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Switching from Shimano to Sram?

Old 05-29-19, 03:07 PM
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mikster
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Switching from Shimano to Sram?

Hello...my bike is currently equipped with the Shimano CS-M8000 11 speed cassette with the XTR derailleur....been hearing a lot about the SRAM XG-1275 12 speed /w GX derailleur and was wondering if its worth switching or are they essentially the same and I'm wasting money.
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Old 05-29-19, 07:25 PM
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Paul Barnard
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You'll gain nothing in a practical sense.
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Old 05-29-19, 07:32 PM
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carlos danger
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Originally Posted by mikster View Post
Hello...my bike is currently equipped with the Shimano CS-M8000 11 speed cassette with the XTR derailleur....been hearing a lot about the SRAM XG-1275 12 speed /w GX derailleur and was wondering if its worth switching or are they essentially the same and I'm wasting money.
you would very much be wasting money. But if you do the switch can i have your xtr RD and shifter??

I have about 10 years experience with both sram and shimano and the best working stuff sram ever managed to produce was the 9 speed stuff. those were just as good as shimanos.

the newer stuff i wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole myself but thats just me. i run at max 9sp systems myself. usually 8sp.

i have feeling though that shimanos stuff started working a lot less good too after 10 and 11sp for the general consumer. its very finicky and needs exact adjustments to work properly. when i put on an 8sp cassette last on a new build i simply eyeballed it and it worked fine and then simply ran that without adjusting anything for 6 months. until the cable stretched. we all pick our battles i guess.

i guess you can have a 45T or so as biggest ring on the cass with the 11sp xtr/shimano system. and maybe a 12sp 50t with sram.
and going from 45 to 50 is only a 10% lower gear. its like moving from a 12t to an 11t. thats also pretty much a 10% move. you do the math.
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Old 05-29-19, 07:45 PM
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I wouldn't if I were you.

I can't speak to their higher end stuff but the mid range is garbage.

If you like being able to shift with both thumb and forefinger on your Shimano shifter, you won't be able to on Sram.

I just bought a Surly Karate Monkey and HATE the 11 speed Sram components that came installed. The shifter doesn't work as well as I would expect. The shifts aren't as crisp. The brakes hydraulic brakes work just fine except they are ugly as sin. The brake levers are horrible. The derailleur feels and looks cheap.

It's a good thing I got the bike at 30% off. I will be changing out the Sram much sooner than needed. I've even thought about stripping my old mountain bike and throwing those parts on my new one. My 'old' 10 speed Shimano Zee is exactly what I expect and am disappointed about the Sram. When I got the Zee it was night and day. The shifting was always an issue with the Sram that came on that bike as well. I was just all around disappointed. I also thought about taking my mechanical disc brakes off and throwing them on the new bike since the hydraulics look and feel horrible.

I'm glad you created this tread. I wanted to tell someone how much I hate the new bike I just bought. The frame is good and very capable. I'll just have to change out the stuff I don't like.

I've heard Sram road isn't bad. In fact I've heard good things. Here's to hoping I'm not disappointed again. I recently started putting together a touring bike with 10 speed Sram road and mountian parts.

Rant over
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Old 05-29-19, 08:06 PM
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I've had SRAM on all my past bikes (NX 11 speed, GX 10 speed) and used to be agnostic and assumed both companies have plus and minus. But after my NX shifter acted up after some hundred miles, i replaced it with XT and can't imagine to ever going back to one of the wobbly SRAM shifting units. I also have an XT en route to replace my 10 speed GX, I didn't even price out a GX 11 or 12 speed. I like the instant release, the double-upshift and the firm feel (very important on shattery paths where my GX sometimes accidentally double-shifts).

I never tried their Eagle, so they may have improved.
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Old 05-30-19, 02:17 AM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by gil_00000 View Post
... I've heard Sram road isn't bad. In fact I've heard good things. Here's to hoping I'm not disappointed again. I recently started putting together a touring bike with 10 speed Sram road and mountian parts ...
I'm curious why you'd do that after having such a bad experience?

Having said that, I've recently bought a bike with Force 22 groupset and I'm very happy with it. Changes are smooth and precise, it all looks very pretty and after almost 2,000 miles it still feels like new.
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Old 05-30-19, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
I'm curious why you'd do that after having such a bad experience?

Having said that, I've recently bought a bike with Force 22 groupset and I'm very happy with it. Changes are smooth and precise, it all looks very pretty and after almost 2,000 miles it still feels like new.
(Edit- I did all this before I bought the new mountain bike)

There were a few reasons behind my decision. Namely I decided I wanted to see what the Sram double tap was like on the road shifters. A good friend loves his Sram road components but also hates the mountain stuff.

I also really wanted to build up an old bike I have that I wasn't too satisfied with in its current build. I have an '88 Schwinn Voyageur. I rescued it from a co-op. It was in sad shape. No one was going to do anything with it. It had sat where it was for almost a whole year. I didn't want to watch it spend another winter in the outdoor storage area and rot. So I snagged it up and over a few weekends built it to what it was. Everything was garbage. I only used the headset, canti brakes, frame and fork. Had all the other parts from different previous builds. I put some Suntour XCD and GPX I had collecting dust. Mix of road and mountain for a larger cassette. It looked nice but it wasn't as practical for anything other than around town. I was all about the down tube shifters until I used brake and shift combo. I lost interest for long rides with down tube shifters. I also like the brake hood shape of newer gear. Older brake hoods aren't as comfortable.

Knowing I wanted the old bike with new components I decided over the gray winter I would get excited about bikes by buying what I needed. With the build in mind I ended up buying a pair of Apex 2x10 shifters from the local bike shop. They were running a sale over the winter and I really like their knowledge and decided to give them business. At the local co-op I picked up an Apex crankset. I got a new bottom bracket and chainring. I got lucky and found a rear mech and cassette both new in box rummaging in my parts box. So I used all that.

I also learned that the Sram 10 speed mountain and road components are compatible. 10 speed being the last generation of the compatibility. I wanted a larger rear cassette than available with a road mech. So I went with

Last reason was a bit of a gamble. Since I've heard good things about the road gear, if I hated the proposed set up I could always just build up a road bike. If that wasn't the case, well then I helped fuel some consumerism.

Hows the bike? I have no idea. I'm looking into a different canti brake set up since the spacing of the canti posts are different in those days. I switched to 700c wheels from the original 27". The brakes don't line up correctly. I also got the crank set installed and it apparently needs a spacer that it doesn't have. I may know a way around that. Also, I'm one of those with more ideas than time to actually get them all accomplished. With multiple bikes certain bikes take the back burner. I'm getting my older mountain bike together so I can invite a coworker out to ride with. I took it apart over the winter to strip the paint on the aluminum frame since I had never done that before. Its just bare aluminum now until I decide to paint it.

Last edited by gil_00000; 05-30-19 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 05-30-19, 05:04 AM
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Love love love SRAM Road

one lever to shift up and down (=genius)
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Old 05-30-19, 05:15 AM
  #9  
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Not been that impressed with SRAM in the past, tend to view them as inferior to Shimano for the equivalent groupset. Experience based on entry to mid-level mountain bike groupsets and low end hybrid/comfort bike type components not proper road bike components. I've actually found Microshift better than SRAM generally although I think SRAM twist shifters were actually made by Microshift so they were definitely similar quality. SRAM outsources much more production than Shimano who I think outsource mainly for very low end components. The issue mainly for me is long term reliability they don't seem to last as long in my experience. Always look for Shimano components on bikes even if they lack some features of SRAM.
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Old 05-30-19, 07:34 AM
  #10  
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My experience on road bikes is limited to newer SRAM Red 10 sp, 15 yr. old 10 sp Dura Ace and brand new 11 sp. 105. This is my experience: The SRAM shifts deliberately with a notable mechanical feel while the Shimano shifts more "smoothly" for lack of a better term. Sort of the difference between cars with manual transmission or paddle shifters. For equal levels of product the SRAM will be lighter. The SRAM needs to be more carefully dialed in. I like both systems and have no problem with either.
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Old 05-30-19, 07:45 AM
  #11  
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Every mountain style bike that I build runs a 2x10 drive train built on XTR shifters and XT derailleurs. I know the Shimano number schema and the prices haven't changed much with the recent lock down of regional pricing. Shimano components are commonly available, provide close enough ranges, and they work every darned time.

So far, I have built up.
Surly Karate Monkey.
Lynsky M290 Ti.
Foundry Firetower.
Foundry Broadaxe
Curtlo custom tandem.

I had one mountain bike with a lower end SRam drive train. The rear derailleur broke the first time out.
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Old 05-30-19, 08:57 AM
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I ride Campagnolo exclusively on my road bikes but if I were to go with a mtb group it would be Shimano. SRAM is crap.
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Old 05-30-19, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mikster View Post
Hello...my bike is currently equipped with the Shimano CS-M8000 11 speed cassette with the XTR derailleur....been hearing a lot about the SRAM XG-1275 12 speed /w GX derailleur and was wondering if its worth switching or are they essentially the same and I'm wasting money.
After blowing through two GX 12-speed derailleurs in one year, we (me and the kid who owns the bike) were seriously considering upgrading [sic] to an XT 11-speed. (In the end, we found we could use a Box 11-speed X-wide derailleur with the SRAM 12 speed drivetrain and shifter). Our experience is apparently not unique, and it has put me off SRAM for life (the brakes are even worse).
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Old 05-30-19, 08:30 PM
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Wow thanks for all the replies. I guess I'm better off sticking with Shimano.....Hmm.....I'm quick new to all of this so don't mind if my questions are way out of tune but is it possible to run the "2019 Shimano XTR 9100: 10-51 12spd cassette" on my current setup (Shimano CS-M8000 cassette 11spd , XTR RD-M9000 derailleur, XTR shifter)?? I guess the ultimate question is can i run 12spd on my current 11spd setup?
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Old 05-30-19, 08:42 PM
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FWIW, Shimano just today announced 12-speed XT.

I think the XTR 12-speed and the SRAM 12-speed each use unique freehubs that are incompatible with your current setup, as well as each other. (I have no idea what the story will be for the 12-speed XT.) So that means you would have to change out the entire drivetrain and most likely need a new rear wheel. All this to gain one gear?
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Old 05-30-19, 09:22 PM
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If you do switch keep the shimano parts so you can put them back on.

You will too
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Old 05-31-19, 02:53 AM
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I built a sram gx ten speed one by , love it , shimano sucks lloll
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Old 05-31-19, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mikster View Post
Wow thanks for all the replies. I guess I'm better off sticking with Shimano.....Hmm.....I'm quick new to all of this so don't mind if my questions are way out of tune but is it possible to run the "2019 Shimano XTR 9100: 10-51 12spd cassette" on my current setup (Shimano CS-M8000 cassette 11spd , XTR RD-M9000 derailleur, XTR shifter)?? I guess the ultimate question is can i run 12spd on my current 11spd setup?
The short answer is no. The new Shimano 12-speed groups require a new Micro Spline freehub, so not a direct replacement for your 11-speed components. The new freehub is only currently available on DT Swiss, Industry Nine, and Shimano wheelsets as well. Not to mention availability of any Shimano 12-speed components is really limited at the moment.

Is there an issue with your current setup that you're trying to solve with a 12-speed drivetrain? Range with the 11-46 Shimano cassettes is pretty wide, and you can always move up or down a size on your front chainring to adjust range up or down.

Another thing to consider- if you are new to the sport and unfamiliar with maintaining/adjusting your bike, the 12-speed drivetrains are much more sensitive to adjustment and expensive to replace (if you're learning via crashing!). I'd keep your XT setup, and just replace pieces as they wear out- Shimano 11-speed parts are super affordable.
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Old 05-31-19, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mpls85 View Post
The short answer is no. The new Shimano 12-speed groups require a new Micro Spline freehub, so not a direct replacement for your 11-speed components. The new freehub is only currently available on DT Swiss, Industry Nine, and Shimano wheelsets as well. Not to mention availability of any Shimano 12-speed components is really limited at the moment.

Is there an issue with your current setup that you're trying to solve with a 12-speed drivetrain? Range with the 11-46 Shimano cassettes is pretty wide, and you can always move up or down a size on your front chainring to adjust range up or down.

Another thing to consider- if you are new to the sport and unfamiliar with maintaining/adjusting your bike, the 12-speed drivetrains are much more sensitive to adjustment and expensive to replace (if you're learning via crashing!). I'd keep your XT setup, and just replace pieces as they wear out- Shimano 11-speed parts are super affordable.
You can use one of the HG 12-speed cassettes. the new microspline hyperglide cassettes and chains are just better, but not necessary. Manufacturers want to tell you you need everything from the groupset, but you don't. Same for crank and chainring that can come from a different manufacturer. I wish people would stop giving advice that sounds like you need to upgrade everything to get a specific derailleur.
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Old 05-31-19, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
You can use one of the HG 12-speed cassettes. the new microspline hyperglide cassettes and chains are just better, but not necessary. Manufacturers want to tell you you need everything from the groupset, but you don't. Same for crank and chainring that can come from a different manufacturer. I wish people would stop giving advice that sounds like you need to upgrade everything to get a specific derailleur.
My intention wasn't to imply that you have to have a matching groupset. OP sounds new to MTB drivetrains and specifically mentioned GX Eagle and new XTR 9100, neither of which are compatible with his/her current HG freehub. And to be clear, none of the new Shimano 12-speed cassettes will be compatible with HG freehubs- everything they've released so far (XTR 9100, XT 8100, and SLX 7100) will use micro spline for the cassette.

But yes, you could use a SRAM NX Eagle 12-speed cassette paired with Shimano 12-speed derailleur/shifter, and existing cranks with a new front chainring (as an example). Just thought that might add further confusion for the OP.
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Old 05-31-19, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mpls85 View Post
My intention wasn't to imply that you have to have a matching groupset. OP sounds new to MTB drivetrains and specifically mentioned GX Eagle and new XTR 9100, neither of which are compatible with his/her current HG freehub. And to be clear, none of the new Shimano 12-speed cassettes will be compatible with HG freehubs- everything they've released so far (XTR 9100, XT 8100, and SLX 7100) will use micro spline for the cassette.

But yes, you could use a SRAM NX Eagle 12-speed cassette paired with Shimano 12-speed derailleur/shifter, and existing cranks with a new front chainring (as an example). Just thought that might add further confusion for the OP.
You can use a GX Eagle derailleur with an xD, HG or the HG+ cassette. To the RD it only matters the spacing between cogs is the same or nearly the same.

You cannot put an xD cassette on non-xD drivers, and same with HG and microspline. That is true. But the GX Eagle Rd will work with a xD SRAM, HG Sunrace or Microspline Shimano cassette. Same for sunrace 12-speed RD, or the Shimano 12-speed RD.
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Old 05-31-19, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mikster View Post
Wow thanks for all the replies. I guess I'm better off sticking with Shimano.....Hmm.....I'm quick new to all of this so don't mind if my questions are way out of tune but is it possible to run the "2019 Shimano XTR 9100: 10-51 12spd cassette" on my current setup (Shimano CS-M8000 cassette 11spd , XTR RD-M9000 derailleur, XTR shifter)?? I guess the ultimate question is can i run 12spd on my current 11spd setup?
dont do it. its bad enough as it is.
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Old 06-01-19, 09:17 AM
  #23  
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Fair enough I will keep my XTR setup....Just a question for any of you that owns the XTR derailleur and shifter...should my gear shifting feel super crisp and smooth compared to the Sram GX?? I manage to get my hands on a GX system yesterday and their shifting felt a lot smoother then mine which lead me to think that my setup is probably off tune...i mean XTR is support to me a level higher then the GX no?
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Old 06-01-19, 09:33 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by mikster View Post
Fair enough I will keep my XTR setup....Just a question for any of you that owns the XTR derailleur and shifter...should my gear shifting feel super crisp and smooth compared to the Sram GX?? I manage to get my hands on a GX system yesterday and their shifting felt a lot smoother then mine which lead me to think that my setup is probably off tune...i mean XTR is support to me a level higher then the GX no?
Take this for what it's worth. I've never had 11 speed anything. I have heard the newer drivetrain systems do require more precise adjustment. I have a 1x10 Shimano Zee set up and its bomb proof. I haven't had a single problem, once it was adjusted correctly. But then again I do my own maintenance and do it frequently. I've have perfect feeling shifting since the day I installed it.

Having said that, shifting issues can be attributed to many things. You may be better of dropping it off at a shop if you aren't too sure of the correct solution.

It could be your cables are stretched and need adjusting, or just a simple replacement. You may have dry housing that needs a couple drops of lube. Or, depending on how old they are need replacing. Your derailleur could be damaged, but probably not. I would rule out the other simple adjustments before I went that route. You may have a bent derailleur hanger. That's actually fairly common and a really easy fix. You would just need a new hanger. If you don't know, hanger clips are very specific to each bike. Once you know your bike model and year you can get a new one. Again a shop should be able to help with that if it becomes too much hassle or you're unsure. All shops should have a tool to measure your hanger to see if it is indeed bent. If its only slightly bent they may be able to bend it back without replacing.

All the above issues I mentioned apply to almost all bikes regardless of the age and number of gears.

Hope that all helps
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Old 06-01-19, 09:54 AM
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I will take it to the shop this week to have it looked at...Will i notice any performance difference if I upgraded my current CS-M8000 cassette to the XTR-CS9000 cassette...aside from the weight difference?
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