Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Why don't more high-end locks use combinations?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Why don't more high-end locks use combinations?

Old 04-04-19, 02:34 PM
  #1  
MEversbergII
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MEversbergII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
Posts: 1,262

Bikes: Current: Origami Crane 8, Trek 1200 Former: 2012 Schwinn Trailway

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Why don't more high-end locks use combinations?

So I am in the process of picking high-security locks for my wife and I and I realized that none of the top choices (the Abus Granit X Plus, New York Standard, and the Fahgettaboudit) use combos. While I get that cutting is evidently functionally impossible and require angle grinding), I just saw someone on Youtube pick a Fahgettaboudit in about 5 minutes. With that in mind, why don't these super-strong locks have something to better prevent picking? The video in question had the picker say that the Fahgettaboudit (my sample size of 1) didn't even have "false" parts to further delay pick time, which he claimed would have made a difference. Is it that combinations are actually inherently easier to pick than keys? I know I have certainly used the "tug and test" method on some old cable locks years ago, but that was hit-or-miss based on the cable and not exactly quick.

I suspect that with the way I plan to lock up, picking is probably pretty unlikely, but it did have me thinking - why not combos?

M.
MEversbergII is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 02:48 PM
  #2  
General Geoff
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
Posts: 780

Bikes: 2018 Lynskey Cooper CX; 2007 Cannondale F4

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 368 Post(s)
Liked 155 Times in 64 Posts
Is it that combinations are actually inherently easier to pick than keys?
Yes. Nearly all combination locks are very easily picked, shimmed, and/or bypassed.
General Geoff is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 02:54 PM
  #3  
base2 
Doesn't brain good.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,101

Bikes: 5 good ones, and the occasional project.

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1119 Post(s)
Liked 779 Times in 461 Posts
Because a key is a thing you own & can be controlled.
A combinatio is a thing you know & can be learned. Learned things can be shared or figured out easily.
base2 is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 02:54 PM
  #4  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,918
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15974 Post(s)
Liked 3,297 Times in 2,450 Posts
I think some companies have tried "Smart Locks". I don't know how successful they have been though. Electronics out in the elements? Risk of breaking them?

I do have a combo U-Lock, so they do exist, but you're right, they are not being produced with the most secure locks.

There should be enough history now to make locks very hard to pick.

Many locks that allow themselves to be closed while locked are susceptible to the coke-can attack (although house door locks have an extra pin to prevent that attack).

I do have a cheap combo cable lock, 4 tumblers, that has no false gates, and can be picked in seconds. But, it should be easy enough to build false gates into the tumblers to make a similar rotary picking very difficult.

Perhaps attacking the combination tumblers makes for a weaker lock?
CliffordK is online now  
Old 04-04-19, 03:00 PM
  #5  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,918
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15974 Post(s)
Liked 3,297 Times in 2,450 Posts
Originally Posted by base2 View Post
Because a key is a thing you own & can be controlled.
A combinatio is a thing you know & can be learned. Learned things can be shared or figured out easily.
Possibly.

But, when I got my bike stolen in High School, it was because I had lost the key somewhere near the lock.

In the last year or two, I've lost my key a couple of times, thankfully recovered and returned to me without taking the bike.

I did have an ex-acquaintance shoulder-surf, steal my bank card PIN, then steal the bank card. Since then, I've had a moderately more complex PIN, and been more selective with friends.
CliffordK is online now  
Old 04-04-19, 03:12 PM
  #6  
ChuteTheMall
Fred
 
ChuteTheMall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 52

Bikes: '08 Trek FX3, '89 Novara Pondorosa, '96 Trek 2200

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I've lost keys, but I haven't yet lost my mind. I'd prefer a combo.

I notice safes use combinations, and cabinets generally use keyed padlocks.
ChuteTheMall is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 03:14 PM
  #7  
base2 
Doesn't brain good.
 
base2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,101

Bikes: 5 good ones, and the occasional project.

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1119 Post(s)
Liked 779 Times in 461 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Possibly.

But, when I got my bike stolen in High School, it was because I had lost the key somewhere near the lock.

In the last year or two, I've lost my key a couple of times, thankfully recovered and returned to me without taking the bike.

I did have an ex-acquaintance shoulder-surf, steal my bank card PIN, then steal the bank card. Since then, I've had a moderately more complex PIN, and been more selective with friends.
Well, If you lost the key, it's hard to argue you didn't gave up interest in owning it. Effectivly leaving ownership to whoever was clever enough to solve the mystery. It's the same with combinations. The key was the combination. As soon as exploited, nothing is securable.

It's pretty crappy though to have a locked, but insecure bike walk off, though. I had my car broken into. The cop refused to do anything because it wasn't locked. So essentially the cop argued I left the contents available & free to anyone passing by on the street, therefore since I did not exert ownership the items weren't stolen...I think he just didn't want to do paperwork.

I guess the moral of the story, locks & security are different things. Keys are more secure.
base2 is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 04:07 PM
  #8  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 196 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4388 Post(s)
Liked 2,429 Times in 1,577 Posts
The Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube has cracked every lock he's encountered so far (as of the last time I checked, a month or so ago). But he'll admit thieves who are serious about stealing bikes will use cutting tools, not lock picks or attempts to figure out a combination. He's had a couple of locks damage his hydraulic cutter, but I don't think he's used a grinder on any of his demo videos.

So, key lock, combination, weld the lock shut... probably doesn't matter to serious thieves. Since combination locks probably give the same actual security as key locks -- a deterrent to opportunists, and little more -- I suppose the lock makers might as well offer both.
canklecat is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 04:15 PM
  #9  
AndreyT
Senior Member
 
AndreyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 402
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 32 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
The Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube has cracked every lock he's encountered so far (as of the last time I checked, a month or so ago).
Not the Bowley.
AndreyT is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 04:27 PM
  #10  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,223

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 196 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4388 Post(s)
Liked 2,429 Times in 1,577 Posts
Originally Posted by AndreyT View Post
Not the Bowley.
Ah, that should be interesting. I'll watch that video later.

I've chosen specific U-locks based on his videos. Not that they're invincible, just difficult to open for anyone other than an expert and would require a fairly hefty and conspicuous bolt cutter to defeat. Good enough for my purposes.

Heck, I've even used a cable and lock for my bicycles and motorcycles and never had one stolen, even though a kid with a pair of heavy duty Fiskar scissors or those emergency medical scissors that can cut pennies could probably cut those cables in a few minutes.
canklecat is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 04:45 PM
  #11  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,334 Times in 842 Posts
Do You Make any?

No lock manufacturer reads this forum , so we who sit in the bleachers guess..

and Opine..









...

Last edited by fietsbob; 04-05-19 at 09:29 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 04:57 PM
  #12  
MEversbergII
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MEversbergII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
Posts: 1,262

Bikes: Current: Origami Crane 8, Trek 1200 Former: 2012 Schwinn Trailway

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
The Lock Picking Lawyer on YouTube has cracked every lock he's encountered so far (as of the last time I checked, a month or so ago). But he'll admit thieves who are serious about stealing bikes will use cutting tools, not lock picks or attempts to figure out a combination. He's had a couple of locks damage his hydraulic cutter, but I don't think he's used a grinder on any of his demo videos.

So, key lock, combination, weld the lock shut... probably doesn't matter to serious thieves. Since combination locks probably give the same actual security as key locks -- a deterrent to opportunists, and little more -- I suppose the lock makers might as well offer both.
Yeah, that's the guy. As the Kryptonite locks were what I was looking at buying, I watched his video on the Fahgetaboutit.

Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Ah, that should be interesting. I'll watch that video later.

I've chosen specific U-locks based on his videos. Not that they're invincible, just difficult to open for anyone other than an expert and would require a fairly hefty and conspicuous bolt cutter to defeat. Good enough for my purposes.

Heck, I've even used a cable and lock for my bicycles and motorcycles and never had one stolen, even though a kid with a pair of heavy duty Fiskar scissors or those emergency medical scissors that can cut pennies could probably cut those cables in a few minutes.
I also exclusively used a cable lock in my neck of the woods, though I'm planning on using these locks in a city. I suspect the being in public part will play a large role of it, but the more I know and can anticipate, the better.

Next step: Split hairs on which exact lock I want, because that's just how I am.

M.
MEversbergII is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 05:13 PM
  #13  
PaulRivers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 6,429
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 35 Posts
There's some sort of claim that combination locks are easier to break into vs key locks, and so (annoyingly) they only offer combo locks on lower end models. I find it much easier to set combo locks to the same combination then remember 4 digits, than I do to avoid misplacing a physical key.

I have had an issue with one combination lock I had though...put in the right combination, in the winter, it wouldn't open. I spent about 15 minutes trying it every way and while the numbers rolled fine it just wouldn't open. Put the combination in forward, backwards, upside down, etc, nothing. Had to get an Uber to get back to my car. I drove back...tried it one last time...this time it opened. Threw out the lock when I got home.

But according to my research this does happen sometimes with key locks as well so...ya know. I wish they made a more reliable and higher quality combo lock.
PaulRivers is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 06:56 PM
  #14  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,918
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15974 Post(s)
Liked 3,297 Times in 2,450 Posts
Originally Posted by AndreyT View Post
Not the Bowley.
https://www.bowleylockcompany.com/



Most interesting lock.

Just don't lock yourself out of your house, and hope a locksmith will be able to get you in without destroying something.

No big bike U-Lock.

However, their padlock is bigger than it looks in the photos, and would likely pair well with the hardened bike security chains.

Good point, however, that a thief may be less concerned with finesse than breaking the lock, and may go straight to the croppers or the grinder (of course, drawing attention to themselves, if that really matters).
CliffordK is online now  
Old 04-04-19, 07:42 PM
  #15  
ColonelSanders
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130

Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
Yeah, that's the guy. As the Kryptonite locks were what I was looking at buying, I watched his video on the Fahgetaboutit.



I also exclusively used a cable lock in my neck of the woods, though I'm planning on using these locks in a city. I suspect the being in public part will play a large role of it, but the more I know and can anticipate, the better.

Next step: Split hairs on which exact lock I want, because that's just how I am.

M.

Get the Abus Granit X plus 540.


Bolt cutters can't get through it and more importantly, the locking mechanism is a quality one that will last for years and years and not get "stuck" on you.


When mated up to the ABUS U-Clamp for EaZy KF & ABUS EaZy KF KLICKfix-Mount, it is such a great and convenient system.


This mob are actually selling the Abus Granit X plus 540 with the mounting system, for a very competitive total price.


https://www.bike-components.de/en/AB...Holder-p37822/
ColonelSanders is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 08:59 PM
  #16  
MEversbergII
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MEversbergII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
Posts: 1,262

Bikes: Current: Origami Crane 8, Trek 1200 Former: 2012 Schwinn Trailway

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I saw his video on that - it was quite something. I am not, say, super interested in locks as a hobby, but that was an interesting mechanism. Huge lock body, too!

Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
Get the Abus Granit X plus 540.


Bolt cutters can't get through it and more importantly, the locking mechanism is a quality one that will last for years and years and not get "stuck" on you.


When mated up to the ABUS U-Clamp for EaZy KF & ABUS EaZy KF KLICKfix-Mount, it is such a great and convenient system.


This mob are actually selling the Abus Granit X plus 540 with the mounting system, for a very competitive total price.


https://www.bike-components.de/en/AB...Holder-p37822/
Cheers; it seems like it and the two Kryptonite locks are pretty much on the same level. Prices are comparable, too. The Kryptonite locks - especially the Faghetaboutit seem to be thicker - I don't know that the square section is anything more than marketing on the Abus - but both seem like they're over the threshold where you need to start using angle grinders. Does that Abus have an actual reputation for having a less potentially "sticky" lock than the Kryptonite one? I need to buy at least two anyways (one for me, one for my wife), so the bigger deciding factor is how the bikes themselves measure I suppose. For sure, nothing stops me from getting all three - the weight doesn't matter much as my plan is to strap them to the rear rack anyways (or at least one - 5lbs in a backpack is basically nothing when you're riding, and they're small wheel folders anyways so I'm not exactly high speed low drag to begin with). One lock for each to secure the frame to the post in question, plus the third one to lock the bikes themselves together.

I have also noticed that wheel locks seem to have increased in popularity as a secondary lock type - something big and strong to secure the actual bike to something like a post, and a wheel lock to make them do a bit more work before riding off with the thing. Or maybe they'll move on to another one. Makes me wonder if I could mount one on my folder - I've long though those were pretty neat, even if they weren't really all that practical.

M.
MEversbergII is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 09:38 PM
  #17  
ColonelSanders
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130

Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
Cheers; it seems like it and the two Kryptonite locks are pretty much on the same level. Prices are comparable, too. The Kryptonite locks - especially the Faghetaboutit seem to be thicker - I don't know that the square section is anything more than marketing on the Abus - but both seem like they're over the threshold where you need to start using angle grinders.
On an ounce for ounce basis, Abus appears to use a higher/tougher grade of steel than Kryptonite, so they don't need to use as much of it, for comparable results.


When it comes to using an angle grinder, I've seen different reports/reviews showing in some instances the Abus takes longer to cut through and in others the Kryptonite takes longer, but they definitely are the two leading brands for how long it takes an angle grinder to get through a U-lock.


Does that Abus have an actual reputation for having a less potentially "sticky" lock than the Kryptonite one?
Yes.


If Abus didn't exist, I would be happy to buy Kryptonite's U-locks instead, but as long as Abus exists, I will be getting their stuff as I am confident I will have less issues, and in fact literally no issues whatsoever.


I'm not a weight weenie, but the 300mm Abus Granit X 540 is lighter than the 150mm Fageddabouit, and the extra length has come in handy so many times for me.
ColonelSanders is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 09:51 PM
  #18  
MEversbergII
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
MEversbergII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Lexington Park, Maryland
Posts: 1,262

Bikes: Current: Origami Crane 8, Trek 1200 Former: 2012 Schwinn Trailway

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked 22 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by ColonelSanders View Post
On an ounce for ounce basis, Abus appears to use a higher/tougher grade of steel than Kryptonite, so they don't need to use as much of it, for comparable results.


When it comes to using an angle grinder, I've seen different reports/reviews showing in some instances the Abus takes longer to cut through and in others the Kryptonite takes longer, but they definitely are the two leading brands for how long it takes an angle grinder to get through a U-lock.


Yes.


If Abus didn't exist, I would be happy to buy Kryptonite's U-locks instead, but as long as Abus exists, I will be getting their stuff as I am confident I will have less issues, and in fact literally no issues whatsoever.


I'm not a weight weenie, but the 300mm Abus Granit X 540 is lighter than the 150mm Fageddabouit, and the extra length has come in handy so many times for me.
Cheers; length is an issue, especially as I'm wondering about locking the bikes shut in the folded position on occasion (cable would do, sure, but what about a ULock?). Downside to the extra length, though, is jacks - takes more to fill the space. Might not actually be realistic, though.

M.
MEversbergII is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 10:11 PM
  #19  
ColonelSanders
Banned.
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vegemite Island
Posts: 4,130

Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1916 Post(s)
Liked 307 Times in 216 Posts
Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
Cheers; length is an issue, especially as I'm wondering about locking the bikes shut in the folded position on occasion (cable would do, sure, but what about a ULock?). Downside to the extra length, though, is jacks - takes more to fill the space. Might not actually be realistic, though.

M.

How much space does a jack need?


They can't brace against the frame(or they would destroy the frame), so I presume they would have to brace against one of the sides of the U-lock, but there is only 4.25" of space internally between the sides of the Abus X-540.
ColonelSanders is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 10:54 PM
  #20  
Gresp15C
Senior Member
 
Gresp15C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,766
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1017 Post(s)
Liked 588 Times in 381 Posts
I prefer combination locks. I'm skeptical about lock picking, and I suspect that outside of extreme environments like certain urban areas, bike locking is mainly a form of security theater. Thieves are probably a lot less likely to attempt picking a lock, than to look for a bike that's been left unsecured by mistake, or just cutting the lock.

If a bike thief is like a predatory animal, then they're running a risk/benefit analysis in their subconscious brain. The risk is getting caught or paying an opportunity cost if there is a better bike to steal. The benefit is the value of what they can fence. I make sure there's a better bike to steal.
Gresp15C is offline  
Old 04-04-19, 11:16 PM
  #21  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 26,918
Mentioned: 213 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15974 Post(s)
Liked 3,297 Times in 2,450 Posts
Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
I don't know that the square section is anything more than marketing on the Abus - but both seem like they're over the threshold where you need to start using angle grinders.
For security chains, the square cross-section is supposed to be much harder for bolt cutters to get a bite into. I presume the same is for the U-Lock shackles.

I suppose that translates to a lighter lock for the same price.
Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
the weight doesn't matter much as my plan is to strap them to the rear rack anyways (or at least one - 5lbs in a backpack is basically nothing when you're riding,
Not a lot, but in many cases, my Kryptonite NY lock will about double the weight of my pack or panniers. And, yes, I'm pretty sure I can feel it riding.

I'm seeing a few notes about the Abus Granite 540 which is apparently slightly lighter than the competition.

Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
I have also noticed that wheel locks seem to have increased in popularity as a secondary lock type - something big and strong to secure the actual bike to something like a post, and a wheel lock to make them do a bit more work before riding off with the thing.
Those wheel locks were popular in Italy in the 1980's. I think the new ones are stronger. I don't think I've seen them in use here in the USA. But, they certainly would be good for a quick stop, or perhaps as a secondary lock. Or, a lock + cable.
CliffordK is online now  
Old 04-05-19, 08:07 AM
  #22  
Mitkraft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked 10 Times in 9 Posts
The problem with combo locks is the number of combinations. The number of possible combos is basically the counting numbers (including all zeroes) so a 3 digit lock has only 1000 combos and a 4 digit lock only has 10000. That may sound like a lot but I’ve opened many 3 digit combination locks (brief cases, 2nd hand buys etc) just by just by starting at 000 and working my way up. It doesn’t take that long so I imagine even at 10 times as long the 4 digit combos would not be much security for a bike left for a long time.
Mitkraft is offline  
Old 04-05-19, 09:26 AM
  #23  
fietsbob
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,599

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,334 Times in 842 Posts
Abus bordo combination bike lock 9 of 15 ...

4 dials ..

Those rated 10 & 15 use keys ..


Last edited by fietsbob; 04-05-19 at 09:32 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 04-07-19, 01:07 PM
  #24  
PaulRivers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 6,429
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 537 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by Mitkraft View Post
The problem with combo locks is the number of combinations. The number of possible combos is basically the counting numbers (including all zeroes) so a 3 digit lock has only 1000 combos and a 4 digit lock only has 10000. That may sound like a lot but Iíve opened many 3 digit combination locks (brief cases, 2nd hand buys etc) just by just by starting at 000 and working my way up. It doesnít take that long so I imagine even at 10 times as long the 4 digit combos would not be much security for a bike left for a long time.
In theory, but in practice bike thieves aren't spending hours slowly working away all the possible combinations. They just cut the lock.

As others have pointed out "the lock picking lawyer" has demonstrated that you can pick the high end key locks in a few minutes if you wanted to. But thieves just cut them instead.
PaulRivers is offline  
Old 04-07-19, 02:06 PM
  #25  
tcs
Palmer
 
tcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7,267

Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12

Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 796 Times in 484 Posts
OP - Squire Hammerhead Combi 230/290, six wheels, rated Sold Secure Silver.

tcs is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.