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Dog chase with a twist

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Dog chase with a twist

Old 10-14-19, 10:33 AM
  #26  
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The typical junkyard dog shouldn't need more than a swift rap across the snout to be dissuaded to break off an attack. However, I've seen some breeds such as pit bull go after their prey and fixate on doing as much damage as possible.

Even so, dogs are not vindictive, they just do what dogs do. That is, chase after anything and anyone that enters their territory they see as as threat.

I don't think anyone here is insinuating on doing any unnecessary harm to the animal. Rather, the suggestion is that dog attacks will occur, and that there are solutions to those attacks (something all cyclist will need to face at some point), and that we should be prepared and ready to apply them in the event they do happen. Being prepared is the best thing for the cyclist and the animal.

Still, if the dog's intentions become contrary to your safety and well-being then your choice is clear: owner present or otherwise, use whatever means is necessary to neutralize the attack and avoid getting bitten.
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Old 10-14-19, 10:48 AM
  #27  
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The dog that got me was an "attack dog" breed (German Shepherd) and a solid kick to the snout did not prevent a second bite. He did not back down until the owner called him off. I was off the bike using it as a shield at that point. That's the kind of stuff these dogs were bred to do, back before it was illegal and people did it for fun.

So it probably pays to be extra wary of dogs breeds that have been bred to attack people, since they won't be as easily deterred as the typical "Junkyard Mutt" or foolhardy terrier. These would be your Dobermans and Rotts, Shepherds, and maybe less so Pit Bulls, since they were mostly for fighting and bear baiting type stuff.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:19 AM
  #28  
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I have no experience w this but someone wrote on a similar recent thread about the same thing carry a small water bottle w ammonia and slowing down so it catches up then squirting that donít know if itís harmless sounds awful but that rider sounded like heís been attacked numerous times and thatís his go-to
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Old 10-14-19, 11:26 AM
  #29  
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I just realized that the only other dog that ever attacked me was also a German Shepherd, also with the owner present, and the attack also did end until the owner called the dog off. I was about 7 years old at the time, should have sued the SOB.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:35 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Witterings View Post
I would imagine anyone that treats a dog like this and openly promotes giving them "A busted jaw, poked eye, smacked temple, torn up nose/lips" is probably a bully themselves.

Guess a dog just smells the fear from someone like that a mile away and is probably why they might give chase.
That'd be incorrect.

Point was, giving a violent dog caught in the act of being violent a smack to get him to halt doing so. Whether that ended up damaging part of the dog or not isn't the point. It's about halting the violence. It's not about unjustifiably bringing violence to a dog.
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Old 10-14-19, 11:40 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Ross520 View Post
What is a "bully" dog?
Strange phrase, I suppose. Though, we all understand what a bully is, when speaking of humans. Some dogs act that way, delivering unjustifiable violence upon people. Call it what you will, but we know 'em when we see 'em. Thought it was clear. Apologies if you felt it was not.

They earn responses sufficient to halt their preying upon us, when caught doing so. Whether that's with a spray of something, or a stick, boot, being grabbed by the scruff of the neck and tossed, or whatever's necessary to halt the violent behavior.

A "smack on the nose" often is far more attention-getting and violence-halting, in my own experience. Have had a few come at me, when outdoors. And have had a few instances where a good rap on the nose immediately change their tune. Having the means of accomplishing that while, say, riding a bike isn't a bad thing. Might well be a useful method, if a dog gets so far as to be tearing at a person's pants or leg or, in a situation where a spray doesn't have utility (ie, in windy conditions).
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Old 10-14-19, 12:49 PM
  #32  
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Some time ago, near San Pascual in northern San Diego county a dog started chasing me. Out in the country near the battlefield cemetary. When he was alongside, I unclipped my right foot and kicked at him. Caught him right under the chin and he was sent up into the air. Flipped and landed on his back with much barking and whining. The absolute wrong thing to do, I could have knocked myself down too. But I didnít and the result is remembered with satisfaction to this day.
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Old 10-14-19, 02:27 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bassmanbob View Post
While Iíd hate to have to use it, Iíve thought about carrying mace with me on my slower commutes. Whatís the consensus on that?
Pepper spray has proven effective in my experience. Be sure you don't spray yourself or get it on your gloves.
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Old 10-14-19, 05:12 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
I just realized that the only other dog that ever attacked me was also a German Shepherd, also with the owner present, and the attack also did end until the owner called the dog off. I was about 7 years old at the time, should have sued the SOB.
Well thatís traumatizing
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Old 10-14-19, 06:34 PM
  #35  
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Bicyclists who try and outrun dogs are essentially training the dogs to do it again and to become ever more obsessive and aggressive about successfully catching you. You've turned it into a challenging game for them. They're going to think about it all the time, have dreams about it, and start looking for opportunities to do it more. Try to avoid thinking just about yourself or placing blame on the dog owners. Think of the poor dogs. Dogs are good people and shouldn't be harassed by bicyclists. Stop and say hi. Stroke their thighs and be affectionate. That's all they really want. You've allowed them to win and soon the game is no longer much fun. What happens if during the chase the dog is injured? Maybe the dog owner will violently retaliate against you. People love their dogs and consider them family members. Be considerate.

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 10-14-19 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 10-15-19, 07:52 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by oldgeezerjeff View Post
With a few exceptions...there really is no such thing as a bad dog...just bad dog owners. Unfortunately some people think their dog is special and shouldn't be subject to the same rules as "other dogs". I see it all the time in campgrounds (for that matter any public space), where dogs are allowed to defecate anywhere and owners never cleanup, or the dog is allowed to bark and howl all the time. I have been in the city park and watched dog owners let their dogs chase the ducks and geese around as though that is good sport. Yet if you try to have a conversation with these people about their dog and the rules, you are simply met with anger. After all, their little "fur baby" is special.
And then just realize that they probably also have or will eventually have children and you realize what's wrong with our society.
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Old 10-15-19, 08:40 AM
  #37  
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^^^^^^^^^ +1
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Old 10-15-19, 10:56 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
Bicyclists who try and outrun dogs are essentially training the dogs to do it again and to become ever more obsessive and aggressive about successfully catching you. You've turned it into a challenging game for them. They're going to think about it all the time, have dreams about it, and start looking for opportunities to do it more. Try to avoid thinking just about yourself or placing blame on the dog owners. Think of the poor dogs. Dogs are good people and shouldn't be harassed by bicyclists. Stop and say hi. Stroke their thighs and be affectionate. That's all they really want. You've allowed them to win and soon the game is no longer much fun. What happens if during the chase the dog is injured? Maybe the dog owner will violently retaliate against you. People love their dogs and consider them family members. Be considerate.


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Old 10-15-19, 11:03 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
Bicyclists who try and outrun dogs are essentially training the dogs to do it again and to become ever more obsessive and aggressive about successfully catching you. You've turned it into a challenging game for them. They're going to think about it all the time, have dreams about it, and start looking for opportunities to do it more. Try to avoid thinking just about yourself or placing blame on the dog owners. Think of the poor dogs. Dogs are good people and shouldn't be harassed by bicyclists. Stop and say hi. Stroke their thighs and be affectionate. That's all they really want. You've allowed them to win and soon the game is no longer much fun. What happens if during the chase the dog is injured? Maybe the dog owner will violently retaliate against you. People love their dogs and consider them family members. Be considerate.
Noting that I am a dog lover, and have lived with dogs for well over 50 years, I have the scars to prove that your advice is not always optimal. Assuming every dog is friendly and dropping your guard is akin to assuming every neighborhood is friendly and leaving your doors open.

Like people, dogs are individuals, and there is no one way to approach all dogs that is guaranteed to work. Be aware of the risks, learn to read behavior, and keep your distance to avoid bites or other injuries.
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Old 10-15-19, 11:05 AM
  #40  
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Can we just have a sticky thread where the same six people who always post again and again on this subject can just growl and snap at each other?
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Old 10-15-19, 06:15 PM
  #41  
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Talk about being too old or too stoopid to quit responding to these threads... Here I am!
I spent five years of my life around high school working in a veterinary clinic that handled mostly domesticated animals. I was presented with animals which were domesticated and docile, and a few that were not ever going to be human friendly. I have vivid memories of the the Saint Bernard that was raised in a fraternity house that wanted nothing to do with humans. It took every ounce of my body to hold that dog down while he was being euthanized, and it was with restraints placed on the dog to help me. During that time I experienced good dogs, and bad dogs regarding people interaction, and I have always found that dogs will chase anything that does not bark back at them. Pumps across the noses, stones between the eyes, or pepper spray,will make them quit the chasing behavior. But it is a learning experience just as B.F. Skinner taught us. Anything that is painful will be avoided and the lesson needs to be from the cyclist. Just my opinion on this... Smiles, MH
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Old 10-16-19, 02:41 PM
  #42  
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Every dog that has chase me has responded to something that they have heard before, "STAY!" Believe it or not, dogs will recognize words they are taught. I had one bolting straight at me, I yelled out stay and he stopped in his tracks. He actually looked a little confused like, "How did that human know words that I know?" type of look. Most dogs are taught how to stay, and it means not to move, so they stop.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:49 PM
  #43  
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^^^ Tried it many times, various different commands, dogs universally ignore me. And I think I know why.

I hate to state the obvious, but what is a trained dog doing running out in the road anyway, chasing cyclists? Had a momentary lapse of reason? Therefore, chances are, the dog that's chasing you ... probably isn't trained! And won't recognize commands.
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Old 10-16-19, 02:57 PM
  #44  
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I have written this before in another thread and it is my own experience with the dogs, so i am not pushing it as the defacto way of dealing with dog attacks but here goes. All the dogs that attacked me while i was riding "stopped" when i stopped. And they chased me when i tried to outrun them. And again, when i stopped, they also stopped. I am not saying that their aggressive behavior turned into compassion or anything, they still kept on barking at me and showing their teeth and all, but, they did not try to jump on me or eat me. Even when there were more than one of them, they just tried to shoo me off from their territory by taunting me. I figured out that if i try to run away from them, they see me as prey, or a weak coward. But when i stop, get off the bike and face them with a firm stance, they just start to see me as a strong opponent. Now, maybe i have yet to meet my dog nemesis who will jump on me and try to get a bite, but that happened so many times that it has become an automatic response for me. When i am attacked by dogs, i just stop. And they too stop. Just sayin.
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Old 10-16-19, 03:59 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
I have written this before in another thread and it is my own experience with the dogs, so i am not pushing it as the defacto way of dealing with dog attacks but here goes. All the dogs that attacked me while i was riding "stopped" when i stopped. And they chased me when i tried to outrun them. And again, when i stopped, they also stopped. I am not saying that their aggressive behavior turned into compassion or anything, they still kept on barking at me and showing their teeth and all, but, they did not try to jump on me or eat me. Even when there were more than one of them, they just tried to shoo me off from their territory by taunting me. I figured out that if i try to run away from them, they see me as prey, or a weak coward. But when i stop, get off the bike and face them with a firm stance, they just start to see me as a strong opponent. Now, maybe i have yet to meet my dog nemesis who will jump on me and try to get a bite, but that happened so many times that it has become an automatic response for me. When i am attacked by dogs, i just stop. And they too stop. Just sayin.
This has been my experience too. As a kid I went exploring alone the back roads through the foothills of Marijuanaville near San Francisco and suddenly was surrounded by about seven angry dobermans. They were good dogs though and just doing their job. They forced me to turn back and I did. Running from or violently confronting chasing dogs might save you once, but it's going to be hell for the next cyclist who comes along.

In the old days kids played outside all the time. People also let their dogs roam unleashed. That was normal. My parents told me, "Never run from an aggressive dog. Never tease a dog. It's your evasiveness, fear, and aggression that provoke them." People back then knew this from experience.

Last edited by Clem von Jones; 10-16-19 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 10-16-19, 04:23 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
^^^ Tried it many times, various different commands, dogs universally ignore me. And I think I know why.

I hate to state the obvious, but what is a trained dog doing running out in the road anyway, chasing cyclists? Had a momentary lapse of reason? Therefore, chances are, the dog that's chasing you ... probably isn't trained! And won't recognize commands.
Before we go anywhere with this and people think I'm condoning bad dog behavior I'm absolutely not!!! And a LARGE part of it comes down to the owners but dogs will never be 100% reliable however well they're trained.

I don't ever think a dog should be allowed to roam free out of your property without you there to supervise them (partially for the dogs safety as well) .... but if someone is living in farming country miles from anywhere I can "kind of" understand why they might ... especially if a car only passes by once every 3 days ... but again I'm not saying that's right.

A dogs instinct is a hunter .... Hunted animals like rabbits and deer aren't hunters.... they're prey and they run if they see something that may be a hunter so however well trained the dog is their instinct is to chase what's blatantly advertising themselves as prey because they run away.

Then we go into .... 2 Red blooded males (both married) ... they're away with work staying in a hotel and they both get hit on by the most beautiful woman they've ever seen in their entire life saying take me and you can do whatever you want for the night ..... one may say no thank you I'm married .... and the other who's got a bit more testosterone may not be able to resit the temptation.
They may both be under the cosh from their wives / partners but one just can't resist that temptation and that's why some dogs (may be the same owner / trainer) are better behaved than others.

Ahhh .... just before I posted this which was in response to Lemon1985's post I thought I'd check if there was anything else and just realised I'm kind of re-iterating what Newspaper_Nick has already said and whichever dog lover / hater thread you read so many people say the minute you stop ..... the dog stops for the reasons I and Newspaper_Nick have said .... however there are always potential exceptions to this.
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Old 10-16-19, 09:12 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Newspaper_Nick View Post
I have written this before in another thread and it is my own experience with the dogs, so i am not pushing it as the defacto way of dealing with dog attacks but here goes. All the dogs that attacked me while i was riding "stopped" when i stopped. And they chased me when i tried to outrun them. And again, when i stopped, they also stopped. I am not saying that their aggressive behavior turned into compassion or anything, they still kept on barking at me and showing their teeth and all, but, they did not try to jump on me or eat me. Even when there were more than one of them, they just tried to shoo me off from their territory by taunting me. I figured out that if i try to run away from them, they see me as prey, or a weak coward. But when i stop, get off the bike and face them with a firm stance, they just start to see me as a strong opponent. Now, maybe i have yet to meet my dog nemesis who will jump on me and try to get a bite, but that happened so many times that it has become an automatic response for me. When i am attacked by dogs, i just stop. And they too stop. Just sayin.
Now in order to find where your logic fails ask yourself one question: am I more likely to get bitten if I stop or if I keep moving? Unless your goal as a cyclist is to stand your ground and confront the dog to determine who's alpha, you should be getting away as quickly as possible to avoid being bitten.

When you stop you move from the chase phase to the attack/fight phase and increase the likelihood of being injured. Dogs behave in an innate and predictable way. Therefore, you have to chose to be smarter than the dog.
Originally Posted by Clem von Jones View Post
This has been my experience too. As a kid I went exploring alone the back roads through the foothills of Marijuanaville near San Francisco and suddenly was surrounded by about seven angry dobermans. They were good dogs though and just doing their job. They forced me to turn back and I did. Running from or violently confronting chasing dogs might save you once, but it's going to be hell for the next cyclist who comes along.

In the old days kids played outside all the time. People also let their dogs roam unleashed. That was normal. My parents told me, "Never run from an aggressive dog. Never tease a dog. It's your evasiveness, fear, and aggression that provoke them." People back then knew this from experience.
It sounds like a limited understanding of dog behavior. The advice you should have gotten should have been, "never run from an aggressive dog" when your back is to the wall. If you can't get away (before he's on you) then you have no choice but to defend yourself. Otherwise, if you have time and distance to get to safety first, then do so.

A moving cyclist already has momentum, so assuming your have safe clearance, you should continue forward. As stated above, the dogs will break off the chase as soon as you leave their territory. Would you stand and try to fight a dog or group of dogs when you can simple step outside the fence? The first phase of safety is always -- avoidance.
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Old 10-17-19, 02:33 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Now in order to find where your logic fails ask yourself one question: am I more likely to get bitten if I stop or if I keep moving? Unless your goal as a cyclist is to stand your ground and confront the dog to determine who's alpha, you should be getting away as quickly as possible to avoid being bitten.

When you stop you move from the chase phase to the attack/fight phase and increase the likelihood of being injured. Dogs behave in an innate and predictable way. Therefore, you have to chose to be smarter than the dog.It sounds like a limited understanding of dog behavior. The advice you should have gotten should have been, "never run from an aggressive dog" when your back is to the wall. If you can't get away (before he's on you) then you have no choice but to defend yourself. Otherwise, if you have time and distance to get to safety first, then do so.

A moving cyclist already has momentum, so assuming your have safe clearance, you should continue forward. As stated above, the dogs will break off the chase as soon as you leave their territory. Would you stand and try to fight a dog or group of dogs when you can simple step outside the fence? The first phase of safety is always -- avoidance.
I have two answers to that. First, I have encountered agressive dogs countless times. None of them were stupid enough to jump on me. You see, dogs that "jump" on people to bite do this because most of the time they are "trained to do so". A normal dog that grew up in a natural environment with other dogs, a dog that didn't get much of a training other than "sit, lie, good boy" stuff will never jump on a person unless really threatened or you try to run away from it. If you train your dog to attack, that is what it will do as a pavlovian response. Dogs are not stupid. They do not want to put themselves in harm's way. A sane dog would not attack you unless it is sure that it can beat you in a fight. Have you ever seen dogs fight with each other? They do not directly go for it. They first weigh each other's will and strength and try to figure out if that is a fight that they can win. They never just jump on a fight without giving it a thought first. That is why i do not recommend running. It shows weakness.

Second, do you really think that you can outrun a dog? Or do you think that you have avoided a dog attack just by riding "faster" than the attacking dog? Let me tell you a fact. If a dog wants to get to you, that is what it will do. You can not run away from a quadrupedal hunter as a bipedal. That is why i carry a knife on the bike. Because i know that one day, i will face that poor dog who was trained to attack people and let loose and there will be no stopping it. I will feel really sorry if i have to use that knife on that poor chap. Becase to me, that dog denies its dog instinct and logic and acts the way it was trained to act by humans.

If you try to run/pedal away from an angry dog, you are putting yourself in much more danger than a dog bite. This behavior could cause an accident or a fall which can be much more devastating than a dog bite. ıf you want to defend yourself from a dog attack, just carry a weapon/spray whatever. I have a friend who is really scared of dogs. Whenever she hears barking, she just loses it and pushes the pedals as hard as she can without even thinking where she is going. At one incident, she narrowly avoided a crash with a vehicle. DO NOT DO THAT.

Last edited by Newspaper_Nick; 10-17-19 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 10-17-19, 07:30 AM
  #49  
55murray
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But if you sprint from chasing dogs, you increase your average speed, could even pick up a KOM. Conversely, Strava will punish you for slowing down and confronting dogs. We are out there to ride after all. I'll outrun them every chance I get.
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Old 10-17-19, 11:44 AM
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blacknbluebikes 
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I keep a live chipmunk velcro'd my handlebars, then just toss it toward the dog. Works every time.
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