Fewer Riders Announce?
08-24-19, 06:07 AM
#126
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I was thinking the car scenario as I was reading some of the previous posts. While no one actually does it, I'm pretty sure announcing a pass is the one listed scenario for legally using your horn in Missouri. Maybe it's been modified in the decades since my last written test, or maybe my recollection is poor.
Whoops didn't get the quote....
Most of the time I announce, although I'm soft spoken enough I don't know how often I'm heard. I've considered a bell. However at least 40% of pedestrians are 'plugged-in". For them I don't even bother.
Whoops didn't get the quote....
Most of the time I announce, although I'm soft spoken enough I don't know how often I'm heard. I've considered a bell. However at least 40% of pedestrians are 'plugged-in". For them I don't even bother.
Last edited by gear64; 08-24-19 at 06:12 AM.
08-25-19, 06:43 PM
#127
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I almost feel sorry for the people who just have to be fiddling with their phone devices or have to use ear buds/ head phones. They are missing out. I like to ride my bike so that the obvious, fitness, gets done but also to see and hear 'stuff'! When I ride I really get into a zone of hyper awareness for all of my senses! It sounds corny but it's the truth! I love it!!!
08-25-19, 08:44 PM
#128
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Don't really understand the obsession with this topic.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
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08-26-19, 05:18 AM
#129
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Fewer Riders Announce?
From the OP, quoted above, this thread was about announcing to other MUP users, most often pedestrians, about making a pass on a bicycle. @Boxkite’s commentary about riding with earphones seems intended for the rider, not the pedestrian. Indeed, pedestrians listening to earphones may not respond to your “demand/request” for the “right-of-way.”
I have previously posted:
My favorite MUP is an asphalt winding trail with yellow center line. My wife and grand kids walk with me when I can't ride. We always stay on "our side" of the trail (USA) but I notice fewer riders announcing or using a bell. Some are "road riders" going quite fast. Is this discourtesy becoming common in most areas? It is almost as bad as the auto drivers.
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I never announce because when I do they move over in front of me. Not because they intend to, but because people are stupid. So I just keep my mouth shut and pass by them quietly.
If I want to see things go from somewhat organized to helter skelter all I have to do is say "on your left!" That pretty much does it.
If I want to see things go from somewhat organized to helter skelter all I have to do is say "on your left!" That pretty much does it.
I just don't ride on MUPS... way too frustrating. Headphones/self-entitled groups who feel that they should have the whole path and people that jump IN your way when you do announce/ring. I've come to the conclusion that if it is a single pedestrian, there's a 90% likelihood that they have earbuds in and can't hear you and if it is two or more people, they just don't give a damn.
I can either mow them down or just avoid them all... I'm a much happier rider without them in my life.
I can either mow them down or just avoid them all... I'm a much happier rider without them in my life.
Don't really understand the obsession with this topic.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
I almost feel sorry for the people who just have to be fiddling with their phone devices or have to use ear buds/ head phones.They are missing out.
I like to ride my bike so that the obvious, fitness, gets done but also to see and hear 'stuff'! When I ride I really get into a zone of hyper awareness for all of my senses! It sounds corny but it's the truth! I love it!!!
I like to ride my bike so that the obvious, fitness, gets done but also to see and hear 'stuff'! When I ride I really get into a zone of hyper awareness for all of my senses! It sounds corny but it's the truth! I love it!!!
I have previously posted:
If we ride often enough on MUPs we've all seen...wannabe racers riding too fast for conditions, sometimes two abreast, sometimes in mini-pelotons and not giving any consideration to other users -- slower cyclists, old folks walking with canes or walkers, families with strollers and toddlers and dogs on 50 yard retractable non-leashes (the dogs too), etc.
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing…
Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind.
That's life on the multi-use path. Always been that way. Always will be. It's just the nature of the thing…
Jerks are gonna jerk. But most folks are pretty cool about using the MUP. I prefer to keep the latter in mind.
…My own thought is that a MUP is not so much a commuter route, or training venue, but a pastoral park, where people can enjoy themselves without too many worries, and needn’t be always vigilant, as is a cyclist on the Road.
A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind. According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others” (Oxford Dictionary).The strollers would be dressed in their best Sunday clothes, and running and horses (and ? bicycles) would be discouraged.
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
A few years ago I went on a walking tour of the Boston’s Emerald Necklace park system designed by the great 19th century landscape architect Frederic Law Olmsted with the concept of a Promenade in mind. According to the Park Ranger, it was planned “to take a leisurely walk, ride, or drive in public, especially to meet or be seen by others” (Oxford Dictionary).The strollers would be dressed in their best Sunday clothes, and running and horses (and ? bicycles) would be discouraged.
My own Golden Rule of Cycling is “Do unto the Pedestrians, as you would have the Cagers do unto you.”
08-26-19, 05:19 AM
#130
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Wearing earphones while riding, unless the rider is obstructing flow, is not really relevant to this thread, and is a tiresome topic with many previous “popcorn” threads. However as a counterpoint:
As noted:
I almost feel sorry for the people who just have to be fiddling with their phone devices or have to use ear buds/ head phones. They are missing out. I like to ride my bike so that the obvious, fitness, gets done but also to see and hear 'stuff'!
When I ride I really get into a zone of hyper awareness for all of my senses! It sounds corny but it's the truth! I love it!!!
When I ride I really get into a zone of hyper awareness for all of my senses! It sounds corny but it's the truth! I love it!!!
You are out riding in nature. Why contaminate the experience with urban noise? Get in tune with yourself, your bike, and whatever is happening all around you. Cycling affords a chance to breath, think, recharge and get in touch with your environment. Happy 50th Earth Day!
It also affords an opportunity to listern to audiobooks, podcasts, music, etc. for those who prefer it. I am one who prefers audiobooks and have listened to hundreds while cycling…
There is no finer music than the soft whirring of tires on pavement with the wind at your back. I'll record it and send it to you.
Arguing about listening to an audio device or not is one of the great popcorn traditions on BF from my experience.
A subscriber commented once about his listening experience sans audio device, saying if he wanted to experience the same thing without the hazards of cycling, he could just sit on the side of a busy highway.
A subscriber commented once about his listening experience sans audio device, saying if he wanted to experience the same thing without the hazards of cycling, he could just sit on the side of a busy highway.
It also affords an opportunity to listern to audiobooks, podcasts, music, etc. for those who prefer it. I am one who prefers audiobooks and have listened to hundreds while cycling…
I listen to music or talk radio 100% of the time when I'm riding solo, whether it's a commute, or just a ride, and never listen if there's anyone else with me.
Single ear bud, in the curb-side ear, so I can hear traffic with the other ear.
Single ear bud, in the curb-side ear, so I can hear traffic with the other ear.
My usual practice too; music usually on the weekends when no good talk shows, other than repeats are on (not financial or gardening 
).I don't listen when riding with others.
I wear loosely fitted over the ear phones since I can't keep ear buds in the ear, and I hear just fine, besides close monitoring with my both right and left rear view mirrors. (link)..
).I don't listen when riding with others.I wear loosely fitted over the ear phones since I can't keep ear buds in the ear, and I hear just fine, besides close monitoring with my both right and left rear view mirrors. (link)..
I also listen to spoken word podcasts at a low volume in my curbside ear. I can hear traffic fine. On the rides I don't listen, or if I don't like the podcast and pull the earbud out I don't feel I gain any extra situational awareness.
My guess would be that picking one horn out of the Manhattan cacophony of horns, and echoes off the buildings, would be daunting in and of its self.
Whats more, I feel that when listening to spoken word podcasts in my curbside ear at a low volume, I can hear traffic better than when I'm in my car with the windows up with no music or podcasts.
However, it's been my experience that when a music clip is played, even in one ear, I start to loose my situational awareness. I think it has something to do with the way the human brain works....
My guess would be that picking one horn out of the Manhattan cacophony of horns, and echoes off the buildings, would be daunting in and of its self.
Whats more, I feel that when listening to spoken word podcasts in my curbside ear at a low volume, I can hear traffic better than when I'm in my car with the windows up with no music or podcasts.
However, it's been my experience that when a music clip is played, even in one ear, I start to loose my situational awareness. I think it has something to do with the way the human brain works....
...I feel safer wearing headphones than not, because my brain sometimes it can rely on my hearing to hear cars behind me, when the only thing that's actually affective is to actually look.
Wearing headphones makes my brain realize that I'd better look - which is far far safer than hoping a car passing me is making enough noise to hear it.
You can't rely on your ears for knowing what's behind you, you have to look
Wearing headphones makes my brain realize that I'd better look - which is far far safer than hoping a car passing me is making enough noise to hear it.
You can't rely on your ears for knowing what's behind you, you have to look
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-26-19 at 06:42 AM.
08-26-19, 05:37 AM
#131
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Don't really understand the obsession with this topic.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
You're not expected to honk at cars when you pass them, or announce you're passing in grocery store aisles, or stepping up to the urinal at work with an "On yer left!".
I will do whatever I have to do to pass you safely, but your emotional response to my actions by getting scared, or angry, or aroused, isn't my problem.
The car comparison a just silly. I don't recall a lot of situations where cars and pedestrians share a lane. MUPs just don't have any consistent traffic pattern, so without warnings, pedestrians really have very little notice that someone riding fast is immediately next to them.
Guess what, you probably have the same startle reflex they have. Most people will flinch or something when they suddenly get passed closely by a fast moving vehicle.
I don't understand why people are so resistant to the idea of saying something or making some noise before passing --it costs you nothing.
08-26-19, 05:48 AM
#132
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Most people will flinch or something when they suddenly get passed closely by a fast moving vehicle.
I'm not big on announcing my presence anywhere (maybe this is an introvert vs. extrovert issue) but I try to make up for that by passing with extra care. And by completely avoiding bike paths, which is easy since there's not one within 20 miles of me. Those places seem to create roughly about as many issues as they solve.
08-26-19, 06:50 AM
#133
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Or urine stream.
I'm not big on announcing my presence anywhere (maybe this is an introvert vs. extrovert issue) but I try to make up for that by passing with extra care. And by completely avoiding bike paths, which is easy since there's not one within 20 miles of me. Those places seem to create roughly about as many issues as they solve.
I'm not big on announcing my presence anywhere (maybe this is an introvert vs. extrovert issue) but I try to make up for that by passing with extra care. And by completely avoiding bike paths, which is easy since there's not one within 20 miles of me. Those places seem to create roughly about as many issues as they solve.
The usefulness of bike paths is highly context specific. Just like streets, there are good ones and bad ones. There are some paths that I would consider very attractive if they weren't immediately adjacent to a perfectly good road that will get me to where I'm going quicker. Likewise, I would probably avoid the Minuteman just because of how crowded it gets if the nearby streets weren't so much worse.
08-26-19, 07:08 AM
#134
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"on your left" confuses people. they do all sorts of weird ****.
I've found a loud free wheel to be more effective. a bell often gets ignored.
a simple "bike back" or "passing" seems to work much better. especially in conjunction with the loud freehub.
then again avoiding the MUP is a way better option. especially if you have to announce that often.
I've found a loud free wheel to be more effective. a bell often gets ignored.
a simple "bike back" or "passing" seems to work much better. especially in conjunction with the loud freehub.
then again avoiding the MUP is a way better option. especially if you have to announce that often.
08-26-19, 07:19 AM
#135
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Equally as, or perhaps even more effective than the loud hub: squeaky disc brakes. My front rotor has a lot of miles on it (well past 15k now,) but is still well within the thickness range, and is one noisy fella under braking. Apparently, brake noise us universally recognized. I give a little blip of brake, and the sounds of angry birds chirps out, and people just move. They don't even turn to see what's coming. I had even bought a new rotor to go back to silence, but I'm keeping that chirpy thing on there as long as I can.
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08-26-19, 09:26 PM
#136
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I don't know what grocery stores or urinals you're using, but I don't recall ever passing people at 15-20 mph two feet to their left in either of those places.
The car comparison a just silly. I don't recall a lot of situations where cars and pedestrians share a lane. MUPs just don't have any consistent traffic pattern, so without warnings, pedestrians really have very little notice that someone riding fast is immediately next to them.
Guess what, you probably have the same startle reflex they have. Most people will flinch or something when they suddenly get passed closely by a fast moving vehicle.
I don't understand why people are so resistant to the idea of saying something or making some noise before passing --it costs you nothing.
The car comparison a just silly. I don't recall a lot of situations where cars and pedestrians share a lane. MUPs just don't have any consistent traffic pattern, so without warnings, pedestrians really have very little notice that someone riding fast is immediately next to them.
Guess what, you probably have the same startle reflex they have. Most people will flinch or something when they suddenly get passed closely by a fast moving vehicle.
I don't understand why people are so resistant to the idea of saying something or making some noise before passing --it costs you nothing.
Pedestrians and cyclists sharing space with cars is extremely common. Should cars announce their intent to pass? Or is it up to pedestrians and cyclists to figure it out on their own.
Everyone has a responsibility to be aware of their surroundings, if they choose to remain unaware there is a chance of startling, flinching, and belts making contact with urinals.
Saying something or making noise doesn't "cost anything" but it doesn't necessarily prevent accidents and injuries either. It's customary etiquette based on unproven assumptions. And limiting the forum conversation to MUPs doesn't mean the false assumptions and expectations aren't carrying over to streets, sidewalks, and trails in real life every day.
08-26-19, 09:43 PM
#137
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Passing a person at 20mph within 2 feet is difficult to define as safe, regardless of the noises associated with the pass.
Pedestrians and cyclists sharing space with cars is extremely common. Should cars announce their intent to pass? Or is it up to pedestrians and cyclists to figure it out on their own.
Everyone has a responsibility to be aware of their surroundings, if they choose to remain unaware there is a chance of startling, flinching, and belts making contact with urinals.
Saying something or making noise doesn't "cost anything" but it doesn't necessarily prevent accidents and injuries either. It's customary etiquette based on unproven assumptions. And limiting the forum conversation to MUPs doesn't mean the false assumptions and expectations aren't carrying over to streets, sidewalks, and trails in real life every day.
Pedestrians and cyclists sharing space with cars is extremely common. Should cars announce their intent to pass? Or is it up to pedestrians and cyclists to figure it out on their own.
Everyone has a responsibility to be aware of their surroundings, if they choose to remain unaware there is a chance of startling, flinching, and belts making contact with urinals.
Saying something or making noise doesn't "cost anything" but it doesn't necessarily prevent accidents and injuries either. It's customary etiquette based on unproven assumptions. And limiting the forum conversation to MUPs doesn't mean the false assumptions and expectations aren't carrying over to streets, sidewalks, and trails in real life every day.
And no, in MA, it's not just "customary etiquette" , it's legally required.
08-28-19, 07:37 PM
#138
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Where I live, there's a big increase in the number of electric cars. Damn . . . those things don't make a sound . . .
But for bikes, the hornet-nest sound of high-end rear hubs drives me nuts. I much prefer a bell to an automatic noisemaker . . . but . . . yeah, a bike (especially at speed) can easily sneak up on a pedestrian.
But for bikes, the hornet-nest sound of high-end rear hubs drives me nuts. I much prefer a bell to an automatic noisemaker . . . but . . . yeah, a bike (especially at speed) can easily sneak up on a pedestrian.
