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Ask your wife, girlfriend, mother

Old 07-02-19, 11:43 AM
  #101  
BillyD
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
I asked all three and they all said the same thing. Pics please.
I asked all three too, they all said “Get a life”. Harsh. 😢
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Old 07-02-19, 11:50 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
I thought that riding with arms locked at any time is bad form or a sign of poor bike fit?

It certainly isn't stylish. The posture of the guys in the top photo are more natural. Maybe head tubes were taller back in the day.


-Tim-
Seat-bar drop was certainly less on road bikes.

No to neon.

Wife says to eat more.
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Old 07-02-19, 12:50 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
Only those people who are coming out of a deficient public school system would have to Google that.
Well, I may have come out of a public school system in a working class town, but I got a damn fine education and was well prepared for university. And I didn't have to Google that. Miss Ward made sure we all knew our Greek myths.
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Old 07-02-19, 12:57 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
A full and comprehensive education happens thru life outside the classroom. There simply isn't enough time for everything and some subjects must be sought out after school hours.
Given the options for what to cut, Greek Mythology should always come first.
You simply can't justify it over math, various sciences, various history classes, social studies, geography, practical life(welding, auto repair, wood working, design, etc), art, music, and more.

Knowing the name of a random fake person that was one of many children to a fake king and who rolled a fake rock up a hill over and over is not an accurate measure of a well rounded education.

When you say 'all the classics', what exactly do you mean? So we have Greek mythology, then Norse mythology of course, since that historically influenced so much of Europe. Add in Egyptian too as that was so influential in the Meso mideastern part of the world. Then obviously all of Indian and Chinese mythology too since, you know, those are kinda sorta huge areas of historical influence. Roman mythology is another obvious requirement due to the vast expanse of the Roman empire.

Ha, laying (only some) them out makes it so clearly unrealistic. But hey, you are entitled to your opinion.
It's very difficult to read Shakespeare if you haven't had a good foundation in classics - especially Greek Mythology. Or perhaps we should just leave out Shakespeare as well since only math and science have any value? In addition to a good foundation in the classics and English and American literature, I also learned French well enough to read French classic literature in the original French. Oh, and I learned calculus, physics and chemistry as well. I hold a degree in Engineering. Not bad for the daughter of a bricklayer.
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Old 07-02-19, 01:06 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by NomarsGirl View Post
It's very difficult to read Shakespeare if you haven't had a good foundation in classics - especially Greek Mythology. Or perhaps we should just leave out Shakespeare as well since only math and science have any value? In addition to a good foundation in the classics and English and American literature, I also learned French well enough to read French classic literature in the original French. Oh, and I learned calculus, physics and chemistry as well. I hold a degree in Engineering. Not bad for the daughter of a bricklayer.
And Shakespearean costumes look a lot like bike kit, so we're back on topic!
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Old 07-02-19, 01:18 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Locked elbows = the modern riders are rolling along slowly in the neutralized zone, having just departed the start line, or are at some other point in the race where they're taking it easy.
Yep. Somewhere at home I have a photo I took at the start of the final stage of the 2013 Giro. Lots of riders in the same position.
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Old 07-02-19, 01:18 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
All dark color kit is the only thing I'd object to because it's just so stupid from a safety perspective.

Otherwise, if I think y'all look like you're stuffed into sausage skins and wearing clown shoes, I'll keep that to myself.
I'm sure making no good fashion statement with black cargo shorts and yellow t shirts.
YOU may look like that. But I did ask my wife about my kit and she loves it.

Of course, I still fit into the same kit from several decades ago, so I'll thank my parents and cycling for that!
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Old 07-02-19, 01:31 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by NomarsGirl View Post
Well, I may have come out of a public school system in a working class town, but I got a damn fine education and was well prepared for university. And I didn't have to Google that. Miss Ward made sure we all knew our Greek myths.
You seem to assume that working class equal deficient school system. As you yourself have proved that is not the case.

Well done for the bricklayer's daughter.

Incidentally, no one in my family ever set foot in college, yet I hold multiple college degrees.

Not bad for the son of immigrants (and an immigrant himself).
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Old 07-02-19, 01:35 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Caliper View Post
YOU may look like that. But I did ask my wife about my kit and she loves it.

Of course, I still fit into the same kit from several decades ago, so I'll thank my parents and cycling for that!
There's no arguing taste, of course, but in my opinion, no one looks good in bike kit, it's just a matter of who looks less worse.

As someone who's raised a couple of kids, I'll let you in on a secret--bike kit is just giant baby clothes with funny shoes.
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Old 07-02-19, 03:11 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by NomarsGirl View Post
It's very difficult to read Shakespeare if you haven't had a good foundation in classics - especially Greek Mythology. Or perhaps we should just leave out Shakespeare as well since only math and science have any value? In addition to a good foundation in the classics and English and American literature, I also learned French well enough to read French classic literature in the original French. Oh, and I learned calculus, physics and chemistry as well. I hold a degree in Engineering. Not bad for the daughter of a bricklayer.
I have no idea if this is good or bad for the daughter of a bricklayer, but if you say it isnt bad, ill take your word for it. Not sure what that has to do with much of anything, but i guess 'kudos' to you?

I am not suggesting we leave out Billy S, as I specifically mentioned him in a different post as a focus for those that are interested. Everyone reading a few of his plays/stories is great, then offer a class to focus on them.
At some point, some mythology needs to be left off the curriculum. Greek? Roman? Norse? Egyptian? Asian? Its unrealistic to include all of them to the depth of knowing who mythical beings like Sisyphus are.

I am not arguing that math and science are the only subjects with value. Is like you havent actually read my posts- I specifically state that I think students should focus on other subjects too.
"It does have its place though- a high school literature elective focusing on Greek Mythology...Others can instead focus on poetry, or creative writing, or Billy S, or modern fiction, etc."
"Given the options for what to cut, Greek Mythology should always come first. You simply can't justify it over math, various sciences, various history classes, social studies, geography, practical life(welding, auto repair, wood working, design, etc), art, music, and more."


Knowing the name of a fictional minor character in Greek Mythology is not a sign of a good school system(public or private). Conversely, not knowing that minor character is not a sign of a deficient school system(public or private). Such a comment is absurd.
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Old 07-02-19, 03:53 PM
  #111  
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Plato's Euthydemus: Worth a careful read for all Eristic BF Sophists.

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 07-02-19 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 07-02-19, 06:38 PM
  #112  
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I would think Sun Tzu would be required reading for BF debates.
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Old 07-02-19, 09:18 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
So, I asked my girlfriend and her specific request was for for tighter clothing that left less room for her imagination. She specifically wanted me to wear red shorts as in that famous photo of the Polish cycling team

.jpg
i think I burned my eyes.

Last edited by BillyD; 07-03-19 at 06:13 AM. Reason: cleanup
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Old 07-02-19, 09:30 PM
  #114  
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never, none , she is dead. (22-99)
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Old 07-03-19, 06:25 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I have no idea if this is good or bad for the daughter of a bricklayer, but if you say it isnt bad, ill take your word for it. Not sure what that has to do with much of anything, but i guess 'kudos' to you?

I am not suggesting we leave out Billy S, as I specifically mentioned him in a different post as a focus for those that are interested. Everyone reading a few of his plays/stories is great, then offer a class to focus on them.
At some point, some mythology needs to be left off the curriculum. Greek? Roman? Norse? Egyptian? Asian? Its unrealistic to include all of them to the depth of knowing who mythical beings like Sisyphus are.

I am not arguing that math and science are the only subjects with value. Is like you havent actually read my posts- I specifically state that I think students should focus on other subjects too.
"It does have its place though- a high school literature elective focusing on Greek Mythology...Others can instead focus on poetry, or creative writing, or Billy S, or modern fiction, etc."
"Given the options for what to cut, Greek Mythology should always come first. You simply can't justify it over math, various sciences, various history classes, social studies, geography, practical life(welding, auto repair, wood working, design, etc), art, music, and more."


Knowing the name of a fictional minor character in Greek Mythology is not a sign of a good school system(public or private). Conversely, not knowing that minor character is not a sign of a deficient school system(public or private). Such a comment is absurd.

Back in the good old days, before the standards and expectations were dumbed down, we managed to learn about the classics and science in the public school systems. I think my HS curricula of the '70s was about equivalent to the HS "honors" program that my daughter did a couple years ago.
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Old 07-03-19, 07:07 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Back in the good old days, before the standards and expectations were dumbed down, we managed to learn about the classics and science in the public school systems. I think my HS curricula of the '70s was about equivalent to the HS "honors" program that my daughter did a couple years ago.
Interesting. Seeing my oldest niece's schedule last year as a freshman in high school(city high school too...so not one of the top ranked in the state suburban ones), I was quietly humbled at what she took compared to what I took 25 years prior. And I went to what was regarded as a pretty solid high school in the Chicago burbs where we learned about 'the classics' and science, math, etc etc.
Again though, what 'classics' should be taught and to what depth? Learning about Zeus, Icarus, Oedipus, and Pandora's Box can make sense since all are used to reference things in modern day life. Reading Iliad and Odyssey in a lit class- sure. But at some point it needs to be decided whether to learn breadth or depth on subjects and I disagree that the depth must be all the way to learning about randos like Sisyphus. In my view, learning about a character like Sisyphus is not an accurate measure of a good school system. I would much rather the time that could be spent forcing all students to dig deep into Greek Mythology instead move on and learn about other historical mythology from across the world. Or move on and learn programming/bridge building/pottery/changing auto oil/robotics/pretty much anything else.
25-50 years after leaving high school- knowing the name of a fictional minor character in Greek Mythology is worthless for most everyone in life(except for 'winning' an argument on the internet.).


https://www.businessinsider.com/high...ration-2011-12
Business Insider disagrees that HS is easier now than 'back in my day'.
- More class credits are taken
- More difficult classes are taken

Gathering information to cite for research back in the 70s would have been more difficult than it is now. In the 80s/90s for me it was more difficult than it is now. In that respect, yes its easier now for students. But around me- thats pretty much where it ends for HS being easier.
Like all things in life though- its all about the effort you put in.
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Old 07-03-19, 07:21 AM
  #117  
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Without knowing how the grading is curved, seeing the curriculum is not that useful. Kids could be taking all kinds of advanced classes, but without strict grading, it's all in vain.

I would argue that you could have an extremely difficult PHD level course on the book "Cat in the Hat", and if the grading was severe enough, half the class could be made to flunk out.
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Old 07-03-19, 08:28 AM
  #118  
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It doesn't really matter which myths you read, certain themes run through all the better stories. Read enough cultural tribalism and there it is. Same stuff, different setting. Which is exactly why we should read it. As much of it as possible. Suddenly you're not as different from me as I once thought you were.

Or maybe you are, in that weird conglomeration of clothing you call appropriate. All fabric-y and choosing colors you yourself deem appropriate as opposed to what others think...
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Old 07-03-19, 08:30 AM
  #119  
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This is one of the funniest examples of a hijacked thread I have ever seen.
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Old 07-03-19, 10:30 AM
  #120  
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Of course the people who put the least value on reading the so-called "classics" are those who are not familiar with them or, if they had ever read them, didn't understand them. In this case the discussion doesn't focus on classics but on Greek mythology. Mythology in general is studied because it tells us about ourselves in ways that help us deal with the difficulties that humans experience in living life. If you read the two great Greek classics, The Illiad and the Odyssey, you are not reading about "fake" characters but rather the distillation of certain human characteristics that are present in many people. We can learn a lot about our attitudes and behaviors from the conduct of characters like Agamemnon, Achilles, Odysseus and the many others who people these works. Agamemnon is a study in the failings of the use of unreasonable power, Achilles in the dangers of harboring undue pride, Odysseus in the virtues of loyalty to one's family and to the idea of the sanctity of the home and of marriage. These characters display many other common human characteristics as well, and to read of them is, really, to study ourselves. But of course not all people are interested in such topics and in reading in general. The educational system is right in including such works in public school curricula because it is important to expose students to the full range of human learning in a variety of disciplines. After basic required courses are completed, students are generally free to choose courses that better suit their interests. But a basic, well-rounded education is essential if the system is to produce thinking individuals who can carry the responsibilities of citizenship in a democracy, not to mention its value in living a thoughtful and meaningful life.


As to the the original topic of the thread, wear what you like.
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Old 07-03-19, 10:30 AM
  #121  
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Of course the people who put the least value on reading the so-called "classics" are those who are not familiar with them or, if they had ever read them, didn't understand them. In this case the discussion doesn't focus on classics but on Greek mythology. Mythology in general is studied because it tells us about ourselves in ways that help us deal with the difficulties that humans experience in living life. If you read the two great Greek classics, The Illiad and the Odyssey, you are not reading about "fake" characters but rather the distillation of certain human characteristics that are present in many people. We can learn a lot about our attitudes and behaviors from the conduct of characters like Agamemnon, Achilles, Odysseus and the many others who people these works. Agamemnon is a study in the failings of the use of unreasonable power, Achilles in the dangers of harboring undue pride, Odysseus in the virtues of loyalty to one's family and to the idea of the sanctity of the home and of marriage. These characters display many other common human characteristics as well, and to read of them is, really, to study ourselves. But of course not all people are interested in such topics and in reading in general. The educational system is right in including such works in public school curricula because it is important to expose students to the full range of human learning in a variety of disciplines. After basic required courses are completed, students are generally free to choose courses that better suit their interests. But a basic, well-rounded education is essential if the system is to produce thinking individuals who can carry the responsibilities of citizenship in a democracy, not to mention its value in living a thoughtful and meaningful life.

As to the the original topic of the thread, wear what you like.
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Old 07-04-19, 07:58 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
This is one of the funniest examples of a hijacked thread I have ever seen.
Also one of the worst. Closed.
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