Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

The art not being dropped

Old 04-27-19, 01:40 PM
  #1  
CoogansBluff
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 5 Posts
The art of not being dropped

Today there was a group ride that announced two speeds. I chose the faster one, knowing it would be a challenge, but also knowing the other group would be too slow. About 15 miles into the 60-mile ride, I was dropped along with a few others. It was a huge ride, about 60 riders.

I finally settled in with a group of 5 that wasn't keeping up, but faster than the slow group. All was fine, sunny day, had fun, but when I was done, I wasn't really tired. I could've gone another 20 miles at that speed.

Do you think I should try harder to stay with the original pack? I was dropped once, caught up at a stop sign, then dropped again, all in the first 20 miles, but either time, if I had busted it, I could've caught back up. My fear was that the energy exerted would've put me at risk of going bonk for the final 20 miles. I don't have enough experience really to know how I might've responded, but it seems that my ability to recover and to endure is much better than my power & speed.

When riding with a group that's fast for you, do you approach with the attitude that you've got to do absolutely everything you can to stay with the group, and trust that you'll recover in the safety of the pack, or is the writing on the wall if you're struggling to keep up in the first half of a long ride?
CoogansBluff is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 04:19 PM
  #2  
Reynolds 
Passista
 
Reynolds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,674

Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS MontaŮa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 55 Times in 44 Posts
Most times I try to keep with the group. If I can't, too bad, but at least I tried.
Reynolds is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 04:26 PM
  #3  
Juan Foote
LBKA (formerly punkncat)
 
Juan Foote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Jawja
Posts: 3,478

Bikes: Spec Roubaix SL4, GT Traffic 1.0

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 20 Posts
This is an issue that particularly hits home with me.

When I started riding with the local club, every single ride they had was too fast for me. I was ending up having to have a sweep rider come back and save me every single ride. I ended up having negotiation with the club and we created a "slow" ride that I was leading, just for the new riders to join. I ran that ride for a year and even at the end of it wasn't fast enough to fully keep up with the next group. The main advantage was that by doing so I swelled the ranks of the next couple of groups up AND provided for a sweep group to the other rides for about 75% of the route they took.
The following year I was able to step up and join the next group, but even then it was at the understanding that I was going to be riding the back of the pack and not taking turns on the front. I used the draft to stay with that group. It did WONDERS for my physical state and speed. By the next year I was able to lead, pull, and stay at the front of that group, even "guesting" in the next group up from that.

In short....if they are cool with you bringing up the back and drafting to stay in touch, do that and before long you won't have issue getting dropped.
Juan Foote is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 04:27 PM
  #4  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,047

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2297 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Today there was a group ride that announced two speeds. I chose the faster one, knowing it would be a challenge, but also knowing the other group would be too slow. About 15 miles into the 60-mile ride, I was dropped along with a few others. It was a huge ride, about 60 riders.

I finally settled in with a group of 5 that wasn't keeping up, but faster than the slow group. All was fine, sunny day, had fun, but when I was done, I wasn't really tired. I could've gone another 20 miles at that speed.

Do you think I should try harder to stay with the original pack? I was dropped once, caught up at a stop sign, then dropped again, all in the first 20 miles, but either time, if I had busted it, I could've caught back up. My fear was that the energy exerted would've put me at risk of going bonk for the final 20 miles. I don't have enough experience really to know how I might've responded, but it seems that my ability to recover and to endure is much better than my power & speed.

When riding with a group that's fast for you, do you approach with the attitude that you've got to do absolutely everything you can to stay with the group, and trust that you'll recover in the safety of the pack, or is the writing on the wall if you're struggling to keep up in the first half of a long ride?
Depends on whether you want to improve. If you do, try harder next time. Duh.

It's not actually clear from your post whether do, and are just asking us if we care about keeping up either.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 04:29 PM
  #5  
Troul
:D
 
Troul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 1,628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 25 Posts
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
When riding with a group that's fast for you, do you approach with the attitude that you've got to do absolutely everything you can to stay with the group, and trust that you'll recover in the safety of the pack, or is the writing on the wall if you're struggling to keep up in the first half of a long ride?
nine times out of 10, this is how I'd wager the bet. If you've aligned all the stars & for that day your feeling it, make it that one time you exert all that shes got.
Troul is offline  
Likes For Troul:
Old 04-27-19, 05:32 PM
  #6  
BlazingPedals
Senior Member
 
BlazingPedals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Middle of da Mitten
Posts: 11,074

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, homebuilt recumbent

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 966 Post(s)
Liked 70 Times in 52 Posts
When I get dropped, I'll spend the rest of the ride trying to catch back up. Those are my 'best' rides.

Never give up, never surrender.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:11 PM
  #7  
CoogansBluff
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
Depends on whether you want to improve. If you do, try harder next time. Duh.


It's not actually clear from your post whether do, and are just asking us if we care about keeping up either.

Definitely want to improve. Chose to go with the A group for that reason. But it's partly a question of strategy, I think. Trying to stay in a hopelessly fast pace line might wipe you out, leaving you exhausted and coasting the final 20 miles. Sometimes people in the A group get overtaken by the later-departing B group when they do that and fail. Is it better to ride at a more realistic pace while still chasing the group from a growing distance, which also can lead to improvement since that group by definition is faster and you're trying to stay with it? Wondered if more experienced riders might say, ''Do everything to stay in the pace line; you'll recover better than you think, and if you don't, it's still the best way to get better,'' or, ''Know your limitations. A good steady ride that pushes you the whole way is enough.'' Of course, the answer probably lies with me experimenting more with staying with the pace line at all costs. (Not that I get dropped regularly, mind you.)

Last edited by CoogansBluff; 04-27-19 at 08:19 PM.
CoogansBluff is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:24 PM
  #8  
delbiker1 
Senior Member
 
delbiker1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 1,001

Bikes: 2003 Lemond Poprad, 1991 Ochsner steel frame, 2002 Airborne Zeppelin titanium, Schwinn DBX SS aluminum, Orbea MD 40 carbon fiber

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 67 Posts
I sometimes ride with a club near my home. They post a schedule of there rides, which includes the ranking of speed, A(fast), B( medium), and C(slow. They have a rule that nobody gets totally dropped regardless of the speed. I rode one day with what was supposed the be medium, 16 to 18 mph avg., but they was a nucleus of riders that were really fast, 22 mph into the wind. I tried to keep up for a while but knew it was a losing battle. Myself and 2 other riders hooked up and rode together until they had to turn off for home. I did the last 7 or 8 miles solo. I also rode with the slow group once. There were a couple of guys that kept turning up the speed but got reminded but other riders that this was a C group ride. Kind of nice.
delbiker1 is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:38 PM
  #9  
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 41,396

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 188 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6921 Post(s)
Liked 246 Times in 204 Posts
don't fall behind the last guy , blocking the wind resistance ahead of you.. & don't overlap his back wheel ..
fietsbob is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:41 PM
  #10  
gregf83 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 8,879
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 982 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Do you think I should try harder to stay with the original pack? I was dropped once, caught up at a stop sign, then dropped again, all in the first 20 miles, but either time, if I had busted it, I could've caught back up.
Depends why you're getting dropped. Are you falling off on hills? Accelerations out of corners? Inability to hold a wheel without a gap forming? Sometimes it just takes a little practice and learning when to go hard and when you can relax a little.

My fear was that the energy exerted would've put me at risk of going bonk for the final 20 miles. I don't have enough experience really to know how I might've responded, but it seems that my ability to recover and to endure is much better than my power & speed.
I wouldn't worry about bonking. If you've got some miles in your legs you'll likely just get tired and fall off the back rather than bonking. It's not the end of the world to ride solo.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:48 PM
  #11  
rosefarts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 736
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 304 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 27 Posts
Im guilty of pulling too hard or too long.

If if you skip your pulls and sit in, youíll make it longer. Itís a good start. If you canít even sit in the group, yep, itís already over. Donít give up, understand that the minutes of struggle before you fall off is the best training of the week. Occasionally, if you kill yourself to stay there, the group will settle down and you can actually finish with them.
rosefarts is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:51 PM
  #12  
Rogerogeroge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Today there was a group ride that announced two speeds. I chose the faster one, knowing it would be a challenge, but also knowing the other group would be too slow. About 15 miles into the 60-mile ride, I was dropped along with a few others. It was a huge ride, about 60 riders.

I finally settled in with a group of 5 that wasn't keeping up, but faster than the slow group. All was fine, sunny day, had fun, but when I was done, I wasn't really tired. I could've gone another 20 miles at that speed.

Do you think I should try harder to stay with the original pack? I was dropped once, caught up at a stop sign, then dropped again, all in the first 20 miles, but either time, if I had busted it, I could've caught back up. My fear was that the energy exerted would've put me at risk of going bonk for the final 20 miles. I don't have enough experience really to know how I might've responded, but it seems that my ability to recover and to endure is much better than my power & speed.

When riding with a group that's fast for you, do you approach with the attitude that you've got to do absolutely everything you can to stay with the group, and trust that you'll recover in the safety of the pack, or is the writing on the wall if you're struggling to keep up in the first half of a long ride?
Ride smarter. Figure out who the wise ones are. Are there young'uns who don't care if they get split a little and can charge right back to the pack? Or they want to chase every little surge from the group? Are you getting dropped because the wheel you're on is also getting dropped? Find a different wheel! And don't be afraid to sit in and SUCK WHEEL! The wise ones also tend to be smooth and have less drastic accelerations (and deccelerations). Countless times I've seen people in the first 75% of the ride feel they're invincible, but they completely melt in the last 25%.

In just about every sport you should participate with others better than you if you want to get better.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 07:53 PM
  #13  
355Mono
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Once I'm in reasonable shape, I position myself in mid-pack, and let the group do the work. Our group doesn't require everyone to pull if they choose not to. Of course this doesn't help on the climbs. Still need to be realistic about your condition, or be willing to get dropped.
355Mono is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 08:14 PM
  #14  
CoogansBluff
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
Depends why you're getting dropped. Are you falling off on hills? Accelerations out of corners? Inability to hold a wheel without a gap forming? Sometimes it just takes a little practice and learning when to go hard and when you can relax a little.
Falling off hills - Yes. Accelerations out of corners - Needs improvement. Inability to hold a wheel - I do that pretty well. Good tips and food for thought.
CoogansBluff is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 08:14 PM
  #15  
Rogerogeroge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by 355Mono View Post
Once I'm in reasonable shape, I position myself in mid-pack, and let the group do the work. Our group doesn't require everyone to pull if they choose not to. Of course this doesn't help on the climbs. Still need to be realistic about your condition, or be willing to get dropped.
If you're getting dropped on the climbs, a good strategy is to hit the bottom of the climbs at the front of the pack. Lots of times you can gradually drift back and be on the back of the pack when you get over the top.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Likes For Rogerogeroge:
Old 04-27-19, 08:17 PM
  #16  
CoogansBluff
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Rogerogeroge View Post
Ride smarter. Figure out who the wise ones are. Are there young'uns who don't care if they get split a little and can charge right back to the pack? Or they want to chase every little surge from the group? Are you getting dropped because the wheel you're on is also getting dropped? Find a different wheel! And don't be afraid to sit in and SUCK WHEEL! The wise ones also tend to be smooth and have less drastic accelerations (and deccelerations). Countless times I've seen people in the first 75% of the ride feel they're invincible, but they completely melt in the last 25%.
This was a huge group, some 60 riders, and I stayed toward the back, and I do think that made it tougher. Got behind some riders leaving gaps. The accordion effect is harder to manage w/ big groups, and it's felt more harshly in the back. I can definitely get smarter.
CoogansBluff is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 08:20 PM
  #17  
Rogerogeroge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Falling off hills - Yes. Accelerations out of corners - Needs improvement. Inability to hold a wheel - I do that pretty well. Good tips and food for thought.
Yep, accelerating out of corners can be another paint point, and someone not as good can lose 50 meters at every 90 degree turn. A lot of times the problem is cutting the corner correctly and braking excessively, not the acceleration after the apex of the curve. Again, if that's your weakness, hit the curve/intersection at the front of the group as much as possible, so after getting passed by countless others, you're still in the pack.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 08:22 PM
  #18  
Rogerogeroge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
The accordion effect is harder to manage w/ big groups, and it's felt more harshly in the back. I can definitely get smarter.
Bingo. Sometimes it takes less energy to ride at the front and take your turn in the wind than following the pack.
Rogerogeroge is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 08:29 PM
  #19  
dynodonn
Banned.
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: U.S. of A.
Posts: 7,465
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1253 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 23 Posts
When I got dropped by a elderly woman on an English 3 speed with a squeaky chain, a trip to the LBS to purchase a new proper fitting bike did wonders.
dynodonn is offline  
Old 04-27-19, 09:09 PM
  #20  
ThermionicScott 
hungry
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 19,047

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers)

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2297 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 197 Posts
Originally Posted by CoogansBluff View Post
Definitely want to improve. Chose to go with the A group for that reason. But it's partly a question of strategy, I think. Trying to stay in a hopelessly fast pace line might wipe you out, leaving you exhausted and coasting the final 20 miles. Sometimes people in the A group get overtaken by the later-departing B group when they do that and fail. Is it better to ride at a more realistic pace while still chasing the group from a growing distance, which also can lead to improvement since that group by definition is faster and you're trying to stay with it? Wondered if more experienced riders might say, ''Do everything to stay in the pace line; you'll recover better than you think, and if you don't, it's still the best way to get better,'' or, ''Know your limitations. A good steady ride that pushes you the whole way is enough.'' Of course, the answer probably lies with me experimenting more with staying with the pace line at all costs. (Not that I get dropped regularly, mind you.)


You'll have to encounter some exhaustion and push through it to find where your real limitations are. My biggest improvements in cycling came with giving everything I had to keep up with the faster riders and not worrying about where the rest would come from.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Likes For ThermionicScott:
Old 04-27-19, 09:51 PM
  #21  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,018

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times in 49 Posts
Last summer I did a 215k ride. The ride had three groups. Fast. Medium. Slow.

I went with the fast group and hung on by my fingernails for 180k and then I was spun out the end completely gassed. I had ZERO in the tank and dragged my butt to the end. The Wife was waiting for me and afterwards said she had never seen me look so beat.

I'm proud that I hung with that group, but I don't think I would do it again. The ride was not enjoyable for me, although it was neat to see my average speed at the end of the ride.

That said, I agree with the sentiment about going out with the fast group and doing your best you hang on. It's a good way to improve.
NoWhammies is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lsberrios1
Road Cycling
55
06-13-14 06:50 AM
mckeithen
Road Cycling
20
06-07-14 09:38 PM
I_Like_Bike
Road Cycling
11
08-06-10 06:43 AM
ilovetheewind
Road Cycling
3
04-12-10 05:48 AM
ilovetheewind
Road Cycling
8
04-11-10 09:05 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.