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Reading dog behavior while riding

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Reading dog behavior while riding

Old 09-12-19, 04:35 AM
  #101  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by Witterings
Did you even bother reading the part I wrote

So there's some bad dogs with a highly aggressive attitude that will just start an unprovoked attack in a viscous way when it's totally unnecessary and that people generally have complete disdain for .... funnily enough there are some humans that are exactly the same .. some of which that are know to frequent cycling forums
That's one unclear sentence in a diatribe that just assumes that people being attacked are doing something to attract is because of their "lack of confidence".

I know you fancy yourself some sort of dog expert, but you just aren't, and you should stop this armchair analysis of how people are reacting to a situation you've never faced.

You otherwise seen to be a fairly reasonable person, but it just amazes me that you don't understand how off-base and annoying you are on this subject. From what I've seen, some dogs are not relating to riders as people because they are on bikes which makes us move in a way that resembles prey. Some of these dogs might actually be feral. Some of these dogs may actually be trained to attack strangers. They, for all you know, may have rabies. Someone second-guessing you when they didn't face a very uncertain dangerous situation is truly obnoxious. You have no special knowledge that entitles you to do this. "Owns a bunch of dogs" has nothing to do with how to cope with a fast attack in real time.
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Old 09-12-19, 07:24 AM
  #102  
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dogs may be well trained but they operate on instinct which is in their DNA. they chase, they hunt, they bite. YOUR behavior has nothing to do with controlling THEIR instincts. You may activate their instincts but once activated, you better have a plan or suffer the consequences
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Old 09-12-19, 03:15 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by venturi95
OK, I must chime in here as a self-declared very stable genius when it comes to dogs. I have owned a few over most of my life, I worked as a meter reader one winter, and I have been riding public streets and roads a very long time and been chased/harassed many times. I have been bitten once while riding when I was a child, but snow pants saved my hyde. YOU SHOULD NEVER TRUST A STRANGE DOG. Most dogs aren't dumb, but behave in a dumb manner. A good number of them are sneaky bastards, they will play nice until they can make a clean and quick lunge. Some will lye in wait, hiding secluded until you are in range, but this type of M.O. has little defense. Get some Halt spray and keep it handy for quick draw, it's best for you and the dog, pain is a good motivator (I am a dog lover and I hate medevil training methods).
I agree! I have had dogs and they often do have very easy tells, but that is when you know them. I have seen our dog (my avatar) get what we call the "wolf look" yet not betray any major body language. Her entire look would change, The eyes would get stone cold, the ears get a bit flatter, and the front legs would get stiff. Tails may still be wagging, but she definitely did not like that person or dog and was in a defensive mode. She was not aggressive and if approached would always put an object between her and the stranger until she decided it was time to meet.

I have out sprinted a dog in a straight line on a country, but that was because they were dumb chasers. The odds of the rider successing greatly diminishs in traffic, cross streets, or with other cyclists on a path. (Just do not be the slowest ). Our Australian Shepherd (a herder through and through) could instantly read the terrain and object of interest and adjust his direction so no matter what track he was on was the the shortest and most direct intercept. I saw him do it in the dog park as the dogs raced around, but otherwise he was never off leash even though he would reliably drop to a down position at a whistle. That was a real save when he took interest in a raccoon that proved to be rabid.

I love dogs, but as in the quote above, YOU SHOULD NEVER TRUST A STRANGE DOG. I do carry the spray, just in case.
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Old 09-12-19, 06:31 PM
  #104  
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I have been attacked by dogs many times. Never had any serious problem. I will admit that some dogs, especially the "underdogs" of the pack, they seek to prove themselves to the others and they go the extra mile. These aren't the alphas of the pack. These are what i call "the crazy ones". They stick from the rest by showing a lot of teeth and acting like you killed their mom Most of the time, these crazy idiots are the problem. The rest of the pack usually just follows the alpha and bark at you from a safe distance, trying to shoo you off.

I will tell you what I do in case of a dog attack: First, i do not try to run. That i think is the worst thing you can do. Because it triggers their chasing instinct. What i do is i stop and face them. Yes, that is no joke. That is how i deal with a dog attack. One dog or a pack, it doesn't matter, it is all the same. I stop, put my feet on the ground, take a deffensive stance and do not ever turn my back to the dogs. And most importantly, "I do not ever crouch or lie down". That is like saying "i am the dinner, come get it". If i am dealing with a pack that surrounded me, i take out my water bottle and use it like a weapon. This might sound funny but dogs actually get scared of it, i think that is because they don't know what it is, and consider it could be a weapon. If they come too close, i put the bike between me and the dogs. As a last resort, i shout at them, hit my foot on the ground and make them understand that i am not playing. What i understood is that dealing with a dog attack requires you to act brave. I believe dogs actually respond to that and they respect you.

PS: If you are carrying a knife, spray, stick, it is a good idea to put it in a place that you can easily reach. I never needed to harm a dog in all my encounters but it could happen, and in that case, using a weapon on a dog is fair game. Yes, i love dogs, but i won't surrender my life to one.

Last edited by Newspaper_Nick; 09-12-19 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 09-14-19, 04:13 PM
  #105  
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Fortunately, I have not yet encountered an aggressive dog while cycling. Only while walking with my dog.

What’s different about that, is that you have your own dog with you :-)
And a dog is a good communicator towards other dogs.
Unless the opponent is really crazy. (I got lucky once, thank G. Worst is when you’re being surprised.)

Having a dog yourself definitely helps you to read other dogs. But then you know dogs can fool you, so caution when encountering any dog (or owner) is always a smart thing to do.
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Old 09-14-19, 11:48 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
I have been attacked by dogs many times. Never had any serious problem. I will admit that some dogs, especially the "underdogs" of the pack, they seek to prove themselves to the others and they go the extra mile. These aren't the alphas of the pack. These are what i call "the crazy ones". They stick from the rest by showing a lot of teeth and acting like you killed their mom Most of the time, these crazy idiots are the problem. The rest of the pack usually just follows the alpha and bark at you from a safe distance, trying to shoo you off.

I will tell you what I do in case of a dog attack: First, i do not try to run. That i think is the worst thing you can do. Because it triggers their chasing instinct. What i do is i stop and face them. Yes, that is no joke. That is how i deal with a dog attack. One dog or a pack, it doesn't matter, it is all the same. I stop, put my feet on the ground, take a deffensive stance and do not ever turn my back to the dogs. And most importantly, "I do not ever crouch or lie down". That is like saying "i am the dinner, come get it". If i am dealing with a pack that surrounded me, i take out my water bottle and use it like a weapon. This might sound funny but dogs actually get scared of it, i think that is because they don't know what it is, and consider it could be a weapon. If they come too close, i put the bike between me and the dogs. As a last resort, i shout at them, hit my foot on the ground and make them understand that i am not playing. What i understood is that dealing with a dog attack requires you to act brave. I believe dogs actually respond to that and they respect you.

PS: If you are carrying a knife, spray, stick, it is a good idea to put it in a place that you can easily reach. I never needed to harm a dog in all my encounters but it could happen, and in that case, using a weapon on a dog is fair game. Yes, i love dogs, but i won't surrender my life to one.
On the contrary, only face a dog when you're cornered or blocked (even animals know that much). Otherwise, if you have clearance, and can sprint to get away do so. As I stated earlier you're not racing with the dog, nor is he hunting you to make you his meal. He will chase you (that's what dogs do) only to the limit of his territory then break off.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:18 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
On the contrary, only face a dog when you're cornered or blocked (even animals know that much). Otherwise, if you have clearance, and can sprint to get away do so. As I stated earlier you're not racing with the dog, nor is he hunting you to make you his meal. He will chase you (that's what dogs do) only to the limit of his territory then break off.
I agree that sprinting away is an option for people with sufficient speed, but you really don't know what the dog is up to. There's way too many actual dog attacks where they bite or go under the bike to believe that they're all just trying to run people off. And there are instances where dogs act in a pack to bring down a rider. That's hunting behavior.
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Old 09-15-19, 05:38 AM
  #108  
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But it's all in good fun. And they're so CUTE when they go on their little murderous feral attacks on people I don't know, and therefore don't care about.
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Old 09-15-19, 07:04 AM
  #109  
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wild dogs while riding are way less bothersome than the biting dogs on a bicycle forum. Just saying.
pact mentality applies also.
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Old 09-15-19, 08:04 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
On the contrary, only face a dog when you're cornered or blocked (even animals know that much). Otherwise, if you have clearance, and can sprint to get away do so. As I stated earlier you're not racing with the dog, nor is he hunting you to make you his meal. He will chase you (that's what dogs do) only to the limit of his territory then break off.
There are two reasons i do not recommend "sprinting" or trying to run away from a dog, even if you have the chance to do so. First of all, if you are in an area with even the mildest of traffic, this kind of behavior will get you distracted and could cause you to have an accident with another vehicle or just have a plain old fall. This is highy possible. And it is much more dangerous than being bitten by a dog. A dog bite is something you can survive. A crash with another vehicle, you might not.

Second, as i have said before, dogs do "love" to chase. They love to chase and catch their prey. They are hunters from instinct. If you fail to accelerate to a "decent" road speed (let's be honest, if you are on gravel/dirt roads etc., this is impossible), you won't be able to outrun them. They will get closer to you and try to bite your feet and legs. You will notice with regret that they actually know what to bite and what not to bite. "They are not stupid".
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Old 09-15-19, 08:24 AM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
That's one unclear sentence in a diatribe that just assumes that people being attacked are doing something to attract is because of their "lack of confidence"
Reading that sentence made my head hurt.

As you may recall, earlier this year my ex was jumped from behind while riding. The animal sprinted off someone's property through an open gate. She never even saw the thing, so she certainly did not attract the animal with a lack of confidence. Thing took her down, and she suffered a brain bleed. Local authorities have brought criminal charges against the owner. My ex's lawyer's investigator went to the scene to take photos and saw the dog again roaming the property unleashed or fenced in.
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Old 09-15-19, 11:35 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
...This is classic when talking to dog owners. Dogs can imitate human behavior but they cannot experience feelings. Humans make the mistake of interpreting that behavior for emotions. But your dog has no more love for you than he does for a wooden stick or a doggie treat.
As the owner of many dogs over the years, I have to say that could only have been written by someone who never has. You obviously know nothing about the joy, camaraderie or affection possible between folks and their dogs.
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Old 09-16-19, 01:41 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by DrDyno
As the owner of many dogs over the years, I have to say that could only have been written by someone who never has. You obviously know nothing about the joy, camaraderie or affection possible between folks and their dogs.
Good try, but totally false. In fact I have had many dogs, all of which were I made sure were well-trained. The only difference between your belief and mine is I don't confuse animal behavior and instinct with human emotions.
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Old 09-16-19, 09:11 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Reading that sentence made my head hurt.
I typoed "is" when I meant "it."

Way it reads now makes my head hurt too.
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Old 09-16-19, 09:56 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by DrDyno
As the owner of many dogs over the years, I have to say that could only have been written by someone who never has. You obviously know nothing about the joy, camaraderie or affection possible between folks and their dogs.
I second your statements.

I know, for a fact, that to my dogs I am much more than a Scooby snack.

A dog’s love and loyalty to its owner far exceed the simple act of providing it with food and shelter. Look at all the homeless men and women whose one true companion is a dog. Those dogs do not live in the same relative lap of luxury that my dogs do, yet they are as faithful and loving to their homeless humans as mine are to me.

Here is some research on the subject of dogs and the emotions that they do, and can, feel:

https://moderndogmagazine.com/articl...perience/32883

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/n...gregory-berns/

And here is the story of Hachiko, the Japanese Akita who waited for years for the return of his dead master.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachikō

I am a firm believer that there are no bad dogs, only crappy humans who victimize dogs to the point where they eventually turn on humans.

For every aggressive pitbull out there, I can show you a low-life thug who is using the dog to make up for low self esteem and to feel more macho.

Case in point: Michael Vick.

Last edited by eja_ bottecchia; 09-16-19 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 09-16-19, 09:56 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
Good try, but totally false. In fact I have had many dogs, all of which were I made sure were well-trained. The only difference between your belief and mine is I don't confuse animal behavior and instinct with human emotions.
Research proves you wrong.
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Old 09-16-19, 10:45 AM
  #117  
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I had a dog follow me about 18 miles once
it had a few close calls with traffic and finally I got to a nice downhill stretch were I could lose him. I didn’t mind him following so much I just didn’t want to be responsible if he got hit.he was a friendly cuss
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Old 09-16-19, 10:47 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
I second your statements.

I know, for a fact, that to my dogs I am much more than a Scooby snack.

A dog’s love and loyalty to its owner far exceed the simple act of providing it with food and shelter. Look at all the homeless men and women whose one true companion is a dog. Those dogs do not live in the same relative lap of luxury that my dogs do, yet they are as faithful and loving to their homeless humans as mine are to me.
Exactly. Those dogs see those homeless as members of their pack. Your dogs think that you are a part of their pack. And maybe you are even the alpha. In my country, we have a lot of stray dogs wandering the streets. Almost every street has its own pack of dogs. Over time, i built a friendship with the pack in my street. Now whenever they see me, they show such happiness that i am flabbergasted. Not even my mom gets this happy to see me
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Old 09-16-19, 12:09 PM
  #119  
eja_ bottecchia
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
Exactly. Those dogs see those homeless as members of their pack. Your dogs think that you are a part of their pack. And maybe you are even the alpha. In my country, we have a lot of stray dogs wandering the streets. Almost every street has its own pack of dogs. Over time, i built a friendship with the pack in my street. Now whenever they see me, they show such happiness that i am flabbergasted. Not even my mom gets this happy to see me
I don’t about my Mom, but my dogs certainly show more affection for me than my own wife...and that’s the truth.

I was born and raised in a country similar as yours. No one really “owned” a dog. There were street dogs and they “belonged” to every one. This is the time when I learned the value of a dog’s love.

When we came to live in the USA, the concept of actually owning a dog seemed both strange and wonderful. This is a great country! But I have not forgotten the roots of my connection to dogs. All my dogs are rescue dogs, from the local shelters. That way I still maintain my connection to the Havana street dogs of my youth.

Look I get it, not everyone loves dogs. And I get it that if you have been chased or bitten by a dog your feelings will be different than mine.

But the overwhelming majority of attacks by “vicious” dogs can be directly traced to crappy owners.

Peace out and ride safely.
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Old 09-16-19, 01:36 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by kantquit
I had a dog follow me about 18 miles once
it had a few close calls with traffic and finally I got to a nice downhill stretch were I could lose him. I didn’t mind him following so much I just didn’t want to be responsible if he got hit.he was a friendly cuss
If a dog follows you for 18 miles.....that’s your dog!
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Old 09-16-19, 11:32 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
Research proves you wrong.
That doesn't "prove" anything. Its just a controversial set of beliefs. Just as I've already stated.

Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
I second your statements.

I know, for a fact, that to my dogs I am much more than a Scooby snack.

A dog’s love and loyalty to its owner far exceed the simple act of providing it with food and shelter. Look at all the homeless men and women whose one true companion is a dog. Those dogs do not live in the same relative lap of luxury that my dogs do, yet they are as faithful and loving to their homeless humans as mine are to me.

Here is some research on the subject of dogs and the emotions that they do, and can, feel:

https://moderndogmagazine.com/articl...perience/32883

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/n...gregory-berns/

And here is the story of Hachiko, the Japanese Akita who waited for years for the return of his dead master.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hachikō

I am a firm believer that there are no bad dogs, only crappy humans who victimize dogs to the point where they eventually turn on humans.

For every aggressive pitbull out there, I can show you a low-life thug who is using the dog to make up for low self esteem and to feel more macho.

Case in point: Michael Vick.
That case in point can go far beyond Michael Vick. The austere British and the Queen were involved in dogfighting long before he was born. And before that it expands many cultures and goes back thousands of years which would make half of humanity low-life thugs. Your facts -- as is your understanding of dog behavior -- are highly biased.
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Old 09-17-19, 01:32 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL
That doesn't "prove" anything. Its just a controversial set of beliefs. Just as I've already stated.

That case in point can go far beyond Michael Vick. The austere British and the Queen were involved in dogfighting long before he was born. And before that it expands many cultures and goes back thousands of years which would make half of humanity low-life thugs. Your facts -- as is your understanding of dog behavior -- are highly biased.
Whatever man.
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Old 09-17-19, 07:42 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick
Your dogs think that you are a part of their pack. And maybe you are even the alpha.
"Maybe you are even the alpha"?

If you're not the alpha, then you've done a terrible job training your dog.
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Old 09-17-19, 09:45 AM
  #124  
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Dog threads always deliver
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Old 09-17-19, 09:49 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
but my dogs certainly show more affection for me than my own wife...and that’s the truth.

If you want to find out which loves you more ... lock your wife and the dog in the trunk of your car and go shopping for 3 hours.

When you come back and open the trunk .... see which one's pleased to see you
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