livedarklions

Again, you go off on a "it's not for racing so it's not safe and/or serious" tangent.

Quit posting in General Cycling if you can't figure out how irrelevant that point is.

Try carrying home a big pile of groceries on your fragile little road bike and we'll see how "comfortable" or "adaptable" it is, or whatever point it is you think you're making with this very strange retort.

I don't consider going down a city street at 20+ mph to be slow riding or, for that matter, not to have its own technical demands. These bikes you're deriding and mischaracterizing are very good for that.

burnthesheep

Challenge accepted.

terrymorse 

Exactly. Which is why the claim that a city bike is "adaptable" (made above) is ludicrous.

redlude97

sounds like you were on the wrong sized bike then. Not sure how the width is an issue when you compare to a flatbar with barends is wider and on top of that you have no braking and shifting capabilities from the barends. They're are plenty comfortable when fitted correctly even when not aggressively and are going to still be faster than a flatbar with the same relative position because you'll be narrower having less frontal area. Just look at all the gravel bikes with positions set up with the hooks as the primary position while not being aggressive because it is a secure position

redlude97

I mean i pick up groceries all the time on my drop bar commuter and also bomb descents on the road and gravel while being comfortable in the drops

terrymorse 

I didn't make the claim that a road bike is adaptable. That claim was made by another, above, about a city bike.

Yet no matter what "adaptations" you do to a city bike, it will not perform like a road bike.

A road bike is designed for a specific type of riding, just as a city bike is, just as a mountain bike is. A city bike will never descend a twisting mountain road as well as a road bike, and neither one will descend off road as well as a mountain bike.

That being said, any bike can be configured to carry "a big pile of groceries". It's easy to do, with racks and panniers.

Finally, the claim of a "fragile little road bike": further nonsense.

livedarklions

Great, nice looking bike. I ride some pretty damn steep descents on my FX3, and can haul groceries. I've also ridden my FX3 168 road miles in one day, and I passed a lot of riders on drop bars. He's narrowed flat bar "city bikes", which is a pretty wide category, down to one usage, and it's absurd.

I've also hauled groceries on drop bars. I've got a couple of bikes I'm comfortable doing this with, but anther that would be totally useless in that regard because it's really just built for going fast. I'm quite comfortable on both kinds of bars, but this constant nonsense that there's something wrong with people who find flat bars more comfortable, and that they can't ride them safe and fast is just elitist crap.

redlude97

I think there are alot of people here shouting past each other due to a lack of broad experience across different bikes. Drop bars can be set up as relaxed and comfortable as lot of flat bar bikes especially now with the explosion of gravel bikes. Drop bars are not just exlusively aggressive road racing bikes and haven't been since pretty much the beginning since touring bikes exist. Clearly flat bars can be set up fast for various types of riding as well or relaxed and stable(sluggish to some). Lots of misinformation going on in this thread

livedarklions

And mountain bikes suck on the road.

I made the claim, and I've done centuries on flat bar bikes I've been told couldn't be used in that way. You said that city bikes are designed only for slow riding by casual riders, which is utter nonsense, and by adaptable, I meant that they are excellent at navigating city streets under load at fast speeds. They are also excellent highway bikes, which people who just assume they aren't don't realize. I think I mentioned that I did a 187 mile round trip with 10,675 feet of climbs and descents in two days on my FX3 two weeks ago, and I had no issues of comfort or control. I've done basically the same ride on drop bars, and I really didn't have that much of a preference for either. They were both just fine or the purpose.

I find that people who tell me all the things that can't be done on flat bars really just don't have a clue what they're talking about--they just mean they've never done it.

Newspaper_Nick

Been there, done that. I felt no benefit in using dropbars as an upright rider. I could not pierce through the wind or anything. Actually, i realized that when you show even a slight bit of your belly to the wind, it will just slow you down and after that, there is really not much of a difference (at least for me) between the dropbars or flatbars. How many of us can really get as low as the racers out there. And I don't really want to endure the discomfort of a narrower hold just to be smaller against the wind, i am not racing man, i am just trying to have a good time on my bike. What is the point? My drops were 44cm wide, which is relatively wide even for the drops, but still. It is nowhere near my current 64cm flats. You might say "well, drops will give you more hand positions", and i can agree to a certain point, yes, it is good to have something to pull while climbing, but still, when i compare the give and take, i still think i lose less and take more on the flats. It is definately much more comfortable for me. And that is the most important thing. Because i can go further when i am comfortable.

terrymorse 

FX3 is a road bike with flat bars.

terrymorse 

False, I did not write that.

Yes, city bikes are designed for the needs of casual riders who travel slowly in the city. They are used by other riders for other purposes, but that is not the design intent.

An FX3 is not a city bike. It is a road bike with flat bars.

livedarklions

I'm comfortable and fast on both, and I think I'm quite safe on both as well. What I'm objecting to is telling people who find one and not the other comfortable that there is something wrong or unfit about them. Bodies come in all sorts of sizes, shapes and flexibilities, and comfort is a damn subjective thing. I can get into a pretty good aero position on the drops, but I think it's asinine to pretend that I find it as comfortable as riding on the hoods, the hooks or flat bars. I also think one of the posters here is making some pretty asinine claims about the comparative safety of the two types of bars.

wolfchild

It all depends on what type of a mountain bike and it also depends on the riders perspective...Yes mountain bikes are slower and take more effort to keep them moving on pavement but to say that they suck is just plain wrong.

redlude97

Thats the thing, people are comparing apples to oranges, you can and should be able to fit a drop bar bike to be as comfortable in the drops as you would be on the hoods if you want to use that position, or in a similar position on a flat bar bike, ie with a similar back angle. Choosing the right size frame and geometry(stack and reach) combined with stems and bar shape should be able to accommodate a wide range of fit positions. What is common though is that someone gets on a aggressive road geometry drop bar bike and then conclude drop bars are uncomfortable. Notice how high my drops are on commuter above? Its comfortable enough for hours on end in the drops because I've optimized that position. My road racing bike on the other hand has almost 3" more drop and is less comfortable. Even the hoods on that bike is a lower position than the drops on that bike so its all relative to setup.

terrymorse 

Not sure to which poster you are referring, but let me be clear:

Control of flat bars vs hooks of drop bars is roughly equivalent, although it is easier to get your upper torso lower when using hooks. This can help somewhat in hard braking situations and high speed turns.

Control while using the hoods of drop bars is diminished. There is no equivalent diminished control position on flat bars.

terrymorse 

Precisely. Comfort (or lack thereof) is a direct result of fitting. Which is why I wrote above:

"Barring some physical abnormality, drops are comfortable on a properly fitted bike."

Metieval

all depends.

What do you do all day? Do you sit in a chair for 8 hours a day at work? then yes an upright City bike might just be the most comfortable thing for that person.

On the Flip side, Laying paver bricks all day. bending over picking stuff up off the ground. Twisting and shoveling , for 8-10 hours a day, and then getting on an aero bike feels right at home.

the human body can be limber, you say we evolved to be upright. maybe so, but we also didn't evolve to be upright and stiff as boards because most people sit more than they exercise/stretch.

livedarklions

Fair enough.

HTupolev

Range of hand positions. There's nothing inherently aggressive or non-aggressive about drop bars, or flat bars, or any other type of bars. It's all about setup.

I'd flip your point around: what's the point of drop bars if you're going to fit them so aggressively that many of the hand positions are impractical to use?

Riders ride in whatever posture they feel like riding in, if their handlebar makes it practical. Positioning drop bars excessively low does not mean that the rider will ride more aggressively, it means that they will stick to using only the least-aggressive hand positions on the bar.
Riding in the drops with the arms outstretched is far from the most aggressive position offered by a drop handlebar. Using level forearms on the hoods or in the hooks, or riding in the phantom aerobars (or similar), are typically more aggressive (in addition to some aero tucks that use hands on the bar tops to bring the arms against the torso). And, the level forearms tend to make those postures more aerodynamic even if they weren't any lower. For this reason, having the bars so low that the drops are barely usable can sometimes ironically make it a bit harder for a rider to get aero, since it makes the super-aero level-forearm postures less practical.

Metieval

It is hard not to pigeon hole rider based on their tire choice. I say this in a good way, as those tires are the choice of someone who drives their bike.

Newspaper_Nick

There are many different type of flat bars out there offering a wide range of hand positions. Jones H Loop bar is a great example.

Rajflyboy

Girls like guys who use the drops better than guys riding flats.

Thats the answer.

sjanzeir

Ah... so it's all about just how willing one is to bend over, then.

livedarklions

This cannot end well.