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Steel is Real.. Explain?

Old 05-31-19, 08:19 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
Perhaps you should have stayed for more physics. Mass accelerated by gravity is dependent upon the various sorts of resistance to motion to achieve speed. That is why fat guys go down hills faster than thin climbers.
Are you suggesting that the mass of the frame is the significant factor in this?
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Old 06-01-19, 06:42 AM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by John Young View Post
Its just choices for people as each bike frame material feels different to ride on and some like the feel of a steel bike. One thing I have found with my new bike with carbon forks is it feels more 'skittish' going down hill compared to my old bike with steel forks which felt rock solid
Steel alloys will always have that certain feel. The thing is rider comfort and performance.

In the older models of Cervelo, the 3T forks were bladed all the way up to the crown. Now take a look at the more recent Cervelo bikes. The forks are now designed with integration with the head tube (now tapered). I would say all the high end road bikes have this design.

What does this mean? The fast descent in hills with switchbacks will allow the rider to hold the line without the loss of control feeling.
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Old 06-01-19, 07:57 AM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
May I know what the shelf life of carbon fiber is please?
It depends. Carbon fiber production needs to be done perfectly to have all the attributes for longevity. So, you must really trust the manufacturer. The biggest issue is that carbon fiber can get damaged very easily which compromises the integrity. It can be repaired, but then again, you have to trust the repair or have a possible catastrophic failure.
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Old 06-01-19, 08:04 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by Commutess View Post
It depends. Carbon fiber production needs to be done perfectly to have all the attributes for longevity. So, you must really trust the manufacturer. The biggest issue is that carbon fiber can get damaged very easily which compromises the integrity. It can be repaired, but then again, you have to trust the repair or have a possible catastrophic failure.
Much of this is misinformation.

Aerospace carbon fiber has be be built perfectly - no voids, wrinkles, etc. Aerospace components have a service life. The service life is when it is removed from service as a precaution, not because the part is compromised.

Carbon bicycle components are not built to aerospace spec. No bike frame is perfect. On the contrary, they are far from perfect and many carbon frames last decades. The service life of any carbon bicycle component can be indefinite. Bike components don't have to be removed from service just because of age or miles or hours of use.

As to "damaged very easily," I'll just point out that big hit downhill mountain bikes are made of carbon fiber.


-Tim-
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Old 06-02-19, 06:12 PM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by daviddavieboy View Post
If you want to talk about weight I have a 1970 steel that weighs 24 lbs which is not bad for the age and a 2014 all carbon that weighs 19lbs. If I fasted a day I probably be lighter on the 50 year old bike.
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Old 06-02-19, 06:16 PM
  #256  
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I rode Elephant Rock in Colorado today. They claim 7000 riders, I donít know, it wasnít that crowded.

Anyway, I saw a guy on an Independent, a guy on some 70s beauty, me on my Tallerico, and a Davidson. I didnít see everybody but I did see hundreds of bikes or more. Does the guy on the Penny Farthing count?

From that sample, this isnít even a debate anymore. There are statistically no steel bikes.

I still like mine.
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Old 06-02-19, 06:57 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I do it because they all have TANKS and I look good huffing and puffing.
My steel Guru weighs 17 lb 13 oz or thereabouts. I have that college football player body and weigh in at 190 lbs. Rides like a "wet noodle"? Hardly.[/QUOTE]

I don't tend to ride wet noodles though, I tend to eat them with a nice sauce.
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Old 06-02-19, 07:06 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
Perhaps you should have stayed for more physics. Mass accelerated by gravity is dependent upon the various sorts of resistance to motion to achieve speed. That is why fat guys go down hills faster than thin climbers.
One going down and one going UP, I'm so confused!
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Old 06-02-19, 07:48 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by Juggy_Gales View Post
Ok I keep hearing and seeing quotes about "Steel is Real".

What is with the fascination? I am assuming it is related to steel framed bikes.. but why is this the thing now?

Im not mocking steel bikes.. they are robust.. very rugged.. But aren't they a bit heavy too?
With everyone trying to be light and go carbon.. Im seeing so much "Steel is Real"
Steel gets a bad rap because your average person gets theirs out a couple times a year, does no maintenance to it, rides it. They sound scissory as they go down the trail where I ride.

A lady broke down, I stopped to help, there wasn't anything I could do, that bike needed help everywhere it was in such disrepair. It's sad, but that's your average steel bike.

My carbon fiber bike glides through air as I ride, leaving little disruption, all one hears is silence, or the swoosh of my pedals. I love my carbon fiber bike, but in 4 years I'll be thinking about getting a new one. At my age, I'll not be getting anymore muscle, my lungs won't be expanding to absorb more oxygen, so in the pursuit of free speed, I will upgrade. I like how the cycling industry has advanced, and enjoy using the new upgrades, steel, for me, feels like I'm taking a step backwards, sorry.
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Old 06-03-19, 03:32 AM
  #260  
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Steel is good enough for me, a couple of pounds heavier than more expensive alternatives does not matter since I do not compete in races.
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Old 06-03-19, 05:15 AM
  #261  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
My steel Guru weighs 17 lb 13 oz or thereabouts. I have that college football player body and weigh in at 190 lbs. Rides like a "wet noodle"? Hardly.
I don't tend to ride wet noodles though, I tend to eat them with a nice sauce.[/QUOTE]

I would go with a Puttanesca.
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Old 06-03-19, 11:27 AM
  #262  
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I don't tend to ride wet noodles though, I tend to eat them with a nice sauce.
I would go with a Puttanesca.[/QUOTE]

Frames should definitely be al dente.
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Old 06-03-19, 04:33 PM
  #263  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I would go with a Puttanesca.
Frames should definitely be al dente.[/QUOTE]

Unless they're CF. Then we're talking crackers.
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Old 06-04-19, 08:19 AM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by NeilBurt View Post
Steel gets a bad rap because your average person gets theirs out a couple times a year, does no maintenance to it, rides it. They sound scissory as they go down the trail where I ride.

A lady broke down, I stopped to help, there wasn't anything I could do, that bike needed help everywhere it was in such disrepair. It's sad, but that's your average steel bike.

My carbon fiber bike glides through air as I ride, leaving little disruption, all one hears is silence, or the swoosh of my pedals. I love my carbon fiber bike, but in 4 years I'll be thinking about getting a new one. At my age, I'll not be getting anymore muscle, my lungs won't be expanding to absorb more oxygen, so in the pursuit of free speed, I will upgrade. I like how the cycling industry has advanced, and enjoy using the new upgrades, steel, for me, feels like I'm taking a step backwards, sorry.
My $20 steel bike is silent too... 🤷*♂️
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Old 06-04-19, 08:28 AM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by Commutess View Post
It depends. Carbon fiber production needs to be done perfectly to have all the attributes for longevity. So, you must really trust the manufacturer. The biggest issue is that carbon fiber can get damaged very easily which compromises the integrity. It can be repaired, but then again, you have to trust the repair or have a possible catastrophic failure.
There is another thing: A friend of mine had his Colnago C40 simply fall apart. At the time this happened he was going about 5 mph riding up onto a bicycle path. 20 minutes later he would have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge and been descending into Sausalito at 40 mph.

Now he will not touch carbon fiber anything and had custom Italian steel bikes made for himself and his wife. Every time carbon fiber is mentioned now he says that all of these carbon fiber parts will break like glass. And since the simple little crash broke his finger in such a manner that it is paralyzed you can understand him.

I also have three carbon fiber forks break on me. But I'm an engineer and understand the learning curve of using new materials. To my mind we have matured the carbon fiber construction techniques and design.

But having an intellectual conviction and not having it come up in your mind as you're descending at 40 mph are two different things. Especially when you have car traffic speeding by. So even though I know that there are any number of things that could fail and dump you into the path of a speeding car I end up slowing up all the time as the "breaking like glass" comment passes through my mind on steep descents. And this despite the fact that I am only VERY seldom passed on descents.

I also know that of all the steel bikes I've owned not a one of them has failed. And I have a serious concussion, 2 years walking and talking and not being there until I was on the verge of dying from not even remembering to eat until my NCIS friend took me to Stanford University medical center and they suggested a neurologist who treated it properly. I have to take $100 of pills a month that destroy my sense of balance for the rest of my life. So it is a good thing that bicycles balance themselves. So having an early carbon fiber fork actually explode like a gunshot goes through my mind whenever I'm riding non-steel frames and forks.

Modern bicycles are made for lightness. Aluminum wheelsets wear out RAPIDLY. Steel and aluminum frames and forks cannot be repaired. While CF frames can be repaired (NOT FORKS) and CF wheels with rim brakes have about the same lifespan as lightweight aluminum wheelsets, everyone is going to have their own tastes. I am a 75 year old sports riding and my worrying about 5lbs difference in overall weight of a frame would be silly. I have two steel bikes, two aluminum bikes and two carbon fiber bikes. My average speed over known courses with climbing on them is within fractional mph and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the 5 lb difference in weight from the lightest to the heaviest. It is far more dependent upon how I feel that way.

So buy the bike that you want to buy and not what someone tells you that you should. I can tell you absolutely I would NOT buy disk brake, electric shifting, titanium bikes or super light CF bikes. Paying $10,000 for one of these strikes me as the height of ignorance. A Cat 1 racer couldn't tell the difference between that an old DeRosa with worn Campagnolo 9 speed shifting. There is FAR more difference between cheap and expensive tires.

So high quality is not the material but the workmanship and that has been around for decades.

Last edited by RiceAWay; 06-04-19 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 06-04-19, 10:43 AM
  #266  
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I think now would be a good time to take a deep breath, pour a fresh cup of coffee and summarize what we have learned in this thread. So far we have concluded the following:


  • Carbon forks feel more "skittish" going down hill
  • Aluminum is not good for long distances
  • Titanium is steel
  • Carbon cannot be repaired
  • Steel can be subjected to an infinite amount of flex
  • CF bikes accelerate to top speed several seconds faster than steel bikes
  • Carbon is just a bunch of plastic held together with some epoxy and it's weak and fragile
  • a frame is steel for a reason
  • Steel is only good if you weigh no more than 150-160 lbs
  • Weight only matters for competition
  • All you need to build a bike is a torch and some brazing rod. A guy can do it in his garage.
  • A 1983 Miyata 710 and Emonda ALR are the same bike
  • People who ride high end carbon frames are at least 45 lb heavier than people who ride steel frames
  • Steel is best for keeping track of wheel magnets
  • Steel bikes go faster downhill due to gravitational pull
  • aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life
  • Carbon fiber glides through air and is silent

This thread has been really great for me. Such a great resource. I've learned a lot. This should be a sticky.



-Tim

Last edited by TimothyH; 06-04-19 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 06-04-19, 10:51 AM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I think now would be a good time to take a deep breath, pour a fresh cup of coffee and summarize what we have learned in this thread. So far we have concluded the following:



  • Carbon forks feel more "skittish" going down hill
  • Aluminum is not good for long distances
  • Titanium is steel
  • Carbon cannot be repaired
  • Steel can be subjected to an infinite amount of flex
  • CF bikes accelerate to top speed several seconds faster than steel bikes
  • Carbon is just a bunch of plastic held together with some epoxy and it's weak and fragile
  • a frame is steel for a reason
  • Steel is only good if you weigh no more than 150-160 lbs
  • Weight only matters for competition
  • All you need to build a bike is a torch and some brazing rod. A guy can do it in his garage.
  • A 1983 Miyata 710 and Emonda ALR are the same bike
  • People who ride high end carbon frames are at least 45 lb heavier than people who ride steel frames
  • Steel is best for keeping track of wheel magnets
  • Steel bikes go faster downhill due to gravitational pull
  • aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life
  • Carbon fiber glides through air and is silent

This thread has been really great for me. I've learned a lot. We should make this thread a sticky for those deciding on a new bike.



-Tim
Needs noodles.
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Old 06-04-19, 10:51 AM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I think now would be a good time to take a deep breath, pour a fresh cup of coffee and summarize what we have learned in this thread. So far we have concluded the following:


  • Carbon forks feel more "skittish" going down hill
  • Aluminum is not good for long distances
  • Titanium is steel
  • Carbon cannot be repaired
  • Steel can be subjected to an infinite amount of flex
  • CF bikes accelerate to top speed several seconds faster than steel bikes
  • Carbon is just a bunch of plastic held together with some epoxy and it's weak and fragile
  • a frame is steel for a reason
  • Steel is only good if you weigh no more than 150-160 lbs
  • Weight only matters for competition
  • All you need to build a bike is a torch and some brazing rod. A guy can do it in his garage.
  • A 1983 Miyata 710 and Emonda ALR are the same bike
  • People who ride high end carbon frames are at least 45 lb heavier than people who ride steel frames
  • Steel is best for keeping track of wheel magnets
  • Steel bikes go faster downhill due to gravitational pull
  • aluminum and carbon fiber have a shelf life
  • Carbon fiber glides through air and is silent

This thread has been really great for me. I've learned a lot.



-Tim
Ha! That's classic!
Thanks for the laugh

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Old 06-04-19, 10:46 PM
  #269  
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The only reasonable solution is to have one each: carbonfiber, titanium, steel and aluminum. I just completed my collection this spring and now wonder what to spend money on. Oh, and they're all great bikes, work perfectly, are comfortable and beautiful.

Ooo, ooo ooo - just remembered, I gotta get a bamboo frame!
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Old 06-05-19, 01:34 AM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
The only reasonable solution is to have one each: carbonfiber, titanium, steel and aluminum. I just completed my collection this spring and now wonder what to spend money on. Oh, and they're all great bikes, work perfectly, are comfortable and beautiful.

Ooo, ooo ooo - just remembered, I gotta get a bamboo frame!
There are also scandium frames (well, in fact they are aluminum alloys too, but are considerably lighter than conventional aluminum alloy frames). KONAWORLD.COM

And then there are wooden frames. https://materiabikes.com/#bikes
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Old 06-05-19, 11:06 AM
  #271  
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And magnesium too.
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Old 06-05-19, 11:28 AM
  #272  
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I still want one made of wet noodle.
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