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Bread Bags, Platoons and the Definitive Way to Pronounce 'Pannier'...

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Bread Bags, Platoons and the Definitive Way to Pronounce 'Pannier'...

Old 05-23-19, 07:01 AM
  #1  
BobbyG
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Bread Bags, Platoons and the Definitive Way to Pronounce 'Pannier'...

Russ Roca from the "Path Less Pedalled" goes above and beyond to get to the bottom of the 'pannier' pronunciation issue. (Although 'the bottom of the pannier' would technically be a 'cul-de-sac'.)

Discussion of the word "peloton" at 9 minutes in; plus what do the French call "panniers" a litttle after that.

Enjoy!

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Old 05-23-19, 09:34 AM
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Like Abertoir , It was borrowed from French...
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Old 05-23-19, 09:43 AM
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First, choose a favorite bike shop ... then, pronounce "pannier" however they do ....
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Old 05-23-19, 10:57 AM
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That was not the answer I was expecting. Very interesting history.
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Old 05-23-19, 11:03 AM
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Before listening to the explanation I'll say that English has words presumably derived from French like bombardier and grenadier and the 'dier' part is pronounced like 'deer'.

On the other hand, I always pronounce 'pannier' with a 'y' - 'pan-yer'.

Last edited by guachi; 05-23-19 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 05-23-19, 11:18 AM
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Can't watch videos at work, but it has always been my understanding that it comes from a bag traditionally used to carry bread.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:03 PM
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What I want to know is, what's the correct way to pronounce Tour de "France", is it Frantz, not Frahnce? GIVEN: I'm in the US when I'm saying it.
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Old 05-23-19, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Riveting View Post
What I want to know is, what's the correct way to pronounce Tour de "France", is it Frantz, not Frahnce? GIVEN: I'm in the US when I'm saying it.
Say it just the way Bob Roll does
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Old 05-23-19, 12:24 PM
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In France they pronounce "French" as "français".
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Old 05-23-19, 12:26 PM
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Must have been a few BF members commenting on his YouTube channel to get banned.
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Old 05-23-19, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Can't watch videos at work, but it has always been my understanding that it comes from a bag traditionally used to carry bread.
Spoiler alert--the surprise is when the word was borrowed.
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Old 05-23-19, 03:22 PM
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Ok, but how do you pronounce "shibboleth"?
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Old 05-23-19, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rgconner View Post
Ok, but how do you pronounce "shibboleth"?
Correctly. Is there more than one English pronunciation? It's almost identical to the original Hebrew.
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Old 05-23-19, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Correctly. Is there more than one English pronunciation? It's almost identical to the original Hebrew.
Ah... you must be a member of the correct society then.
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Old 05-23-19, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rgconner View Post
Ah... you must be a member of the correct society then.
Yeah, we slew all the sibboletters.
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Old 05-23-19, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Like Abertoir , It was borrowed from French...
I think we gave that one back and kept "abbatoir."
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Old 05-23-19, 11:22 PM
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This thread is clearly an American problems thread. Anyone who can't pronnounce 'mirror' and thinks 'aluminium' rhymes with 'hooligan' is frankly a lost cause.

The yanks have worked hard to reduce syllables from their daily vocals, that much is clear to the billions of us foreigners who speak English. Including the English, like myself.
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Old 05-24-19, 04:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
This thread is clearly an American problems thread. Anyone who can't pronnounce 'mirror' and thinks 'aluminium' rhymes with 'hooligan' is frankly a lost cause.

The yanks have worked hard to reduce syllables from their daily vocals, that much is clear to the billions of us foreigners who speak English. Including the English, like myself.
I'm totally going to start saying "alooligan."
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Old 05-24-19, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by clengman View Post
I'm totally going to start saying "alooligan."
The next leap forward in frame material.
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Old 05-24-19, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
This thread is clearly an American problems thread. Anyone who can't pronnounce 'mirror' and thinks 'aluminium' rhymes with 'hooligan' is frankly a lost cause.

The yanks have worked hard to reduce syllables from their daily vocals, that much is clear to the billions of us foreigners who speak English. Including the English, like myself.

However, the American pronunciation of "garage" is actually closer to the original in French. English has been incorporating French ( or Norman French, really) since 1066. As the expert points out, the adoption of the term often spawns its own etymology in the language of the borrower. Spanish has incorporated Arabic terms since the days of the Moors. Some of those words ( "sofa" comes to mind, at the moment) have subsequently been borrowed by English, from the Spanish.
How soon before we wade into the quagmire with "derailleur ".
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Old 05-24-19, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
This thread is clearly an American problems thread. Anyone who can't pronnounce 'mirror' and thinks 'aluminium' rhymes with 'hooligan' is frankly a lost cause.

The yanks have worked hard to reduce syllables from their daily vocals, that much is clear to the billions of us foreigners who speak English. Including the English, like myself.
You obviously didn't watch the video--he specifically addresses the fact that the British have a greater tendency to anglicize the pronunciation of French words than do the Americans.

Also, the only reason you pronounce it "aluminium" is because the British changed the spelling, and no one else followed along. We spell and pronounce "aluminum" correctly per the element's original name.

"Hooligan" doesn't even have the right number of syllables or the correct consonants or vowels to rhyme with "aluminum".

As far as working hard to save syllables, nothing we have rivals the British use of "cuppa".

Outside of that, great post! Chock full of observations.
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Old 05-25-19, 04:37 AM
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Who knew peloton and platoon had similar etymology?
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Old 05-25-19, 08:36 AM
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And why do you call it a brake rotor on a car, but a brake disc on a bike? And why is the 'u' missing everywhere? And does an elephant put luggage in their trunk? And does diesel qualify as gas..?
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Old 05-26-19, 03:13 PM
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Someone around here clued me in to the correct pronunciation some time ago: SAD-ul bag.
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Old 05-28-19, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeyMK View Post
And why do you call it a brake rotor on a car, but a brake disc on a bike? And why is the 'u' missing everywhere? And does an elephant put luggage in their trunk? And does diesel qualify as gas..?
And why isn't it "handlesbar" when it's held at both ends, and why is it a "chainstay" if the chain doesn't actually attach to it, and have you seen my baby bolts?
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