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Fewer Riders Announce?

Old 04-29-19, 01:07 PM
  #26  
BlazingPedals
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
They walk to the right, or they walk to the left so that they can see oncoming cyclists, yet assume that they have the right of way. ...
Most MUPs list a traffic heirarchy, and pedestrians DO have the right of way, even if they're not obeying the rules. Or maybe that's why they don't obey the rules - it doesn't matter. If you hit a ped with your bike, you're ALWAYS at fault.

Because of that, I rarely use MUPs. But if you do and give a warning (as the rules also require,) it's just as likely that the ped will jump *into* your path as jump *out* of your path. It's a lose-lose situation; so many cyclists figure it's safer to pass without giving them a chance to jump.
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Old 04-29-19, 01:20 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I announce my presence by voice, loud enough but with calm. I say which side I am passing on and when I go by I always say thank you.
On the MUP I ride here in the DFW area, I also follow this process. Most people either thank me back or give me a friendly wave. There are some, walkers with earbuds in that do not respond to my warning...for those folks, I give a verbal warning, but if there is no response, then I just try to pass carefully on whatever side they are not walking on. Startled a few folks, but maybe they will begin to realize there are others on the MUP besides themselves.
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Old 04-29-19, 05:07 PM
  #28  
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Found this out purely by chance - but have found that something that works far better than a bell...
out of adjustment screeching rim brakes. Toe those things to where they simply wail. It’s such a unusual , impending bad situation sound. Just hang back, squeal, read the scattering, proceed past the obstruction. Extra points for “eyes wide almost died” expression while passing them.
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Old 04-29-19, 05:32 PM
  #29  
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I don't use the bell that often. It's hard to tell what direction they'll move in. Some stop cold. Others move left, others right. Some walk along the middle divider. Others walk on the left, others on the right, some across both lanes. Pedestrians generally do WTF they want to do.

My job is to pass them safely. The trails are incredibly crowded. And I supposedly live a "small" town.
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Old 04-29-19, 06:00 PM
  #30  
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If I'm on the MUP, I try to announce but I have pretty much zero expectation it does any good and is really just mere courtesy. If the rider appears to know what they're doing, it isn't necessary. If the rider appears to be clueless, they're more likely than not to swerve when they look back. It's often safer to just pass and then say good morning/evening as I go by.
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Old 04-29-19, 06:03 PM
  #31  
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Using a bell has never failed me, I had few people thank me for using a bell and slowing down when passing...I don't like cyclists who yell "on your left", all it does is confuse and startle people. My biggest pet peeve is cyclists who pass too close at high rate of speed.
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Old 04-29-19, 10:18 PM
  #32  
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it seems like every year we go through this , all you have to do is RESPECT THE PATH , that means pay attention , you are on a public transit way , its not your path you have to watch out and follow the simple lane rules ...

DO cars beep and honk as they pass each other or even cyclists???? NO they dont , maybe a wave ... so why are cyclist suppose to have a bell to let you know you are in the way , you should not be in the way in the first place ...

half the time if you do call out , they squirrel out and end up in your way any , so what can you really do , stay in your designated lane and dont make any sudden moves without checking behind you , its really simple stuff !!!!
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Old 04-29-19, 10:28 PM
  #33  
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I almost always give an "on your left" announcement. My greatest fear are the runners who hit their turnaround point and do a sudden u-turn to their left. Most prevalent as they reach a street crossing but I've seen the u-turn performed in the middle of nowhere. I go way left if I see headphones.
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Old 04-29-19, 10:42 PM
  #34  
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I've got to say, I announce almost every pass with a "passing on your left" , which translates into many thousands of passes, and I can count on the fingers of one finger the number of times that someone has moved to their left. I've stopped many more people from doing so by announcing. I am very skeptical that the people who claim it causes pedestrians to go the wrong way about "half the time" have announced enough to know what they're talking about.
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Old 04-30-19, 07:40 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by themp View Post
On the weekends our Greenway/MUP is very crowded and lots of people use the whole path walking with dogs, strollers, or whatever. I have stopped announcing my pass if it looks safe(I go slow). If I do announce it seems to cause panic with the group and they all scatter in different directions. Yesterday a group of four people, walking a dog and a stroller had the whole path blocked. I decided to slowly go to the right of them on the grass and one guy in the group yelled at me as I passed: "Would be nice if you announced on your right!" So, not sure if you can always win by announcing or not.
Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
Very much THIS. Walkers on MUP's do not seem to follow any rules. They walk to the right, or they walk to the left so that they can see oncoming cyclists, yet assume that they have the right of way. I don't announce myself so that I can get by before they do something more stupid than they are already doing. If they are not able to consistently follow rules, they should not expect the same from cyclists. I would much rather pass a walker on a MUP and hear them complain than to announce myself and have them step in front of me
I generally don't announce either. I find it tends to do more harm, by startling people, than good. Most people don't announce. Fortunately, my MUP is quite wide, so it's pretty easy to give people lots of room. Plus, when I ride, it's mostly joggers and commuters so no large groups messing around.

I do announce if I think there's a chance the person may move. Like if they're catching up to someone just as I'm catching up to them, or there is someone coming in the opposite direction and I can't leave as much room, or if there are kids who are playing etc.
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Old 04-30-19, 07:49 AM
  #36  
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When you figure out how to get other people to act predictably on the trails let me know.

Until that time, whether you are walking, jogging, bicycling or whatever, it's going to be up to you to travel in a manner that avoids accidents despite the incorrect acts of others.
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Old 04-30-19, 07:55 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
I generally don't announce either. I find it tends to do more harm, by startling people, than good. Most people don't announce. Fortunately, my MUP is quite wide, so it's pretty easy to give people lots of room. Plus, when I ride, it's mostly joggers and commuters so no large groups messing around.

I do announce if I think there's a chance the person may move. Like if they're catching up to someone just as I'm catching up to them, or there is someone coming in the opposite direction and I can't leave as much room, or if there are kids who are playing etc.
I'm wondering how much our positions on this are affected by the nature of the MUPs we ride.

I do a bit of riding on the Minuteman near Boston, and I definitely got in the habit of always announcing on it. It's relatively narrow, highly trafficked, and speeds vary enormously. I find if I don't announce, I'm passing closely enough that the startle is almost a given and it prevents the last second random step to the left. On a really wide path, I'm much less consistent on announcing, but around here, wide paths are really unusual.
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Old 04-30-19, 07:59 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by good4u View Post
I go way left if I see headphones.
This.

I always go WAY left. Give them more than enough room.

You aren't Maverick and Goose. Don't buzz the tower.

If it's not safe to give them a 4 foot margin, wait a second until the oncoming traffic clears then do it. And when you're passing kids on bikes, slow down to a crawl. There is a good chance they are using 100% of their focus just to stay upright on the bike and go in a straight line. Anything can startle them. Just go super slow. You'll be by them quickly and can go about your business. (And if you see them 5 miles down the road at a rest later, give the kid a high five for making it that far!)
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Old 04-30-19, 08:04 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks View Post
This.

I always go WAY left. Give them more than enough room.

You aren't Maverick and Goose. Don't buzz the tower.

If it's not safe to give them a 4 foot margin, wait a second until the oncoming traffic clears then do it. And when you're passing kids on bikes, slow down to a crawl. There is a good chance they are using 100% of their focus just to stay upright on the bike and go in a straight line. Anything can startle them. Just go super slow. You'll be by them quickly and can go about your business. (And if you see them 5 miles down the road at a rest later, give the kid a high five for making it that far!)
+1

Kids, dogs, strollers, headphones, roller skaters, and really old people. The last group primarily because they tend to seem nervous and feeling vulnerable, and I feel bad if I startle them.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:05 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm wondering how much our positions on this are affected by the nature of the MUPs we ride.

I do a bit of riding on the Minuteman near Boston, and I definitely got in the habit of always announcing on it. It's relatively narrow, highly trafficked, and speeds vary enormously. I find if I don't announce, I'm passing closely enough that the startle is almost a given and it prevents the last second random step to the left. On a really wide path, I'm much less consistent on announcing, but around here, wide paths are really unusual.
I'd say the amount of bike traffic in an area has a lot to do with it too.

If I recall, biking is pretty popular in and around Boston. (I've only been there once, so correct me if I'm wrong)

If biking is super popular, people are used to the 'norms' of it and react reasonably to common sounds like bells and 'on your left'. They know what it means.

In my area, biking it not common. At all. There are more pedestrians on the trails than bikes. And the bikes you do see out there are usually low mileage folks looking for a nice day in the sun (nothing wrong with that...they just aren't highly experiences riders)

So in my area, saying "on your left" can and often causes someone to turn and give a confused look as if to say "What does that mean? What's on my left?" And that person is more likely to do something unpredictable like 'left to the left'.

So where you ride and how common biking is in that area has a huge impact, I think.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:06 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm wondering how much our positions on this are affected by the nature of the MUPs we ride.

I do a bit of riding on the Minuteman near Boston, and I definitely got in the habit of always announcing on it. It's relatively narrow, highly trafficked, and speeds vary enormously. I find if I don't announce, I'm passing closely enough that the startle is almost a given and it prevents the last second random step to the left. On a really wide path, I'm much less consistent on announcing, but around here, wide paths are really unusual.
Probably. I'm sure, just like with driving, you need to adjust to the conditions present.

Plus, as I said, I'm on the path during commuter hours, so it's mostly people riding with a purpose or joggers. The path itself is as wide as some of the narrow roads in Europe. I'd bet a pro peloton would ride at least 6 abreast on it, so I'm not usually passing someone closely. People often ride side by side and are entirely on their half of the path despite not being super close together. Also the sight lines are generally good. No blind corners or anything.

When it is crowded, or the times when there are more than just me and the person I'm passing, or I just feel there's a chance they might move over randomly I tend to announce with my bell.

ETA: the other thing too is that most people don't announce. Since it isn't common, it can be startling when it does happen. That's part of the reason I use a bell instead of "on your left". Lots of people then look to the left which causes them to move a bit to the left. They're just not used to it (heck, it startles me a bit when someone does it to me).

Last edited by OBoile; 04-30-19 at 08:09 AM.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:10 AM
  #42  
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Good points @Skipjacks and @OBoile . I'm going to back off my dogmatic view of this because I think we're describing our behaviours on very different kinds of paths.
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Old 04-30-19, 08:22 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Good points @Skipjacks and @OBoile . I'm going to back off my dogmatic view of this because I think we're describing our behaviours on very different kinds of paths.
It doesn't even take much distance to be a very difference biking culture.

I ride around Baltimore. It's like the Wild Wild West. No rules. Bike paths are more of a suggestion than a well thought out plan. 'Common' sense isn't very common.

But I've also ridden close to Washington DC, all of 30 miles away...and it's like a well oiled precision machine where everyone follows the same set of biking standards and knows what to do and acts predictably. When you're not used to that, it's kind of weird. And you go from being one of the better more experienced bikers at home to being a rookie who's in everyone's way.
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Old 04-30-19, 09:41 AM
  #44  
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I gauge the situation when announcing. If the person or group is in their lane and seemingly "doing the right thing" I will slow down and pass unannounced. If they are sprawled across the entire MUP, I slow and announce. I think I startle people more when I announce and have been told that when riders announce the walkers/runners feel that they are being yelled at. I think I need a bell.
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Old 05-21-19, 11:06 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Yendor72 View Post
....I think I need a bell.
A bell works great where I'm riding. I use a very small single pinger; rarely need to ring it twice! ADVANCE WARNING IS KEY! Give people a chance to get startled and freaked out, by the time I get to them whether under or over 20 mph/33Kph, I've been heard and seen on trails and roadways, and never have had a problem (yet!) (I do not ride the sideWALK, even where legal; too narrow, crowded, etc.). I generally ride paved trails for training/recreation, and roads for commuting/training. When on the "rail" trails during the weekend there are many more families and I found it unwise for my type of riding due to speed and unpredictability of 2 parents, 3 kids, and a dog. Not their fault, just not enough room for the "family proton" and me. Many close calls on the trails due to roller skaters (usually with headphones) with dogs on leashes ( those dogs just don't know what the bell is for, and "on your left" doesn't translate to canine; DANGER! Ever get clotheslined?! Photos from the Hawthorne Trail in Gainesville, FL. overlooking the Paynes Prairie (let's call it a "swamp"). Nice shady ride, one "hill" (for central Florida anyways), low traffic (bike and pedestrian), about 40 miles round trip with deer, foxes, rabbits, armadillos, snakes, many birds, etc. Very enjoyable for all types of riding including some "off-road" (maintenance and horse trails, etc.) "cyclocross adventures". I use the "road" bike to go all over; DT friction shifting, 30 mm tires, low gear, and out of the saddle riding for a lark.

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Old 05-21-19, 11:19 AM
  #46  
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I often try to phrase my announcements as much as a greeting, but then being slow I have more time to get the words out.
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Old 05-21-19, 12:38 PM
  #47  
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The definition of defensive driving is "To be accident free despite the incorrect actions of others."

You can whine about the actions of others but, if your goal is to be accident free, you are going to have to be the one to take the responsibility for behaving defensively.
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Old 05-21-19, 01:12 PM
  #48  
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The local MUP I ride most often has signs at every trailhead/intersection that say "Always say "on your left" when passing". I've always taken that as a good guide, and I always announce. My speed on the path seems to be moderate - I pass a fair amount of riders as well as walkers, and I get passed a decent number of times as well. It definitely annoys me to no end when I get buzzed by someone going flat out and passing with no warning or room...seems to me that announcing is just common courtesy. As for pedestrians, while I've startled a couple, I don't think I've ever had one move into my way.
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Old 05-21-19, 04:36 PM
  #49  
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Inevitably calling out loud will cause panic amongst some walkers.

Using a bell is the best. Use your bell as soon as you are far enough for them to hear. A sudden unexpected loud sound from closeby will trigger an instinct reaction of fear response (fight or flight).

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Old 05-21-19, 04:55 PM
  #50  
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I just don't ride on MUPS... way too frustrating. Headphones/self-entitled groups who feel that they should have the whole path and people that jump IN your way when you do announce/ring. I've come to the conclusion that if it is a single pedestrian, there's a 90% likelihood that they have earbuds in and can't hear you and if it is two or more people, they just don't give a damn.

I can either mow them down or just avoid them all... I'm a much happier rider without them in my life.
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