livedarklions

If this is supposed to be an argument for less regulation, I don't see it.

Frankly, I hope you get caught.

PepeM

Worry not, the scooter is now registered and sits in my garage unused. I appreciate your concern though.

aclinjury

waiting for 2 ebikes to collide, man that will be one spectacular collision on the MUP

livedarklions

Well, you brought it up, and I'll be damned if I know what your point was. I got away with this, so people shouldn't be licensed for driving motor vehicles?

We've already got ebikes on the market that advertise the ability to propel weight of bike + rider + 300 pounds of cargo at speeds greater than 20 mph, so obviously the lines between motorcycles and ebikes are getting blurrier. If you can come up with criteria more fitting than limiting them to 28 mph on engine only, we're all ears.

jon c. 

Around here, I think most are legit. Because with a heavier rider most of them can't reach 30 mph. They can tie up traffic a bit, but that's mostly on low speed urban roads so the effective delays are minimal. A few people ride them in bike lanes, but in places where there isn't enough bike traffic to make a difference. Of course they're disallowed on MUPs.

chas58

I'm not sure I see the problem. You are driving a car and you are upset someone on a light weight EV kept up with you? Most people drive to work solo in heavy expensive cars, and someone is on a light electric vehicle and that is bad? Sounds good to me. Or are you saying that at a certain speed one should have a license? That is a reasonable argument if that is what you are saying. Easy to fix - move to Europe. LoL. Personally, I think having a roughly ~15mph assist speed limit on ebikes rather defeats the purpose.

The crazy thing about the US is that there is no infrastructure for vehicles that travel in the 15-25mph speed range (although that is changing a bit).

Its kinda fun. Drafting behind an SUV, or a delivery van, I'm happy in the 25-30mph range. Its one of favorite parts of my commute if/when I get to do that. It requires some traffic though, as most people will go faster if nothing is in front of them. But, in a line of cars with the lead doing near the speed limit on a 25mph road - sure.

So, what is your solution? No ebikes on public roads? License everyone over a certain speed? Lord, you'll get all kinds of answers over what that speed will be. Then there is the American ideal of we want our freedom and certainly don't want the restrictions on "personal freedom" that Europe seems to impose.

Generally, the US has gravitated to 28mph as the limit on pedal assist ebikes - which seems reasonable to me. Certainly doing much over that without pedaling is moped territory.

Marcus_Ti

The crazier thing...is that we think/want/expect separate dedicated infrastructure to get out and enjoy the outdoors, as we've given up on roads ever being safe for anything other than steel roll-cages.

Rides4Beer

We already have that here. You can ride a moped on the road with no license/insurance as long it's under 50cc's. We call them DUIcycles, they're everywhere. And now SC has made it legal to drive golf carts on public roads that are 35mph or less, fun stuff.

GlennR

OK, if you can ride a 2 wheel electric vehicle that can do 30mph, what about a 4 wheel electric vehicle?

Imagine riding a MUP and having a golf cart pass you doing 30mph?

KraneXL

This right here. ☝️

If you don't have to pedal it to go, then NO RIDING in the bike lane.

Marcus_Ti

Imagine?

On Saturday home-game handegg days....the MUPs get repurposed by parking-lot vendors as golf cart highways. I haven't used any of the MUP heading downtown in My Fair City in years on a Saturday home game day. Every single inch of infrastructure gets repurposed for football use.

Paul Barnard

Like it or not, ebike laws/rules/regulations are coming. It is utterly inescapable. The conflicts are becoming more common and sooner or later there's going to be a high profile accident that seals the deal. High speed jerks on a bike path

rydabent

I know it is a sore subject for them, but have you noticed the main source complaining about E-bikes come from the "real cyclist"? They are simply livid that an old man on an E-bike can go up a hill just as fast as they can.

KraneXL

Its not about the race to the top of the hill. Rather, does that "old man" have the snap judgement and reflexes to handle that boost in speed responsibly?

Good cyclist (just like good drivers) have the ability to look down the line and anticipate danger. Bad cyclist only react after the fact. The only saving grace up until now was that their speed was slower than their judgement. Keep that in mind the next time you see grand dad (or grandma) tearing up the sidewalk on his way to Bingo.

Metieval

when we as a Society wants to strip almost half of the issued driver license away from people that can't be responsible drivers. Then and only then do I think we can complain and take up your cause for E-bike responsibility.

"2018 Third Consecutive Year of at Least 40,000 Motor Vehicle Deaths"
"An estimated 4.5 million people were seriously injured in car crashes in 2018."


Let me know when E-bikes come close to those numbers. And I might just jump onto you hyperbole of old people on the way to Bingo on e-bikes are a danger

PepeM

They are allowed to fly down the interstate at 60+ mph in a 5000+ lbs vehicle. Rather have them doing 28mph on an ebike any day of the week.

Reynolds 

"Real cyclists" ride bicycles, with no motor. E-bikes are motorcycles (any of them, pedal assist or not, 10mph or 50mph top speed) to me, so if they pass me I'm just as bothered as if a Harley passes me (I'm an old man, BTW).

GlennR

Here's my take on pedal assist.

My 29 year old son currently can drop me at any moment, but we do ride together at times.I'm 63 and hope to do many rides in the future. But there will come a time that I simply can not keep up with him or ride as far. A pedal assist bike will allow me to still ride with him.

For a semi-serious cyclist, a pedal assist makes a "C" rider a "B" and a "B" rider a "A".

If you buy one to claim KOMs, you're a poor example of a human being.

Miele Man

What I don't like about most of the E-bike riders I've encountered is that very few of them seem to have any knowledge of the rules of the road, MUP etiquette or even decent common sense. I've had a number of very close calls with E-bike riders passing me on the right where I do NOT expect someone to be passing. Plus, those E-bike riders were moving at a high rate of speed so that any collision would have been quite severe to me.

Cheers

KraneXL

The problem with e-bikes is that the natural tendency is to make the ride as easy as possible. As the ride gets more difficult will you pedal harder or just "switch" to a higher assist mode? Its just too tempting to simply push a button and zip up the hill rather than bog down and grind up the hill like you used to before on your standard bike.

Even the strongest of us that start off with the best of intention can be temped to lighten the load That's especially true if you have an ailment that allow you to rationalize doing so. When some joint goes bad you need to increase the force not deny it. That will only accelerate the decay.

The only way to combat that temptation is to preset and lock the assist, or have it monitored so that you know how much of the effort is you and how much you're getting from the bike motor. At least that way you know if you're still getting a good workout. The "feeling" is just not enough.

On the other hand, if you're out riding it for transportation or just for enjoyment then none of the above applies and you can just ride and have fun..

You get the instant gratification of speed and power of a champion without putting in any of the time, training and effort it took them to get there. For example, a responsible racing bike cyclist would never ride his bike fast on the sidewalk.

An e-bike rider capable of the same speeds (and faster) will. This isn't an e-bike hate post. Rather, a responsible cyclist reminder -- with greater speed comes greater responsibility.

Troul 

Only allow e-bikes manufactured in its country of origin to be of legal use while also mandating the oem to govern the e-bikes to an established "standard" mph within the country of origin.

It's could help pave the regulated way of e-bikes.

livedarklions

Yeah, no. I don't give a crap about that. What's set me off on the subject is seeing some really heavy loaded cargo bikes zipping on the Minuteman. There's a lot of difference in need for regulation when the vehicles start exceeding 500 pounds and 20 mph.

Sy Reene

Most kinds of power require a substantial sacrifice by whoever wants the power. There is an apprenticeship, a discipline lasting many years. Whatever kind of power you want. President of the company. Black belt in karate. Spiritual guru. Whatever it is you seek, you have to put in the time, the practice, the effort. You must give up a lot to get it. It has to be very important to you. And once you have attained it, it’s your power. It can't be given away: it resides in you. It is literally the result of your discipline.

Now what is interesting about this process is that, by the time someone has acquired the ability to kill with his bare hands, he has also matured to the point where he won't use it unwisely. So that kind of power has a built-in control. The discipline of getting the power changes you so that that you won't abuse it.

-character Ian Malcom / Jurassic Park (the book, not the movie)

PepeM

It is true that no SERIOUS CYCLIST has ever behaved like an idiot on the MUPodrome. Or at least I have never read any such thing in these forums.

PepeM

That's what people in cars say of cyclists.