E bike speed limit on MUP
#1
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
E bike speed limit on MUP
So our city passed a resolution allowing e-bikes on our MUP trail system. This is a good thing in my opinion more people on bikes is always better. They adopted the standard set of rules for the e-bikes. Except they have limited them to a speed of 15mph however the non e-bikes have no speed limits except in a few stretches that go though the really busy parks.
The trail rules in short:
E-bikes are allowed anyplace in the city but class 1 e-bikes only on the trail. Motor size restricted to 750 wats and must only be pedal assist. Max speed of 15mph.
All e-bikes on city streets are allowed with a max speed of 20mph or posted speed limit Standard bike again has no speed limit except for posted speed.
Just wondering if this is standard practice? I didn't like this speed limit regulation but I do understand their reasoning. We are hoping we can at some point get this changed. Our PD do patrol our MUP on bicycles, motorcycles and 4wheelers. They actually enforce laws in the high population areas. Again this is a great thing, they are really good cops that are very friendly and helpful.
FWIW I don't ride an e-bike just a involved cyclist.
The trail rules in short:
E-bikes are allowed anyplace in the city but class 1 e-bikes only on the trail. Motor size restricted to 750 wats and must only be pedal assist. Max speed of 15mph.
All e-bikes on city streets are allowed with a max speed of 20mph or posted speed limit Standard bike again has no speed limit except for posted speed.
Just wondering if this is standard practice? I didn't like this speed limit regulation but I do understand their reasoning. We are hoping we can at some point get this changed. Our PD do patrol our MUP on bicycles, motorcycles and 4wheelers. They actually enforce laws in the high population areas. Again this is a great thing, they are really good cops that are very friendly and helpful.
FWIW I don't ride an e-bike just a involved cyclist.
#2
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
The MUPs in my area have a 15mph speed limit on everything.
So I don't ride them unless i know they are empty.
So I don't ride them unless i know they are empty.
#3
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,487 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Our MUPS don't have any speed limit signs...It's impossible to enforce speed limits on MUPS..
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
So our city passed a resolution allowing e-bikes on our MUP trail system. This is a good thing in my opinion more people on bikes is always better. They adopted the standard set of rules for the e-bikes. Except they have limited them to a speed of 15mph however the non e-bikes have no speed limits except in a few stretches that go though the really busy parks.
MUP's are by definition for multiple modes of usage, many of them not all that fast.
If someone needs an assist bike to enjoy a MUP, it's pretty hard to argue that they also "need" to go faster than a casual Sunday rider.
If someone wants to expend the personal energy to with care pedal faster, that has a redeeming merit that doing it on an electric motorcycle does not.
Pretty clearly there was an effort here to strike a balance between trying to open the MUPs to more users, and trying to preserve the comfort of existing users, especially the non-cyclists. It may not work, but it seems fair and well-intentioned, and makes a clear statement that the path is for exercise and enjoyment, not an electric motorcycle route.
We now have some stretches of bike lane here where the dominant mode is electric delivery motorcycles - going uphill faster than unimpeded traffic in the adjacent car lanes. That's what they're trying not to have your MUP become.
Last edited by UniChris; 04-06-19 at 10:19 AM.
#5
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
they do enforce ours but only in area with high traffic. We have maybe 4 parks that are super busy on weekends and they keep it tight there but usually only on weekends. I avoid the trail on the weekend because of the high traffic but weekdays its pretty free flowing.
#6
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
The restriction just seems to be a useless ordinance I guess. On the west side of our trail there is pretty much 14 miles of open riding where the speeds get a bit higher. Very little foot traffic on the west because its a bit remote. Only the hardcore marathon runners ever get over there so it where a lot people who want to open up a bit go with very little risk to have a family out for a fun ride.
I guess I didn't think of the e-bikeers as people who didn't really want to actually go that fast. That is probably very true. I just think if I ever where given the opportunity to ride an e-road bike I would really want to see what I could do on it.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times
in
363 Posts
It's a developing technology so the rules are evolving too.
How much difference does it make in real life? What's enforcement like? I do a fair amount of riding on various trails and I've never seen any effort at speed enforcement. Maybe if folks on e-assist bikes start cruising 30 MPH or so or are involved in a lot of incidents that will change.
How much difference does it make in real life? What's enforcement like? I do a fair amount of riding on various trails and I've never seen any effort at speed enforcement. Maybe if folks on e-assist bikes start cruising 30 MPH or so or are involved in a lot of incidents that will change.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225
Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times
in
363 Posts
"Impossible" means that nobody has been sufficiently motivated to figure out how to do it yet.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
I think it's more about sending a message about what kind of usage is encouraged and in reassuring existing MUP users, than it is about literal enforcement.
If there are complaints, probably the first thing they do is go out on a nice afternoon with some cones and the bike officer (or as likely a cruiser), park in a fast spot, and wave people down for reminders / warnings.
Making a ticket for 18-in-a-15 stick would probably require something like two cameras and 100 feet of coax, but that's not really the desired tool for keeping behavior reasonable. Making a ticket for 25-in-a-15 stick is a lot easier than making one for 25-in-a-20.
As for seeing what an e-cycle could do, that might be the place for roads. There was a time in history when bicycles and motorcycles diverged, and with modern throttle e-things looking a lot like those early heavy-bike-frame motorcycles, I suspect (hope) we're now on the cusp of a second divergence - electric motorcycles that can keep up with motor traffic on secondary roads make a lot of sense for the segment of the population comfortable operating them. They just need to be treated as the motor vehicles that they are. And when operating at traffic speeds, the safer place to be is in the flow of traffic, rather than coming into sudden conflict when a secondary route meets a primary one at every intersection.
Meanwhile MUPs need to stay a comfortable place for human effort - accessibility measures shouldn't defeat the original purpose.
If there are complaints, probably the first thing they do is go out on a nice afternoon with some cones and the bike officer (or as likely a cruiser), park in a fast spot, and wave people down for reminders / warnings.
Making a ticket for 18-in-a-15 stick would probably require something like two cameras and 100 feet of coax, but that's not really the desired tool for keeping behavior reasonable. Making a ticket for 25-in-a-15 stick is a lot easier than making one for 25-in-a-20.
As for seeing what an e-cycle could do, that might be the place for roads. There was a time in history when bicycles and motorcycles diverged, and with modern throttle e-things looking a lot like those early heavy-bike-frame motorcycles, I suspect (hope) we're now on the cusp of a second divergence - electric motorcycles that can keep up with motor traffic on secondary roads make a lot of sense for the segment of the population comfortable operating them. They just need to be treated as the motor vehicles that they are. And when operating at traffic speeds, the safer place to be is in the flow of traffic, rather than coming into sudden conflict when a secondary route meets a primary one at every intersection.
Meanwhile MUPs need to stay a comfortable place for human effort - accessibility measures shouldn't defeat the original purpose.
Last edited by UniChris; 04-06-19 at 11:33 AM.
#10
Senior Member
Like oldnslow2, speed limits for the MUPs around here are 15 mph for everyone. Faster just isn't safe for the pedestrians on it. Enforcement? I'm sure if there were enough complaints the police would patrol it more for a while.
If you want to go over 15 mph, you should probably be on the roads anyway. You may feel intimidated by cars, but that's what you're doing to the pedestrians right now.
If you want to go over 15 mph, you should probably be on the roads anyway. You may feel intimidated by cars, but that's what you're doing to the pedestrians right now.
#11
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
Like oldnslow2, speed limits for the MUPs around here are 15 mph for everyone. Faster just isn't safe for the pedestrians on it. Enforcement? I'm sure if there were enough complaints the police would patrol it more for a while.
If you want to go over 15 mph, you should probably be on the roads anyway. You may feel intimidated by cars, but that's what you're doing to the pedestrians right now.
If you want to go over 15 mph, you should probably be on the roads anyway. You may feel intimidated by cars, but that's what you're doing to the pedestrians right now.
also a great point of view. I might have been in haste to be concerned about a speed limit issue.
Our law is written that the e-bike may not exceed 25 mph unassisted and 20mph assisted. Not sure if this is an industry standard. I didn't even know there were three classes of e-bikes.
#12
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
Radar is hard to use on cyclist but LIDAR systems work very effectively. Its laser based speed informant. These are the hand held units that police use. Very accurate and effective.
#13
vespertine member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Land of Angora, Turkey
Posts: 2,476
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 687 Post(s)
Liked 220 Times
in
163 Posts
The larger metro areas where I've lived have had 15MPH speed limits on MUPs. Like others have mentioned, this makes things safer for pedestrians, kids, and slower riders, and also sends a message that cyclists wishing to go faster belong on the road.
It strikes me as somewhat odd that the speed limit is not uniformly 15MPH for all MUP users. Perhaps the city planners do not realize that many cyclists are achieving those speeds without electric assist. Given some of the city planning I've witnessed, I suspect something similar in my town.
It strikes me as somewhat odd that the speed limit is not uniformly 15MPH for all MUP users. Perhaps the city planners do not realize that many cyclists are achieving those speeds without electric assist. Given some of the city planning I've witnessed, I suspect something similar in my town.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pasadena, CA
Posts: 4,847
Bikes: Schwinn Varsity
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1931 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
421 Posts
If you had an ebike you would find that the best battery mileage is right around 15 mph. Go 20 mph and the wind resistance hogs the battery.
Maybe you misunderstand why people are riding ebikes. It's not really to go faster, but more about assist for hills, wind resistance...and you enjoy the ride more!
People that get an ebike with a throttle will not last long, as they are not really bikers and will lose interest, hopefully before they hit a car or tree or another person from going too fast.
Maybe you misunderstand why people are riding ebikes. It's not really to go faster, but more about assist for hills, wind resistance...and you enjoy the ride more!
People that get an ebike with a throttle will not last long, as they are not really bikers and will lose interest, hopefully before they hit a car or tree or another person from going too fast.
#15
Senior Member
Not for me worry about
I might get 15 mph downhill down wind
I’d be a proud owner &
frame a bike speeding ticket
I might get 15 mph downhill down wind
I’d be a proud owner &
frame a bike speeding ticket
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Northampton, MA
Posts: 1,909
Bikes: 36" Unicycle, winter knock-around hybrid bike
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 930 Post(s)
Liked 393 Times
in
282 Posts
It strikes me as somewhat odd that the speed limit is not uniformly 15MPH for all MUP users. Perhaps the city planners do not realize that many cyclists are achieving those speeds without electric assist. Given some of the city planning I've witnessed, I suspect something similar in my town.
Conversely the argument for going 20 MPH on an e-bike is mostly getting to work faster. If someone is going to bike commute a distance where those speeds make a real difference, they need a level of commitment to dealing with conditions not typically seen from e-bike purchasers. We've got a guy locally who has been asking question after question about a 30-mile e-bike commute on a combination of a rural MUP with bad pavement, a notorious mud patch, a few miles of bad city streets, and what is apparently the heaviest used recreational path in the nation - but as far as I can tell, he ordered his toy before sampling even a mile of that route on a pedal bike.
#17
52psi
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,133
Bikes: Schwinn Volare ('78); Raleigh Competition GS ('79)
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 800 Times
in
390 Posts
EDIT: Whoops. All three of your posts.
__________________
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
A race bike in any era is a highly personal choice that at its "best" balances the requirements of fit, weight, handling, durability and cost tempered by the willingness to toss it and oneself down the pavement at considerable speed. ~Bandera
#18
Full Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 327
Bikes: Litespeed, O'Brien, Specialized, Fuji
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
9 Posts
Seattle has a test rule allowing class 1 & 2 ebikes on MUPS, but not class 3 (I don't know offhand how to tell the class).
City of Seattle Multi-Use Trails - Parks | seattle.gov
Speed limit is still 15 MPH AFAIK. Many of the trails go through several municipal jurisdictions. Some choose to aggressively enforce the speed limit. Bike or motorcycle cops can sit at a cross street with a speed gun. My brother was ticketed for speeding on the Burke-Gilman in Lake Forest Park. The cop had to ask how to spell "Cervelo" as he wrote the ticket. I've also heard of stop sign enforcement on the trail here.
City of Seattle Multi-Use Trails - Parks | seattle.gov
Speed limit is still 15 MPH AFAIK. Many of the trails go through several municipal jurisdictions. Some choose to aggressively enforce the speed limit. Bike or motorcycle cops can sit at a cross street with a speed gun. My brother was ticketed for speeding on the Burke-Gilman in Lake Forest Park. The cop had to ask how to spell "Cervelo" as he wrote the ticket. I've also heard of stop sign enforcement on the trail here.
#19
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,703
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6063 Post(s)
Liked 4,694 Times
in
3,238 Posts
I don't understand why we call them e-bikes. They are motorcycles. Seems like something wanting to be something it no longer is.
#20
Banned
Rural here, in past couple years hunters got MTB modified with a mid drive motor,
the timber company still considers them bicycles,
and so they are allowed past the locked gate bars across the logging roads ..
Petrol powered bikes are forbidden..
Elk & deer are to be found there ...
the timber company still considers them bicycles,
and so they are allowed past the locked gate bars across the logging roads ..
Petrol powered bikes are forbidden..
Elk & deer are to be found there ...
#21
Palmer
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,556
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, 1982 Stumpjumper, Alex Moulton AM, 2010 Dawes Briercliffe, 2017 Dahon Curl i8, 2021 Motobecane Turino 1x12
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1640 Post(s)
Liked 1,764 Times
in
1,027 Posts
Specialized, Trek & Giant all advertise 'class 3' or 'pedelecs': relatively powerful e-bikes that, according to their marketing verbiage, continue to assist rider effort up to 28mph/45kph.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South shore, L.I., NY
Posts: 6,810
Bikes: Flyxii FR322, Cannondale Topstone, Miyata City Liner, Specialized Chisel, Specialized Epic Evo
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3179 Post(s)
Liked 2,006 Times
in
1,149 Posts
Certainly the Jones Beach path - Wantagh to the beach wants a LOT of postings. Cannot tell you how many times we see hard core roadies hammer on this section when its crowded. Crazy some times.
#23
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Thursday I was heading back on the Bethpage Parkway path and I hear 2 guys yelling for me to get out of their way. They passed me on what looked like a 50lb. e-bike.I got out of the saddle and jumped on the wheel of the 2nd rider. I can see they were trying to drop me but I hung on. One yelled "you think you can keep up with us" but the obvious answer was YES, we were doing 22mph. When we approached the bridge over the SS I made a move and passed both of them. I crossed Linden and they hung a left onto it.
I was pretty tired since I hung with them for 2 miles but I made my point.
They were DICKS.
The section we were on was north of where the casual riders/walkers go. If they continued into the preserve someone would of gotten hurt. Glad they are smart enough to take public roads at that point.
BTW... twice i've seen kids on minibikes on the Bethpage Parkway segment.
I was pretty tired since I hung with them for 2 miles but I made my point.
They were DICKS.
The section we were on was north of where the casual riders/walkers go. If they continued into the preserve someone would of gotten hurt. Glad they are smart enough to take public roads at that point.
BTW... twice i've seen kids on minibikes on the Bethpage Parkway segment.
#24
Senior Member
#25
Heft On Wheels
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 3,124
Bikes: Specialized,Cannondale,Argon 18
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked 560 Times
in
346 Posts
T
It strikes me as somewhat odd that the speed limit is not uniformly 15MPH for all MUP users. Perhaps the city planners do not realize that many cyclists are achieving those speeds without electric assist. Given some of the city planning I've witnessed, I suspect something similar in my town.
It strikes me as somewhat odd that the speed limit is not uniformly 15MPH for all MUP users. Perhaps the city planners do not realize that many cyclists are achieving those speeds without electric assist. Given some of the city planning I've witnessed, I suspect something similar in my town.
FYI:The three classes are defined as follows:
- Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.
- Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
- Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.
- Max wattage for all classes is 750/1 hours power.