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What is 410 steel bicycle tubing?

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What is 410 steel bicycle tubing?

Old 06-16-19, 03:58 PM
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riverdrifter
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What is 410 steel bicycle tubing?

I recently bought a 1986 Raleigh Sport that is designated as "all steel Raleigh 410 tubing". What is that?

I've seen one post that said it's the same as what is now referred to as "hi-ten" steel. Is this correct?

Thanks!
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Old 06-16-19, 06:26 PM
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Most likely. The numbers usually refer to the metallurgical mix in the tubing but that Asian bike might just have a sticker so it has something to proclaim. As we used to say about some bikes, "All the CroMo is in the sticker." However, the Google tells us that 410 is stainless but I doubt your bike is made of that.
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Old 06-16-19, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by thumpism View Post
Most likely. The numbers usually refer to the metallurgical mix in the tubing but that Asian bike might just have a sticker so it has something to proclaim. As we used to say about some bikes, "All the CroMo is in the sticker." However, the Google tells us that 410 is stainless but I doubt your bike is made of that.
Thanks. Yeah I saw the references to 410 stainless, but figured that's a more modern designation.
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Old 06-17-19, 03:37 PM
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They don't even spec the tubing in the catalog, so it's a good bet that they used straight-gauge high-tensile steel for the Sports model. As they had for decades and decades before.
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Old 06-17-19, 03:45 PM
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I think you’re referring to 4130.
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Old 06-17-19, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
I think you’re referring to 4130.
The good stuff! Chromoly!

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Old 06-17-19, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
They don't even spec the tubing in the catalog, so it's a good bet that they used straight-gauge high-tensile steel for the Sports model. As they had for decades and decades before.
So this 410 stuff is probably the same run-of-the-mill tubing that was always used on the Sports?
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Old 06-17-19, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by George View Post
I think you’re referring to 4130.
This bike definitely says 410.

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Old 06-17-19, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
So this 410 stuff is probably the same run-of-the-mill tubing that was always used on the Sports?
That's my thinking. Maybe not the same exact alloy as was used in 1936, but you have to think that if they were using chromoly and/or butted tubing on this model, they'd say so. You don't keep that kind of thing a secret if you can charge more for it.
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Old 06-17-19, 06:14 PM
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Most of the old Raleigh 3 speeds were 1020, 2030, and possibly 1040 steel.

1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).

All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.

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Old 06-17-19, 07:51 PM
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I like the way you think, @dedhed.
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
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Old 06-17-19, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Most of the old Raleigh 3 speeds were 1020, 2030, and possibly 1040 steel.

1020 is a low carbon (0.20%), low nickel steel. The 20xx series are higher nickel alloys with more carbon (0.30% for 2030, 0.40% for 2040). The 41xx series are chrome molybdenum alloys (with 4130 being what most "chro-mo" frames use).

All steel alloys basically have the same density (weight per cc). What changes is strength. The 1020 steels are down around 410 MPa, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this may be where the "410" designation comes from the 20xx steels around 480 MPa, and 4130 is around 590 MPa. As strength goes up, tube walls can be made thinner which makes the frame lighter. In theory a straight gauge 4130 frame can be 43% lighter than 1020 and 23% lighter than 2030. In actuality, the "high-ten" frames were often over-built for durability and to allow for steel quality variation, so two or more times the weight of a 4130 frame is not uncommon.
That's great! Thank you, that makes complete sense!
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Old 06-17-19, 08:06 PM
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Besides "410" has more cachet than "The cheap heavy stuff"
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Old 06-17-19, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Besides "410" has more cachet than "The cheap heavy stuff"
Plus the sticker brags: "All Steel Tubes" !
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Old 06-17-19, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Besides "410" has more cachet than "The cheap heavy stuff"
My Fuji VaLite has you by 4 @riverdrifter

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Old 06-18-19, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Deal4Fuji View Post
My Fuji VaLite has you by 4 @riverdrifter

Funny! I guess they must be "very similar" metals. Hey your Fuji is an AWESOME color! I never set out to like this color, but now I have 2 bikes that are both that color.
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Old 06-18-19, 08:28 AM
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If you build with a higher strength steel , you can use less to do the job (thinner tube wall) but that costs more

And requires a more careful building, slowing production volume.. per hour ..
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