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Pedal Downward or Forward on Crank Levers???

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Pedal Downward or Forward on Crank Levers???

Old 05-29-19, 12:16 PM
  #51  
asgelle
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Originally Posted by robnol View Post
upstroke u should be picking ur foot up take the weight off the pedal so u dont have to lift it on the downstroke with the other leg
Doesn’t the weight of the descending leg raise the other without any need to lift it?
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Old 05-29-19, 12:33 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Doesn’t the weight of the descending leg raise the other without any need to lift it?
The more the descending leg is pushing up the ascending leg, the less energy is being transmitted to the wheel. Everyone has some energy "wasted" this way, but apparently pros minimize it by pulling up on the ascending leg to a higher degree.
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Old 05-29-19, 12:40 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
The more the descending leg is pushing up the ascending leg, the less energy is being transmitted to the wheel. Everyone has some energy "wasted" this way, but apparently pros minimize it by pulling up on the ascending leg to a higher degree.
The descending leg doesn’t have to push the other leg up, gravity does that. And you have it wrong; pros don’t pull the ascending leg up. That data was published more than 25 years ago.
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Old 05-29-19, 01:10 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
The descending leg doesn’t have to push the other leg up, gravity does that. And you have it wrong; pros don’t pull the ascending leg up. That data was published more than 25 years ago.
Do you have something that documents this? Gravity pushing things up makes no sense to me, and to the extent that gravity is giving an energy boost to the downward leg, if that boost were not countered by the energy needed to lift the other leg, wouldn't it then be imparted by transmission of the chain to the wheel?
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Old 05-29-19, 01:15 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Do you have something that documents this? Gravity pushing things up makes no sense to me, and to the extent that gravity is giving an energy boost to the downward leg, if that boost were not countered by the energy needed to lift the other leg, wouldn't it then be imparted by transmission of the chain to the wheel?
Forget the legs, forget the rider, get rid of the chain. Put a 10 lb weight on one pedal, what happens? Now put 10 lbs on each pedal, what happens? With 10 lbs on each pedal, how hard do you have to push on one to make the crank spin?
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Old 05-29-19, 01:28 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Forget the legs, forget the rider, get rid of the chain. Put a 10 lb weight on one pedal, what happens? Now put 10 lbs on each pedal, what happens? With 10 lbs on each pedal, how hard do you have to push on one to make the crank spin?
They balance at 1 and 3 o'clock unless I apply force on one to push the other up. I will then have to apply force to the other one to get the first one to go above 3 o'clock, and repeat. In terms of energy expended by me, it's not nothing, it's a little bit repeating again and again. It is a marginal increase in the resistance that it is going to return once I "remember" the chain.

Do you have anything that documents your assertion that the research showing pros do lift their legs was wrong?
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Old 05-29-19, 01:58 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Forget the legs, forget the rider, get rid of the chain. Put a 10 lb weight on one pedal, what happens? Now put 10 lbs on each pedal, what happens? With 10 lbs on each pedal, how hard do you have to push on one to make the crank spin?
There's a wealth of Pioneer, Quarq, and any true-dual sided power meter data that proves you need to give up.

It's even parameters available to be viewed in a Wahoo bike computer/app or in Trainingpeaks (if you pay for premium). Typically called torque effectiveness and pedal smoothness. Typically TE is in the 70's % for a ride overall (easy cruising time and hard efforts averaged) but gets into the 90's if you're actually in a higher power zone (3,4,5,6) and are a stronger rider. Near threshold efforts I see mine get into the 90's these days.

It's data that both disproves pedaling in circles and does prove you can improve efficiency by at least not being really lazy or mentally unaware with the inactive leg.

https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blo...dal-smoothness
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Old 05-29-19, 03:40 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
They balance at 1 and 3 o'clock unless I apply force on one to push the other up. I will then have to apply force to the other one to get the first one to go above 3 o'clock, and repeat. In terms of energy expended by me, it's not nothing, it's a little bit repeating again and again. It is a marginal increase in the resistance that it is going to return once I "remember" the chain.

Do you have anything that documents your assertion that the research showing pros do lift their legs was wrong?
Are you sure they won't balance at everywhere o'clock?

But we'd be slower spinning it up, and harder to slow it down.
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Old 05-29-19, 04:33 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Doesn’t the weight of the descending leg raise the other without any need to lift it?
both legs weigh the same so if ur not lifting ur leg on the up stroke ur other leg has to lift it on the down stroke.....wasted energy
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Old 05-29-19, 04:39 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Forget the legs, forget the rider, get rid of the chain. Put a 10 lb weight on one pedal, what happens? Now put 10 lbs on each pedal, what happens? With 10 lbs on each pedal, how hard do you have to push on one to make the crank spin?
now lift that 10lbs on the upstroke how much more force can be applied on the down stroke without the other 10 all the force is going to the down stroke or power stroke
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Old 05-29-19, 05:06 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
Who needs straps and clamps and clips and blah blah blah blah blah on pedals. Just go out and have fun riding around. YAY!
Yep, that's exactly what I do...I just ignore all the experts advice and go out and have fun riding...It seems like some people get more fun out of arguing about the proper way to pedal than out of riding.
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Old 05-29-19, 05:14 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
Yep, that's exactly what I do...I just ignore all the experts advice and go out and have fun riding...It seems like some people get more fun out of arguing about the proper way to pedal than out of riding.
I have a slightly different approach. I take everything the experts say into consideration. They are not necessarily on this site, btw. Then I try out different things to see what, if any, of it works for me. If I can use some technique to enhance my experience, I'm all for it.
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Old 06-02-19, 03:55 PM
  #63  
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No matter what your 'leg strength', you cannot push any harder on the pedal than your total body weight UNLESS you offset that down-force with some upward force from the opposite leg. As an example, I can 'leg press' over 750 pounds on a Nautilus machine, but if I only weigh 150-or even 200 pounds, I can only apply 150-200 pounds of downward force to the pedals even if I'm standing on the pedal. Simple physics. If you can adjust your pedaling technique to add some force in another crank direction, you'll have the potential to ride faster/farther.

What I advocate, by using a SMOOTH pedal stroke - in my case it was ingrained through the use of riding rollers - is to avoid 'wasted' energy. That energy that one wastes by throwing the bike from side-to-side, or that what causes the rider to ride a not-so-straight line. Economy of motion = more energy at the end of the ride, or a longer ride without feeling totally spent.

A REAL awakening was when I tried to ride rollers with my bike - which has a longer wheelbase - on a set of rollers that was set up for by buddy's bike with a shorter, more 'race' geometry. If I 'mashed' too hard or tried to overpower my balance point, I went off the front of the rollers! That experience taught me to be smooth and not to 'over-power' my pedal stroke.
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Old 06-15-19, 03:56 AM
  #64  
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Since practicing pedaling down and up with each leg, I've seen the results:

Longer stamina at higher speeds - This is so much that it's just stupid to pedal without the up stroke from the legs.
Stronger Hamstrings - This is because they are actively engaging each up stroke.

I can't use the cleats or the straps on the pedals because of what I use the bike for which is off and on, strategy and maneuvers unlike strictly long roads and smooth stretches. Therefore I don't get the full circle into the up stroke.

However my MTB pedals have great, metal pokes that dig into my shoes. By the way I have foam sole shoes, Sketchers to be exact. These metal pokes on the pedals allow me to get some up stroke because the pedal down't just slip off the sole of my shoes. It hooks into the soles instead.

So essentially with my quadriceps I'm "kicking" the pedals over 12 o'clock, and then I'm buckling out my legs with my quads to push the pedals forward and downward. On the other pedal I am using my hamstrings to back kick the pedal in a scooping fashion, and I'm using the hamstrings to slightly bring up the pedal. If I had cleats, I'd have much more propulsion over the pedal on the upward motion as my hip flexors would crank those pedals right up the backside of the circumference. The longer the steel pokes on the pedals, the more propulsion I can add to the pedals on the back side of the circumference because I can add my force without slipping off of the pedal.

Ultimately the result of pedaling with at least a scooping backward motion in each revolution is a hell of a lot more fun. I mean, buddy, it is fast, and it isn't fast with a lot of tiredness. I realize now why the hell this is such a popular sport. LOL It's a friggin' roller coaster. LOL
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Old 06-16-19, 05:39 PM
  #65  
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