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Steel is Real.. Explain?

Old 05-27-19, 07:30 PM
  #226  
TimothyH
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This thread has become one big cliche.


-Tim-
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Old 05-27-19, 08:31 PM
  #227  
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Originally Posted by satrain18 View Post
Know anybody who has a $632 bottom bracket facing and tapping set in their home garage?
I dont know anyone with one in their garage.
A local shop has one though and itd be a nominal charge to face and/or tap bb threads.

A local builder has a Campy tool set that is 40ish years old and works perfectly(it was used on one of my bikes we built). Impressive precision for being so old and used so extensively.

I can't imagine needing to buy one of those tools even though all my bikes have threaded bb shells.
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Old 05-27-19, 11:54 PM
  #228  
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Old 05-28-19, 05:21 AM
  #229  
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Obviously, the only relevant question is "which maternal allows you to attach refrigerator magnets to your frame?"
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Old 05-28-19, 05:54 AM
  #230  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
you dont find cdale's claim to be invalid? What?!?! Find me an equivalent bike to the 2.8 model from that era with a frame that weighs anything close to 8#. I can save you time- you wont find one because one doesnt exist. It there is one from that era, then it isnt equivalent in level to the 2.8 so it isnt comparable.
I actually provided a real example that is an equivalent frame in steel, and its actually on the heavy side due to size difference, but it still isnt even close to the claimed 8#. Yet you dont find their claim to be invalid.

You look at data all day and clearly thrive on accuracy...except for this instance.
+ 1
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Old 05-28-19, 06:03 AM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Obviously, the only relevant question is "which maternal allows you to attach refrigerator magnets to your frame?"
Speaking of magnets...Yesterday I was getting my touring bike ready for next month's trip. That involved, among other things, transferring the computer magnet from my old front wheel that was replaced last fall. Got the thing off and put it on the bar. Put a new battery in the wireless pickup then went back to the bar to find the magnet. It wasn't there. Looked all over the floor and other places where is might be hiding. Really frustrating. Finally gave up. Picked up the case for my better glasses and found the magnet stuck to the underside. Must be steel stiffners under the faux leather covering.

Steel is real...sneaky.
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Old 05-28-19, 11:07 AM
  #232  
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Those who know need not be told, Those who do not will not listen.
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Old 05-28-19, 08:41 PM
  #233  
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THE ULTIMUNDO.......................

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Old 05-29-19, 10:50 PM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by Juggy_Gales View Post
It's just something I have been hearing recently..

I had owned bikes years ago.. But had not ridden in 20yrs until 2017 when I bought my aluminum bike and kept seeing everything being
Aluminum, Carbon or Titanium.. And sure Surly made steel bikes but so many bikes were not..
But now I am seeing many more steel bikes being made and new manufacturers using steel.
Nothing wrong with steel, I know.. and any bike I owned growing up including my first mountain bike in the 90's was steel.

I just have not ridden a steel bike in all of those years so I forget what a steel bike even feels like and how they would compare..
Does a steel bike feel sluggish in comparison..

Read history? lol.. I know.. Steel was how bikes were made since they were first built.. I get it. I know its not 'NEW'

I meant it as I am noticing a resurgence in Steel bike popularity and wondered what sparked it. Nostalgia? Steel Durability?
My experience is that my steel bike (Trek 957) seems to go faster downhill (gravitational pull). And when the old Cateye Solar edges toward 60 MPH there's comfort level knowing that the bike is held together with metal.
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Old 05-30-19, 04:56 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by satrain18 View Post
Also a 2x11 drivetrain will easily add three or four pounds to the overall weight.
?? A old NR 2x drivetrain barely adds 2 lbs. The other 1-2 lbs must be the extra links in the chain.

Originally Posted by berner View Post
Not yet mentioned, in this era of the need for sustainability, is the fact that steel and even aluminum frames can be recycled. I wonder if anyone else has noticed how most everything we buy comes in packaging that is then thrown away. Half of what we but is trash and the other half becomes trash soon thereafter.
This ^^^ So if you have a carbon frame you are killing baby seals and warming the globe !

Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Steel is like butter, man.
You wouldn't catch Julia Child without it.
Sorry, that was sherry she wouldn't be without. But not the cheap cooking kind.

Originally Posted by Juggy_Gales View Post
What is with the fascination? . . . but why is this the thing now? . . . But aren't they a bit heavy too?
With everyone trying to be light and go carbon.. Im seeing so much "Steel is Real"
Personally, I really don't care what the bicycle is made of as I have had them all. I stopped riding my carbon bike after injuries made me ache when riding for any prolonged period of time. I have aluminum mountain bikes that do their jobs well. For me, no other bicycle I have had gave my as much pleasure to ride as certain steel ones I keep going back to. They are nearly as light as my last carbon road bike, handle just as well given my abilities, are compliant enough to not cause me pain on rough roads, and I find them to be incomparably beautiful.

All this being said the adage holds true - you get what you pay for.






I most of this thread is pure opinion and I hope in good fun.
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Old 05-30-19, 07:56 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by sewupnut View Post
My experience is that my steel bike (Trek 957) seems to go faster downhill (gravitational pull).
What do you mean by "gravitational pull"? You understand, all other things being equal, heavier objects don't fall faster than lighter objects, right?
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Old 05-30-19, 08:22 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
What do you mean by "gravitational pull"? You understand, all other things being equal, heavier objects don't fall faster than lighter objects, right?
Don't need a physics lesson here. The key word is "seems". The point is that I feel better screaming downhill on one of my steel bikes.
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Old 05-30-19, 08:48 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by sewupnut View Post
Don't need a physics lesson here. The key word is "seems". The point is that I feel better screaming downhill on one of my steel bikes.
A little posting tip here--when you specify a cause as being "gravitational pull", the reader has no way of knowing whether that or the word "seems" is key.

You make a good point, though. If you're not racing, "it feels faster" may be just as good a reason for choosing it as "it is actually faster". To me, the big appeal of speed is how it feels--me and the machine flying down the road as one.
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Old 05-30-19, 09:18 AM
  #239  
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A minor observation. The bicycle of my username celebrated 40 years and 50,000 miles last week. It has been crashed several times, once hard (36 years ago - the fork was re-bent and replaced a year later). Had tools dropped on it. Seen less than stellar handling from movers. Rode it on gravel yesterday in prop for a crazy 5 days of grave in 3 weeks. THe bike is still very real. Had carbon fiber been around 40 years ago, could one that has seen what my bike has seen claim the same?

That frame has seen the services of several framebuilders. Ed Litton re-bent the fork (then painted the new fork and re-painted the frame) in 1983. Mark Noble and Dave Levy have both touched up the seat tube/lug reaming, many years apart. (I used an undersized post and shim for decades and un-did Mark's work doing that. 2-bolt posts were a if-you-see-it-buy-it item for about 15 years.) A shop in Seattle (Greenlake I recall) spread it from 120 to 126. It is due for another paint job and I will have Dave Levy add under the DT bottle bosses, move the RD cable housing guide (I hit it with my Pedro's fix gear wrench flipping the wheel) and perhaps I will have seatstay rack mounts added since racks for brake bolt attachment are getting hard to find (but are brain-dead easy to install on cantilevered bikes). All of this work was done by local framebuilders with little wait and at low cost. 4 different cities. The moving of the housing guide is because the bike now has a function that I never really dreamed I would do when I ordered it - serve primarily as a fix gear bike. (I did spec horizontal dropouts specifically so I could. But at the time I didn't even know about double-sided fix gear hubs and the Pedros wrenches were decades from existing.)

So, in the very long haul, steel is a joy to own because it can be modified/repaired so easily and as needs change. And conservative steel, ie the skinny tubed stuff of non-radically strong alloys like 531 is so forgiving for damage, both crash and impact (bike falling over and hitting something and from tools). Real damage is nearly always visible (like the dropouts being 6" from where they belonged after my '83 crash). Even then, that fork was perfectly safe to ride another year while the replacement was on order.

Then there is the ride. I still love it and I've had plenty of time to get tired of it. Haven't yet had a carbon fiber bike and won't (for other reasons) but have two ti bikes. I love them too. Both are much more "purpose built" and do what they do better. The 79pmooney is an all-arounder in the true sense. But it is also an elegant roadster in the long English tradition of road bikes. A fine ride. Sweet steering. Comfortable. Plenty stiff. Good on any road surface. A keeper. I won't do another 40 years and 50,000 miles on it but that won't be the bike's fault. It is ready. Maybe it will under someone else's legs.

Ben
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Old 05-30-19, 09:46 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
THE ULTIMUNDO.......................

Yes. The door is quite nice.
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Old 05-30-19, 09:50 AM
  #241  
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Dropping the bike and riding are 2 different things. Yes 2 bikes of differing materials will fall at the same rate, but when riding momentum counts
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Old 05-30-19, 10:11 AM
  #242  
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
Dropping the bike and riding are 2 different things. Yes 2 bikes of differing materials will fall at the same rate, but when riding momentum counts
The difference between downhill and level is that you are "falling" down the downhill slope, so that isn't a momentum issue. I was responding to a post that specified "downhill" and "gravitational pull".

Momentum is mass times speed, so saying a vehicle is moving faster because it has more momentum is somewhat circular. The heavier object at the same speed will have more momentum, but it doesn't mean it's going faster.

Now, the heavier bike may be less prone to bounce around on the pavement, and that may or may not help to preserve momentum at the bottom of the hill, but my knowledge of such physics is admittedly nil.

Weight weenies tend to overstate the importance of overcoming inertia in acceleration to make absurd speed claims about fractions of ounces, but one has to be careful about not overstating the importance of weight in preserving momentum (also inertia), otherwise we should all be riding 100 pound bikes.
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Old 05-30-19, 10:32 AM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy View Post
?? A old NR 2x drivetrain barely adds 2 lbs. The other 1-2 lbs must be the extra links in the chain.
TimothyH's ride is a fixed gear track bike with one track cog instead of a heavy cassette or freewheel anda single chainring instead of double.
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Old 05-30-19, 10:53 AM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by satrain18 View Post
TimothyH's ride is a fixed gear track bike with one track cog instead of a heavy cassette or freewheel anda single chainring instead of double.
Yes I know. It was said that 2x drivetrain would add 3-4 lbs, which it does not unless the old NR is lighter than more modern stuff, that's all . . . Here is the quote again in case it was forgotten. . .

Originally Posted by satrain18 View Post
Also a 2x11 drivetrain will easily add three or four pounds to the overall weight.
If you want to talk about weight I have a 1970 steel that weighs 24 lbs which is not bad for the age and a 2014 all carbon that weighs 19lbs. If I fasted a day I probably be lighter on the 50 year old bike.
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Old 05-30-19, 03:52 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by sewupnut View Post
My experience is that my steel bike (Trek 957) seems to go faster downhill (gravitational pull).
The Trek 957 is a fine bike, but as they taught us in physics class, "the acceleration of gravity is independent of mass."
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Old 05-30-19, 04:30 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by satrain18 View Post
TimothyH's ride is a fixed gear track bike with one track cog instead of a heavy cassette or freewheel anda single chainring instead of double.
For the sake of clarity, it isn't a track bike. Track bikes don't have brakes. Mine has SRAM S900 levers, Dura Ace calipers, Koolstop pads and the frame has internal routing for the rear brake cable.

It also has two track cogs - 15 and 16 tooth. The chain, chaingring and sprockets are thicker 1/8, not 3/16 like a road bike.

Titanium pedals and carbon bar/post/fork/saddle/cages keep some of the weight down. The Extralite stem is only 79 grams.

15.9 lb total weight includes pedals, cages and GPS mount.

To the point of this thread, the True Temper S3 frame alone is 1460 grams. That's a touch over 3.2 lb.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 05-30-19 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 05-31-19, 04:51 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
The Trek 957 is a fine bike, but as they taught us in physics class, "the acceleration of gravity is independent of mass."
Perhaps you should have stayed for more physics. Mass accelerated by gravity is dependent upon the various sorts of resistance to motion to achieve speed. That is why fat guys go down hills faster than thin climbers.
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Old 05-31-19, 06:01 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by Juggy_Gales View Post
Ok I keep hearing and seeing quotes about "Steel is Real".

What is with the fascination? I am assuming it is related to steel framed bikes.. but why is this the thing now?"
Steel has always been a thing. The steel though must be high quality chromoly steel which is lighter than tensile steel. The reason people like steel is for the buttery ride it gives. Also, if taken care of it will last a lifetime. Both aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life.
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Old 05-31-19, 07:17 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by Commutess View Post
Steel has always been a thing. The steel though must be high quality chromoly steel which is lighter than tensile steel. The reason people like steel is for the buttery ride it gives. Also, if taken care of it will last a lifetime. Both aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life.
May I know what the shelf life of carbon fiber is please?


-Tim-
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Old 05-31-19, 08:19 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
Perhaps you should have stayed for more physics. Mass accelerated by gravity is dependent upon the various sorts of resistance to motion to achieve speed. That is why fat guys go down hills faster than thin climbers.
Are you suggesting that the mass of the frame is the significant factor in this?
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