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Observations on Weight Loss

Old 03-10-19, 04:32 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The article references a study that seems to explain why every single diet plan has such a miserable rate of success, that there's huge variation in how types of food are metabolized by different people. The surprising part was the indication of just how much differences in the biome correlate with differences in metabolism.

The research into type 2 diabetes in India is pointing towards epigenetic factors playing a big role as well --the nutritional status of your grandmother as she was gestating your mother may actually play a big role in determining your metabolism!

It's why I resorted to trial and error in losing my weight. I just found that much of stuff I was told worked for other people was simply useless for me.
Actually, the article impressed me. Perhaps there's truth in there. Much of the 'diet advice' today takes a global mass approach whereas we're a collection of individuals. Personally, I try to take the "everything in moderation" approach. I'm perhaps, a bit paranoid about salt. We have way too much in most of the processed and restaurant offerings. There was a time in my youth I probably salted ham , now I never add salt and leave it out of recipes that call for it, and they all do.
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Old 03-10-19, 04:59 PM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Come on man. There's like maybe 5 people out there who got morbidly obese from eating too much fruit. Grapes have like 2/3 (and cherries even less) of a calorie per gram. Unless you're eating like a kg per day, you're not over-indulging.
Obviously, you're way more familiar with my eating habits than I am.

Trust me, I have binged on them frequently. I eat primarily apples, oranges, and the occasional pint of berries because they don't lend themselves to eating mass quantities.

I know I didn't get morbidly obese from eating fruit, but it's one of hundreds of decisions I had to make to maintain or lose weight.

Fruit =/= vegetables. Fruit is way more caloric and glycemic. It can definitely be a problem food for some.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:14 PM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Fruit is way more caloric and glycemic. It can definitely be a problem food for some.
Dried fruits are a highly concentrated source of sugar and can be a problem for some people, they are natures candy and taste delicious and can be easily overeaten. I love dried figs, dates and apricots but I use them strategically in my diet, a little goes a long way.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:29 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Dried fruits are a highly concentrated source of sugar and can be a problem for some people, they are natures candy and taste delicious and can be easily overeaten. I love dried figs, dates and apricots but I use them strategically in my diet, a little goes a long way.
Same. I love putting dried apricots in stews.
Diabetics have to be careful about fruit. It's weird that fruit gets lumped into the same category as broccoli. Nutritionally, they are worlds apart.

I do think that people really can stay obese juicing and making smoothies. The calorie counts can be enormous.
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Old 03-10-19, 05:55 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Obviously, you're way more familiar with my eating habits than I am.

Trust me, I have binged on them frequently. I eat primarily apples, oranges, and the occasional pint of berries because they don't lend themselves to eating mass quantities.

I know I didn't get morbidly obese from eating fruit, but it's one of hundreds of decisions I had to make to maintain or lose weight.

Fruit =/= vegetables. Fruit is way more caloric and glycemic. It can definitely be a problem food for some.
I didn't comment on your eating habits. I said, and I stand by it, that virtually no one has become obese from eating fruit.
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Old 03-10-19, 06:13 PM
  #181  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I didn't comment on your eating habits. I said, and I stand by it, that virtually no one has become obese from eating fruit.
Let's do some math here. You said that there's about 2/3 calorie per gram of grape. I find it very easy to eat a pound of grapes, and I don't think it's unusual. The bags they sell in the supermarket contain several pounds. Someone is eating large quantities. A pound of grapes is about 400 calories of fructose. Tell me how that wouldn't be a concern if you're trying to control your weight?

Virtually no one has become obese from eating any single type of food. That's just a meaningless statement.

I do know people who think they don't have to count fruit calories. They don't seem to lose weight.
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Old 03-10-19, 06:23 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by velojym View Post
I'm doing pretty well so far, mostly just logging everything I eat, and ensuring I burn more than I take in. I have a thread on it.
I chose not to pursue any of the fad or specialty diets, preferring to eat normally without over-doing it like I used to, and ramping up my activity to help.

Over 75 lbs down now, and now within the factory rider weight limit on all but one of my bikes.
Originally Posted by winston63 View Post


Congratulations! I lost just shy of 50 pounds 3 years ago doing exactly that - and I've kept my weight down since then by maintaining an awareness of the amount of calories I consume vs burning. I'm now at an ideal weight and just maintain.

I find it easily sustainable and I'm not denying myself any foods that I want, I just have to factor in the calorie hit if I'm "splurging" on a night out or whatever.

And, for what it's worth, I eat a relative high carb diet. I get that some people find it easier to get into a calorie deficit by reducing carbs, but there's nothing magic about reducing carb consumption: if you eat more than you burn you're gaining weight regardless of macros.

Likewise if you burn more than you consume you'll lose. This is simply physics, no need to make it more complicated than that.
Well done! (and said)
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Old 03-10-19, 09:32 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by winston63 View Post


Congratulations! I lost just shy of 50 pounds 3 years ago doing exactly that - and I've kept my weight down since then by maintaining an awareness of the amount of calories I consume vs burning. I'm now at an ideal weight and just maintain.

I find it easily sustainable and I'm not denying myself any foods that I want, I just have to factor in the calorie hit if I'm "splurging" on a night out or whatever.

And, for what it's worth, I eat a relative high carb diet. I get that some people find it easier to get into a calorie deficit by reducing carbs, but there's nothing magic about reducing carb consumption: if you eat more than you burn you're gaining weight regardless of macros.
You're either not reading the above posts or not understanding them? Its already been stated the hormonal manipulation is the key factor to all diets, and that carbs illicit the greatest hormonal response. I don't know if I'd consider that magical, but I would most certainly consider it the crucial element in keeping your weight under control.

Its also very convenient and easy to over-consume on carbs since they're always so convenient. After all, you can't carry a steak or chicken wing around all day in your pocket, but candy bars are unlimited and literally worry free.

We also don't know what you consider acceptable weight. A lot of overweight people don't consider themselves fat nor would they admit that they overeat. I've also seen people eat enough in one meal that could sustain me for two days. For the record, the best measure is fat percentage. If you can maintain 12% as a male, you're in the top category.
Likewise if you burn more than you consume you'll lose. This is simply physics, no need to make it more complicated than that.
That's a lot easier said than done. If it were that simple there wouldn't be any fat people around.
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Old 03-10-19, 09:43 PM
  #184  
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Yes, some people lose weight on a low carb diet, just like some lost weight on the grapefruit diet. Doesn't mean either are healthy.

Then some people (like me) have no fear of carbs and have never been overweight. Go figure. Carbs aren't the devil some (usually overweight) people make them out to be.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:08 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Let's do some math here. You said that there's about 2/3 calorie per gram of grape. I find it very easy to eat a pound of grapes, and I don't think it's unusual. The bags they sell in the supermarket contain several pounds. Someone is eating large quantities. A pound of grapes is about 400 calories of fructose. Tell me how that wouldn't be a concern if you're trying to control your weight?

Virtually no one has become obese from eating any single type of food. That's just a meaningless statement.

I do know people who think they don't have to count fruit calories. They don't seem to lose weight.
A pound of potato chips has about 2000 calories. If the worst thing someone is doing is taking in ~300 (not 400) calories from a pound of grapes, then I'm not too worried about them becoming fat.

And yes, someone sitting down and eating a pound of grapes at once is pretty unusual. Whereas someone having 2 beers (roughly the same number of calories) is very common. Or, a bottle of coke. Or, a medium fries at McDonald's. Or, a chocolate bar.

At this point, it's pretty clear that your arguing just for the sake of it.
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Old 03-11-19, 08:52 AM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Estimation, based on self-reporting of eating habits. Folks, this study is more psychology than nutrition.
And yet other studies showing similar results keep coming.

New research links low-carb diets like Keto and Atkins with AFib and lower life expectancy. Here’s why many heart doctors also don’t recommend going low-carb.

Plus, the World Health Organization also recommends eating more fiber — found in carb-happy whole grain cereals, pasta and bread, as well as nuts — to reduce the risk of heart disease and early death. “Here we have got very strong evidence that a high-fiber diet, which for the majority of people is at least high-ish in carbohydrates, has an enormous protective effect — a wide range of diseases including diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer benefit from a high-carbohydrate diet,” reads the report, which suggests that people eat 25 grams to 29 grams of fiber a day. (Most people across the world get less than 20 grams.) And those who hit the fiber requirements saw a 15% to 30% reduction in deaths from all causes.
By the way, animal sourced foods contain ZERO fiber.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...rbs-2019-03-07
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Old 03-11-19, 09:38 AM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
A pound of potato chips has about 2000 calories. If the worst thing someone is doing is taking in ~300 (not 400) calories from a pound of grapes, then I'm not too worried about them becoming fat.

And yes, someone sitting down and eating a pound of grapes at once is pretty unusual. Whereas someone having 2 beers (roughly the same number of calories) is very common. Or, a bottle of coke. Or, a medium fries at McDonald's. Or, a chocolate bar.

At this point, it's pretty clear that your arguing just for the sake of it.

No, I'm arguing because you seem to think that the test is whether you "worry" about other people's habits.

I know from experience that I am capable of taking in very large amounts of calories from fruit. I know other people who do this as well It really isn't difficult at all, and the body metabolizes the fructose in it quite efficiently.

I agree that blanket advice for everyone not to eat fruit is stupid, but so is telling people that fruit isn't ever a problem.

Good to know I don't need to worry about anything less caloric than a pound of potato chips. That's a relief. Guess I'll eat half a loaf of white bread now.

BTW, if it is about 300 calories, that's about 2 bottles of Coke, and guess what the calories in Coke are from. Fructose, mostly.
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Old 03-11-19, 12:08 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
No, I'm arguing because you seem to think that the test is whether you "worry" about other people's habits.

I know from experience that I am capable of taking in very large amounts of calories from fruit. I know other people who do this as well It really isn't difficult at all, and the body metabolizes the fructose in it quite efficiently.

I agree that blanket advice for everyone not to eat fruit is stupid, but so is telling people that fruit isn't ever a problem.

Good to know I don't need to worry about anything less caloric than a pound of potato chips. That's a relief. Guess I'll eat half a loaf of white bread now.

BTW, if it is about 300 calories, that's about 2 bottles of Coke, and guess what the calories in Coke are from. Fructose, mostly.
Yep, arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm done with this unless you actually have something valuable/constructive to say.
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Old 03-11-19, 12:35 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
And yet other studies showing similar results keep coming.

New research links low-carb diets like Keto and Atkins with AFib and lower life expectancy. Here’s why many heart doctors also don’t recommend going low-carb.
I've always been suspicious that keto diets and the like could carry some long term health risks, but I suspect that obesity is far more dangerous and the simple act of losing weight is going to be a benefit even if the diet isn't all that great.

That said, at this point the evidence certainly suggests that the healthiest diets are quite high carb with reduced meat consumption and lots of fiber, traits shared by both blue zone and Mediterranean diets.

Anyway, I don't really worry about this all that much except to note that I have no problem keeping my weight down with a higher carb diet. I think fiber is the key for me, as I find high fiber foods more satiating than high fat or protein options.
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Old 03-11-19, 12:39 PM
  #190  
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Cut The Carbs

I see there's a lot of discussion here about fad diets, etc. But, there are a lot of foods that cause inflammation in your body which leads to water retention, feeling crappy, disease and worse. I lost 45 pounds in the last three years by cutting gluten and all grains, curtailing dairy (read "The China Study" for that), stopping legumes and eating a TON of veggies...roasted, sautéed and raw. Drinking lots of water. I feel amazing. Almost weigh what I weighed in high school.

I cycle 5-6 times a week for around 10-12 miles--which I know is not a huge amount, but, for me, too much exercise means too much inflammation. *It's essential for weight loss.

I do have an autoimmune disease which has been almost completely controlled by my diet change and weight loss. *Let me point out a major chef who ALSO is cycle-crazy--Seamus Mullen. *Has two NYC restaurants and was diagnosed with RA about 12 years ago. *He lost 70 pounds. *His "Real Food Heals" is just an outstanding cookbook. *I have 150 cookbooks and this is my go-to book more than any of the others. *It's a sensible way to eat. And his recipes are easy without being super gourmet--great salads, lamb, fish. He leads "Chef on Wheels" bike tours and gets together with a bunch of chefs from chefscycle.org to raise money each year for No Kid Hungry. He's on Instagram.

Also, currently reading "How To Be Well", by Frank Lipman, MD. Another great book is "Brain Food," *by Lisa Mosconi, PhD, which details the relationship between food and the brain at a time when Alzheimers continues to climb.

If you are trying to lose weight, do lots of research. *Before I found the way of eating that works for me, I tried everything--vegan, vegetarian, macrobiotics--before I found the right diet. But, be aware that changing the diet and getting results often takes months before there are solid results---3-6 months. *
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Old 03-11-19, 12:43 PM
  #191  
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Agreed, the best diet in the world is no good if your body does not respond favorably to it. A scale (or at least paying attention to how your clothes fit) knowing what works for you, and common sense are all essentials.

I do think people tend to make this process much more complicated that it really is, leading to confusion, which leads to frustration and apathy, which leads to eventually returning to the very habits that caused the obesity to begin with.

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Old 03-11-19, 01:40 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Agreed, the best diet in the world is no good if your body does not respond favorably to it. A scale (or at least paying attention to how your clothes fit) knowing what works for you, and common sense are all essentials.

I do think people tend to make this process much more complicated that it really is, leading to confusion, which leads to frustration and apathy, which leads to eventually returning to the very habits that caused the obesity to begin with.

When I had a lot of weight to lose, I found that weighing myself daily really helped. I learned not to freak out about random one day fluctuations and pay more attention to a trend line, and this allowed me to adjust my eating over time to maintain a slow and steady weight loss.

One of the things that makes it more complicated is listening to other people's advice. Almost all of it is contradictory from person to person. When you realize that most people are basing their advice off of their own or someone else's experience, you can understand why this happens if metabolisms vary so much from person to person.

BTW, fun google parlor game. Name any food and google to see if anyone has a website telling you not to eat it. I've found that most foods that people actually eat have such websites.
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Old 03-11-19, 01:47 PM
  #193  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
And yet other studies showing similar results keep coming.

New research links low-carb diets like Keto and Atkins with AFib and lower life expectancy. Here’s why many heart doctors also don’t recommend going low-carb.



By the way, animal sourced foods contain ZERO fiber.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...rbs-2019-03-07

It is, however, not that hard to keep low carb/high fiber. Lots of cabbage-family vegetables will do it. Not a big fan of kale, though, but I love cauliflower, brussels sprouts and cabbage.
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Old 03-11-19, 06:02 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post

By the way, animal sourced foods contain ZERO fiber.

That doesn't mean they should be avoided...It's very easy to combine high fibre plant foods with animal sourced foods for a healthy balanced meal...Personally I follow a high-carb style of eating and get plenty of fibre but I also eat animal products daily in moderation. Right now my daily diet is about 70% plant foods and about 30% animal products, and one day per week I go 100% plant foods... It's important to consume animal products because they contain certain nutrients which 100% vegetarian diets lack. I am not into taking supplements so I try to get everything I need from real food.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:08 PM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Dried fruits are a highly concentrated source of sugar and can be a problem for some people, they are natures candy and taste delicious and can be easily overeaten. I love dried figs, dates and apricots but I use them strategically in my diet, a little goes a long way.
Absolutely true. However, fruit even in dried form (concentrated sugar) does come with its own built-in limiting factor. For one, they have to be chewed quite a bit which overcomes the most prominent supporting factors of over-consuming carbs: refined carbs require little to no chewing. Once you jaw muscles start to tire you're going to stop.

There's also the post-physiological effects of consuming too much dried fruit, which would make most people very uncomfortable. You may get that bowl of prunes down the first day, but I guarantee you won't be tempted to gorge on another anytime soon.

Its juices (another unnatural state) where you really need to place concern. Since in that state, the carbs pose the same potential as any other sugary drink with an unlimited potential to consume and add calories quickly.
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Yes, some people lose weight on a low carb diet, just like some lost weight on the grapefruit diet. Doesn't mean either are healthy.

Then some people (like me) have no fear of carbs and have never been overweight. Go figure. Carbs aren't the devil some (usually overweight) people make them out to be.
That's the same as saying "money is the root of all evil." Rather, its the "love" of money (the part frequently taken for granted) that makes the statement true. I also couldn't help but notice the overweight obfuscate. Not that I'm making any direct implications, but overweight does not necessarily mean not over-fat.
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Agreed, the best diet in the world is no good if your body does not respond favorably to it. A scale (or at least paying attention to how your clothes fit) knowing what works for you, and common sense are all essentials.

I do think people tend to make this process much more complicated that it really is, leading to confusion, which leads to frustration and apathy, which leads to eventually returning to the very habits that caused the obesity to begin with.
Well, not exactly. A scale is a "dumb" measure. So while you can see a weight increase/decrease, you don't know where the +/- pounds are caused by. Also, eating habits take a lot of observation and planing. So most people don't know (or typically ignore) what's good for them.

Last edited by KraneXL; 03-12-19 at 06:51 AM.
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Old 03-11-19, 07:57 PM
  #196  
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It's important not to split hairs.

Ultimately weight bearing exercises are more beneficial in the long run for bone health and muscle mass. Aerobic exercise is good too but not a substitute for weight bearing.

In my case, I like to eat big and am not big on memorizing rules for eating. I know how to eat properly but have gotten away from proper exercise.
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Old 03-11-19, 08:04 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by vicavale View Post
I see there's a lot of discussion here about fad diets, etc. But, there are a lot of foods that cause inflammation in your body which leads to water retention, feeling crappy, disease and worse. I lost 45 pounds in the last three years by cutting gluten and all grains, curtailing dairy (read "The China Study" for that), stopping legumes and eating a TON of veggies...roasted, sautéed and raw. Drinking lots of water. I feel amazing. Almost weigh what I weighed in high school.

I cycle 5-6 times a week for around 10-12 miles--which I know is not a huge amount, but, for me, too much exercise means too much inflammation. *It's essential for weight loss.

I do have an autoimmune disease which has been almost completely controlled by my diet change and weight loss. *Let me point out a major chef who ALSO is cycle-crazy--Seamus Mullen. *Has two NYC restaurants and was diagnosed with RA about 12 years ago. *He lost 70 pounds. *His "Real Food Heals" is just an outstanding cookbook. *I have 150 cookbooks and this is my go-to book more than any of the others. *It's a sensible way to eat. And his recipes are easy without being super gourmet--great salads, lamb, fish. He leads "Chef on Wheels" bike tours and gets together with a bunch of chefs from chefscycle.org to raise money each year for No Kid Hungry. He's on Instagram.

Also, currently reading "How To Be Well", by Frank Lipman, MD. Another great book is "Brain Food," *by Lisa Mosconi, PhD, which details the relationship between food and the brain at a time when Alzheimers continues to climb.

If you are trying to lose weight, do lots of research. *Before I found the way of eating that works for me, I tried everything--vegan, vegetarian, macrobiotics--before I found the right diet. But, be aware that changing the diet and getting results often takes months before there are solid results---3-6 months. *
Pretty brave of you to jump in this thread with your very first post on the board. I like that!
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Old 03-11-19, 11:25 PM
  #198  
vicavale
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Pretty brave of you to jump in this thread with your very first post on the board. I like that!
Chuckling...thank you! What a great group!

I LOVE my bike!!
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Old 03-12-19, 05:02 AM
  #199  
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[QUOTE=KraneXL;20834130]


Coleslaw is great! Also, cabbage is pretty much all over Asian food, especially Chinese.

Nutritionally, cabbage family really can't be beat if you're trying to get lots of micronutrients and fiber without much calories. I literally eat cole slaw by the pound, just being careful to keep the dressing low-fat and non-sugared.

​​​​Disagreed with you about prunes above-- they are actually quite easy to chew, and I can eat a very large amount without ill effects. I mention this because it's a food I had to stop buying because it lends itself too well to a post-workout binge. There's lots of reasons why dried prunes are associated with old people, they can almost be gummed. I suspect people vary wildly in how they react to eating large quantities of fiber. I think that article someone linked above suggests that gut biome is a huge variable, so it makes sense that some foods that make some people uncomfortable are just fine for others. I get pretty uncomfortable on anything but a very high-fiber diet, and have been that way all my life.

Might be interesting to discuss how climate affects our weight loss/maintenance strategies. In the summer, I almost have to make an effort to not lose too much weight because I'm burning so many calories biking. In the winter, when I'm pretty much confined to the gym, I have to be careful not to put too many pounds on.
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Old 03-12-19, 06:03 AM
  #200  
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This thread is about cycling and weight loss. Its moving towards shaming and insults. Enough please.
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