Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

AMP Human PR Cream

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

AMP Human PR Cream

Old 07-29-19, 11:43 AM
  #1  
MichaelJH
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito CV

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
AMP Human PR Cream

I have seen this AMP Human PR Cream advertised to reduce lactic acid build up and allow you to train harder with less muscle fatigue. It says it is a topical Bicarb Soda cream. Has anyone tried it ? What are your thoughts on it ?

Thx
Michael
MichaelJH is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 12:39 PM
  #2  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Pretty funny that this stuff is supposed to alkalinize the blood and couldn't possibly do anything to muscle directly, but people rub it on their legs instead of their armpits, crotches, bellies, or places where the skin is thin and vascular. Transcutaneous absorbtion of bicarbonate has to be pretty minimal, anyway.

As Chairman Mao said, "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science."
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 01:04 PM
  #3  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I have seen this AMP Human PR Cream advertised to reduce lactic acid build up and allow you to train harder with less muscle fatigue. It says it is a topical Bicarb Soda cream. Has anyone tried it ? What are your thoughts on it ?

Thx
Michael
Do you know how many snakes they had to kill to get the oil for one tube?

That's not how lactic acid works-your liver clears it out in about an hour.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 07-29-19, 01:30 PM
  #4  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 113 Posts
Yet another miraculous breakthrough by Placebo Laboratories, makers of "The Fat-Off Pill".


-Bandera
Bandera is offline  
Likes For Bandera:
Old 07-29-19, 01:43 PM
  #5  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Do you know how many snakes they had to kill to get the oil for one tube?

That's not how lactic acid works-your liver clears it out in about an hour.
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charged anion, and H+ the positively charged cation. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.

Last edited by MoAlpha; 07-29-19 at 06:59 PM. Reason: Pointed out to me that I got the ions mixed up. I was in a hurry. ...yeah, a big hurry.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 07-29-19, 02:50 PM
  #6  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charge cation, and H+ the positively charged anion. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.
Just looked at the trial "results". I smell some p-hacking there.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 03:12 PM
  #7  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Just looked at the trial "results". I smell some p-hacking there.
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 07-29-19, 04:26 PM
  #8  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
Once they start saying that this variable was statistically significant at 15 minutes but not at 30, I have to wonder why we aren't seeing all the crosstabs. If you run 20 crosstabs, something will probably be "significant" just by chance.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 07-29-19, 06:52 PM
  #9  
CycleryNorth81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 877

Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 117 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
The putative mechanism here actually has very little to do with metabolizing lactic acid. Intense exercise produces what's known as metabolic acidosis, which is a major limiting factor in the ability to perform anaerobically and may also have something to do with the muscular sensation of fatigue. This happens when anaerobic muscle metabolism releases lactic acid, which dissociates as lactate, i.e., the negatively charge cation, and H+ the positively charged anion. CO2 also builds up in the blood, combining with water and forming HCO3- (bicarbonate) ion and more H+, making the blood still more acidic. During recovery, the process goes the other way, and the athlete blows off CO2.

What these guys are selling is a way to increase the acid-buffering capacity of the blood by adding HCO3- to soak up H+ ions, drive the product off as CO2, and reverse acidosis faster, thereby increasing anaerobic capacity and recovery. The idea is basic clinical chemistry and there are legit studies showing that pre-loading with oral bicarb works in exactly this way, but it causes bigtime release of CO2 in the GI tract and is a big osmotic load on the gut, which no one wants.

That said, I think it's going to be hard to get enough bicarb across the skin to do much. They cite a trial with encouraging results, but it looks like it's only been published as a meeting abstract.
I have some questions:
1. are we talking about aerobic respiration or anaerobic respiration?
2. shouldn't a negative charge ion be an anion?
3. shouldn't a positive charge ion be cation?
CycleryNorth81 is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 06:57 PM
  #10  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Originally Posted by CycleryNorth81 View Post
I have some questions:
1. are we talking about aerobic respiration or anaerobic respiration?
2. shouldn't a negative charge ion be an anion?
3. shouldn't a positive charge ion be cation?
1. Anaerobic, primarily.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Embarrassing!
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 07-29-19, 06:59 PM
  #11  
CycleryNorth81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 877

Bikes: custom Cyclery North (Chicago), Schwinn Circuit

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 202 Times in 117 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
1. Anaerobic, primarily.
2. Yes
3. Yes
Embarrassing!
No problem. I just didn't want the readers to get confuse.
CycleryNorth81 is offline  
Likes For CycleryNorth81:
Old 07-30-19, 03:28 AM
  #12  
Machka 
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,099

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3192 Post(s)
Liked 508 Times in 297 Posts
What are the ingredients?
Menthol (0.5%), sodium bicarbonate (baking soda), water, isopropyl palmitate, lecithin, poloxamer 407, palm kernel oil, alcohol denat., benzyl alcohol, coconut oil, jojoba seed oil, caprylic/capric triglycerides, sodium hydroxide, fragrance


So ... will toothpaste work?

https://www.grantsofaustralia.com.au...oothpaste-110g

INGREDIENTS: Calcium Carbonate, Aqua, Glycerin (vegetable), Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda), Silica, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate (from coconut), Peppermint Oil, Cellulose Gum, Menthol, Stevioside (stevia).
Machka is offline  
Likes For Machka:
Old 07-30-19, 05:15 AM
  #13  
bakerjw
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 917

Bikes: Giant TCR/Surly Karate Monkey/Foundry FireTower/Curtlo Tandem

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked 83 Times in 61 Posts
Sometimes you just have to try something and see for yourself. The placebo effect comes into play but sometimes things do make a difference.
bakerjw is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 06:22 AM
  #14  
OhioJTrek
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 32

Bikes: 2019 Domane SL 5

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Lance has been pushing it hard on his podcast, so it must work right??
OhioJTrek is offline  
Likes For OhioJTrek:
Old 07-30-19, 06:57 AM
  #15  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Hard to tell from what’s been shared, but most small clinical studies can be assumed to be unreliable.
Actually, I just reread the conclusions, and it's quite clear they just emphasized the crosstabs that had significance while burying the actually important result--notice the last sentence, all the other is just selective p-hack reporting:

"Heart rate and RPE were significantly (p<0.05) lower for TSB compared to placebo at the 15-min mark of the 1-hour time trial, but not at other time points. When TSB was applied, lactate was higher (p<0.05) after the high-intensity ramp, sprint and 5-min time trial series (10.8±3.2 mmol/L versus 9.7±3.1 mmol/L for TSB and placebo, respectively). Similar effects were not observed after the 1-hour time trial. Significance was not reached when examining performance differences (p>0.05)."

In other words, we found statistical significance for certain variables at short times, but there's no evidence it does anything for performance.

Also, is increased lactate after the ramp, sprint and 5-min tt good or bad? What's that supposed to indicate?

I
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 07:22 AM
  #16  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Actually, I just reread the conclusions, and it's quite clear they just emphasized the crosstabs that had significance while burying the actually important result--notice the last sentence, all the other is just selective p-hack reporting:

"Heart rate and RPE were significantly (p<0.05) lower for TSB compared to placebo at the 15-min mark of the 1-hour time trial, but not at other time points. When TSB was applied, lactate was higher (p<0.05) after the high-intensity ramp, sprint and 5-min time trial series (10.8±3.2 mmol/L versus 9.7±3.1 mmol/L for TSB and placebo, respectively). Similar effects were not observed after the 1-hour time trial. Significance was not reached when examining performance differences (p>0.05)."

In other words, we found statistical significance for certain variables at short times, but there's no evidence it does anything for performance.

Also, is increased lactate after the ramp, sprint and 5-min tt good or bad? What's that supposed to indicate?

I
Yeah, certainly sounds like a dog. Post a link, if you don't mind.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 07:35 AM
  #17  
MichaelJH
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 15

Bikes: Bianchi Infinito CV

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thx for replies

Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
MichaelJH is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 07:52 AM
  #18  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Yeah, certainly sounds like a dog. Post a link, if you don't mind.
Linked on their own website:

https://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/F...ized.1967.aspx
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 07:54 AM
  #19  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
Group or solo? Where?

Have fun!
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 07:55 AM
  #20  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,273

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7753 Post(s)
Liked 4,736 Times in 2,732 Posts
Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
The following is a list of things that will benefit you as you prepare-

- ride time. there is nothing better than saddle time to prepare you for...saddle time.
- healthy eating. balanced mix of protein, vitamins/minerals from plants and fruits, and carbs.
- stretching. stretch before and after exercise. stretch randomly thru the day. its good for you regardless of what you are preparing for.
- bike maintenance. make sure all bolts are properly tight, everything is properly aligned, and there are no mysterious clicking noises that will annoy you for 100mi.
- plan for eating while riding. figure out if you will carry everything or if you will stop along the way. have foods that give you sugar, protein, salt, etc so your body stays balanced.

There is no big secret to a century- its just riding longer than usual, so you just need to do more of...the usual.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 07-30-19, 08:06 AM
  #21  
MoAlpha
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 9,744

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 55 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8106 Post(s)
Liked 4,183 Times in 2,256 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Thanks.

Conference abstracts are always word-count limited and never tell all. However, your points are valid: Likely under-powered so any significant effects are likely unrelated to the intervention, lots of dependent measures, no primary outcome identified a priori, no mention of effect size, no evidence of correction for multiple comparisons, etc. To wit, a junky little trial on which no conclusions can or should be based. That said, the study could still generate hypotheses and endpoints for a definitive trial, but if I were the manufacturer, I wouldn't bother. The stuff is harmless and athletes will go for any legal edge.
MoAlpha is offline  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 07-30-19, 08:09 AM
  #22  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
The following is a list of things that will benefit you as you prepare-

- ride time. there is nothing better than saddle time to prepare you for...saddle time.
- healthy eating. balanced mix of protein, vitamins/minerals from plants and fruits, and carbs.
- stretching. stretch before and after exercise. stretch randomly thru the day. its good for you regardless of what you are preparing for.
- bike maintenance. make sure all bolts are properly tight, everything is properly aligned, and there are no mysterious clicking noises that will annoy you for 100mi.
- plan for eating while riding. figure out if you will carry everything or if you will stop along the way. have foods that give you sugar, protein, salt, etc so your body stays balanced.

There is no big secret to a century- its just riding longer than usual, so you just need to do more of...the usual.
I'm going to disagree with this a very little bit--the key is to do things you know work for you on shorter distances and not to try to change too much. Many of us do not find stretching useful, and I actually don't do it at all. I rode a double century last weekend, I believe I've done about a dozen this year. So basically, if you are stretching because you like doing it, keep doing it. It is not mandatory, and the claim that it's beneficial for all things is completely unsupported by any science, and there's some evidence that stretching before a workout may actually make you more prone to injury.

As to food, stick to things you know haven't bothered you before on longer rides. I'm lucky in that I can eat almost anything and keep going, but I don't think most people are like that. People vary wildly in what foods they can tolerate during exertion. I do solo centuries, so I can do things like stop for two hours and have lunch with my sons before finishing the ride, but I've also done 100 miles stopping only once for coffee and a urinal--eat when you're hungry drink when you're thirsty has always worked pretty well for me. Definitely, though, have a plan that you think will work for you. Improvising in the middle of nowhere is no fun at all.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 09:36 AM
  #23  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 170 Times in 113 Posts
Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
A Sticky thread on the subject by the BF Long Distance Community covers it all, and more:

Tips for riding a Century
Bandera is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 11:11 AM
  #24  
HarborBandS
HarborBandS
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Chicago Western Suburbs
Posts: 476
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 53 Posts
Originally Posted by MichaelJH View Post
Thanks for the input …. I think I am going to save my $$$ on this one. I had seen it being promoted on "The Move" by Lance and his crew and then the AmpHuman Ad looked enticing but its not like I even do intense workouts anymore. I am looking for things that might benefit me as I have been prepping for a century and will be riding that in 3 weeks.
Lance also once pushed erythropoietin, human growth hormone, and testosterone, but only to a select group of people who wouldn't rat him out... For a while, at least.

I would think he'd stay out of the chemical-enhanced cycling products considering his history, but I guess a believer is a believer, and it's hard to argue with his results, I guess.

I do enjoy his podcasts.
HarborBandS is offline  
Old 07-30-19, 12:25 PM
  #25  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 12,371

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6459 Post(s)
Liked 6,109 Times in 3,454 Posts
Originally Posted by HarborBandS View Post
Lance also once pushed erythropoietin, human growth hormone, and testosterone, but only to a select group of people who wouldn't rat him out... For a while, at least.

I would think he'd stay out of the chemical-enhanced cycling products considering his history, but I guess a believer is a believer, and it's hard to argue with his results, I guess.
What results?
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.