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AMP Human PR Cream

Old 07-29-19, 11:43 AM
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MichaelJH
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AMP Human PR Cream

I have seen this AMP Human PR Cream advertised to reduce lactic acid build up and allow you to train harder with less muscle fatigue. It says it is a topical Bicarb Soda cream. Has anyone tried it ? What are your thoughts on it ?

Thx
Michael
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Old 07-29-19, 12:39 PM
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Pretty funny that this stuff is supposed to alkalinize the blood and couldn't possibly do anything to muscle directly, but people rub it on their legs instead of their armpits, crotches, bellies, or places where the skin is thin and vascular. Transcutaneous absorbtion of bicarbonate has to be pretty minimal, anyway.

As Chairman Mao said, "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science."
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Old 07-29-19, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I have seen this AMP Human PR Cream advertised to reduce lactic acid build up and allow you to train harder with less muscle fatigue. It says it is a topical Bicarb Soda cream. Has anyone tried it ? What are your thoughts on it ?

Thx
Michael
Do you know how many snakes they had to kill to get the oil for one tube?

That's not how lactic acid works-your liver clears it out in about an hour.
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Old 07-29-19, 01:30 PM
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Yet another miraculous breakthrough by Placebo Laboratories, makers of "The Fat-Off Pill".


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Old 07-29-19, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Do you know how many snakes they had to kill to get the oil for one tube?

That's not how lactic acid works-your liver clears it out in about an hour.
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charged anion, and H+ the positively charged cation. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 07-29-19 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Pointed out to me that I got the ions mixed up. I was in a hurry. ...yeah, a big hurry.
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Old 07-29-19, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charge cation, and H+ the positively charged anion. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.
Just looked at the trial "results". I smell some p-hacking there.
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Old 07-29-19, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Just looked at the trial "results". I smell some p-hacking there.
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
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Old 07-29-19, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
Once they start saying that this variable was statistically significant at 15 minutes but not at 30, I have to wonder why we aren't seeing all the crosstabs. If you run 20 crosstabs, something will probably be "significant" just by chance.
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Old 07-29-19, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charge cation, and H+ the positively charged anion. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.
I have some questions:
1. are we talking about aerobic respiration or anaerobic respiration?
2. shouldn't a negative charge ion be an anion?
3. shouldn't a positive charge ion be cation?
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Old 07-29-19, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81 View Post
I have some questions:
1. are we talking about aerobic respiration or anaerobic respiration?
2. shouldn't a negative charge ion be an anion?
3. shouldn't a positive charge ion be cation?
1. Anaerobic, primarily.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Embarrassing!
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Old 07-29-19, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
1. Anaerobic, primarily.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Embarrassing!
No problem. I just didn't want the readers to get confuse.
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Old 07-30-19, 03:28 AM
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What are the ingredients?
Menthol (0.5%), sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), water, isopropyl palmitate, lecithin, poloxamer 407, palm kernel oil, alcohol denat., benzyl alcohol, coconut oil, jojoba seed oil, caprylic/capric triglycerides, sodium hydroxide, fragrance


So ... will toothpaste work?

https://www.grantsofaustralia.com.au...oothpaste-110g

INGREDIENTS: Calcium Carbonate, Aqua, Glycerin (vegetable), Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda), Silica, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate (from coconut), Peppermint Oil, Cellulose Gum, Menthol, Stevioside (stevia).
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Old 07-30-19, 05:15 AM
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Sometimes you just have to try something and see for yourself. The placebo effect comes into play but sometimes things do make a difference.
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Old 07-30-19, 06:22 AM
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Lance has been pushing it hard on his podcast, so it must work right??
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Old 07-30-19, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
Actually, I just reread the conclusions, and it's quite clear they just emphasized the crosstabs that had significance while burying the actually important result--notice the last sentence, all the other is just selective p-hack reporting:

"Heart rate and RPE were significantly (p<0.05) lower for TSB compared to placebo at the 15-min mark of the 1-hour time trial, but not at other time points. When TSB was applied, lactate was higher (p<0.05) after the high-intensity ramp, sprint and 5-min time trial series (10.8±3.2 mmol/L versus 9.7±3.1 mmol/L for TSB and placebo, respectively). Similar effects were not observed after the 1-hour time trial. Significance was not reached when examining performance differences (p>0.05)."

In other words, we found statistical significance for certain variables at short times, but there's no evidence it does anything for performance.

Also, is increased lactate after the ramp, sprint and 5-min tt good or bad? What's that supposed to indicate?

I
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Old 07-30-19, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Actually, I just reread the conclusions, and it's quite clear they just emphasized the crosstabs that had significance while burying the actually important result--notice the last sentence, all the other is just selective p-hack reporting:

"Heart rate and RPE were significantly (p<0.05) lower for TSB compared to placebo at the 15-min mark of the 1-hour time trial, but not at other time points. When TSB was applied, lactate was higher (p<0.05) after the high-intensity ramp, sprint and 5-min time trial series (10.8±3.2 mmol/L versus 9.7±3.1 mmol/L for TSB and placebo, respectively). Similar effects were not observed after the 1-hour time trial. Significance was not reached when examining performance differences (p>0.05)."

In other words, we found statistical significance for certain variables at short times, but there's no evidence it does anything for performance.

Also, is increased lactate after the ramp, sprint and 5-min tt good or bad? What's that supposed to indicate?

I
Yeah, certainly sounds like a dog. Post a link, if you don't mind.
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Old 07-30-19, 07:35 AM
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Thx for replies

Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
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Old 07-30-19, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Yeah, certainly sounds like a dog. Post a link, if you don't mind.
Linked on their own website:

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/F...ized.1967.aspx
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Old 07-30-19, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
Group or solo? Where?

Have fun!
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Old 07-30-19, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
The following is a list of things that will benefit you as you prepare-

- ride time. there is nothing better than saddle time to prepare you for...saddle time.
- healthy eating. balanced mix of protein, vitamins/minerals from plants and fruits, and carbs.
- stretching. stretch before and after exercise. stretch randomly thru the day. its good for you regardless of what you are preparing for.
- bike maintenance. make sure all bolts are properly tight, everything is properly aligned, and there are no mysterious clicking noises that will annoy you for 100mi.
- plan for eating while riding. figure out if you will carry everything or if you will stop along the way. have foods that give you sugar, protein, salt, etc so your body stays balanced.

There is no big secret to a century- its just riding longer than usual, so you just need to do more of...the usual.
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Old 07-30-19, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Thanks.

Conference abstracts are always word-count limited and never tell all. However, your points are valid: Likely under-powered so any significant effects are likely unrelated to the intervention, lots of dependent measures, no primary outcome identified a priori, no mention of effect size, no evidence of correction for multiple comparisons, etc. To wit, a junky little trial on which no conclusions can or should be based. That said, the study could still generate hypotheses and endpoints for a definitive trial, but if I were the manufacturer, I wouldn't bother. The stuff is harmless and athletes will go for any legal edge.
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Old 07-30-19, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
The following is a list of things that will benefit you as you prepare-

- ride time. there is nothing better than saddle time to prepare you for...saddle time.
- healthy eating. balanced mix of protein, vitamins/minerals from plants and fruits, and carbs.
- stretching. stretch before and after exercise. stretch randomly thru the day. its good for you regardless of what you are preparing for.
- bike maintenance. make sure all bolts are properly tight, everything is properly aligned, and there are no mysterious clicking noises that will annoy you for 100mi.
- plan for eating while riding. figure out if you will carry everything or if you will stop along the way. have foods that give you sugar, protein, salt, etc so your body stays balanced.

There is no big secret to a century- its just riding longer than usual, so you just need to do more of...the usual.
I'm going to disagree with this a very little bit--the key is to do things you know work for you on shorter distances and not to try to change too much. Many of us do not find stretching useful, and I actually don't do it at all. I rode a double century last weekend, I believe I've done about a dozen this year. So basically, if you are stretching because you like doing it, keep doing it. It is not mandatory, and the claim that it's beneficial for all things is completely unsupported by any science, and there's some evidence that stretching before a workout may actually make you more prone to injury.

As to food, stick to things you know haven't bothered you before on longer rides. I'm lucky in that I can eat almost anything and keep going, but I don't think most people are like that. People vary wildly in what foods they can tolerate during exertion. I do solo centuries, so I can do things like stop for two hours and have lunch with my sons before finishing the ride, but I've also done 100 miles stopping only once for coffee and a urinal--eat when you're hungry drink when you're thirsty has always worked pretty well for me. Definitely, though, have a plan that you think will work for you. Improvising in the middle of nowhere is no fun at all.
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Old 07-30-19, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
A Sticky thread on the subject by the BF Long Distance Community covers it all, and more:

Tips for riding a Century
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Old 07-30-19, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
Lance also once pushed erythropoietin, human growth hormone, and testosterone, but only to a select group of people who wouldn't rat him out... For a while, at least.

I would think he'd stay out of the chemical-enhanced cycling products considering his history, but I guess a believer is a believer, and it's hard to argue with his results, I guess.

I do enjoy his podcasts.
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Old 07-30-19, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
Lance also once pushed erythropoietin, human growth hormone, and testosterone, but only to a select group of people who wouldn't rat him out... For a while, at least.

I would think he'd stay out of the chemical-enhanced cycling products considering his history, but I guess a believer is a believer, and it's hard to argue with his results, I guess.
What results?
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