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DIY Electrolytes Drink

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DIY Electrolytes Drink

Old 11-25-19, 02:58 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You're really luck that works for you. The trouble with using just salt is that the body needs potassium in order to use the salt properly. If I'm using a DIY energy drink I mix up the dry ingredients and put them into small zip-lock type bags. that way I'm carrying water if I need just water and I can add the mix if/when ineed it.

I stopped buying Gatorade powder when it became a bit of sodium and potassium with a LOT of sugar.

Cheers
That's complete nonsense.
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Old 11-25-19, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Actually, sodium and potassium are absorbed into the body by independent mechanisms, which don't affect each other. You may be referring to the Na/K ATPase, which maintains the charge and concentration gradients for Na+ and K+ across cell membranes, but you would die in ventricular fibrillation long before your potassium could get that low enough to affect that.

Both, Na and K, however, are made significantly more efficient in the presence of glucose. This is one reason there is sugar in electrolyte drinks. The other is that potassium salts taste horrible. There probably is an excess of sugar in most of the commercial stuff.
Is there any evidence that potassium supplements are beneficial to athletes? My impression from the literature I've looked at is food is a much better source..
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Old 11-25-19, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Is there any evidence that potassium supplements are beneficial to athletes? My impression from the literature I've looked at is food is a much better source..
Unlike sodium, which really does need to be replaced “online” in athletes, potassium is actively stored and retained in cells and the body has a significant reserves. This makes it unnecessary to take potassium during exercise except maybe for ultra-distance athletes and good diet alone should replete potassium offline in virtually anyone. That said, “kent hoit” and don’t get me started on magnesium.
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Old 11-25-19, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
That's complete nonsense.
Is it?

Per 1 & 2/3 Tbsp in 12 fl. oz. = 150mg sodium, 45mg potassium, and 21 GRAMS of sugar.

or this one.

per 32 grams (about 3 tbsp) = 190mg sodium, 65mg potassium, 31 GRAMS of sugar.

So yes, a bit of sodium and potassium and lots of sugar.

Cheers
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Old 11-25-19, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
As long as you don't mind a life expectancy of 25? Fortunately for modern man, we know a lot more about health and nutrition these days.
sure, the Standard American Diet is what keeps us alive and healthy.
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Old 11-25-19, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You're really luck that works for you. The trouble with using just salt is that the body needs potassium in order to use the salt properly. If I'm using a DIY energy drink I mix up the dry ingredients and put them into small zip-lock type bags. that way I'm carrying water if I need just water and I can add the mix if/when ineed it.

I stopped buying Gatorade powder when it became a bit of sodium and potassium with a LOT of sugar.

Cheers
Sugar is a feature not a bug when it comes to an energy drink mix/nutrition.
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Old 11-25-19, 07:35 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
Sugar is a feature not a bug when it comes to an energy drink mix/nutrition.
A lot of sugar only causes a brief spike followed shortly thereafter by a big drop aka Bonking.

Cheers
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Old 11-25-19, 07:39 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Is it?

Per 1 & 2/3 Tbsp in 12 fl. oz. = 150mg sodium, 45mg potassium, and 21 GRAMS of sugar.

or this one.

per 32 grams (about 3 tbsp) = 190mg sodium, 65mg potassium, 31 GRAMS of sugar.

So yes, a bit of sodium and potassium and lots of sugar.

Cheers
No, the nonsense part was needing potassium to use salt. You misremember just enough biochemistry to make you dangerous.
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Old 11-25-19, 07:48 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
A lot of sugar only causes a brief spike followed shortly thereafter by a big drop aka Bonking.

Cheers
If you think you're getting energy boosts from taking potassium and sodium during workouts, you're kidding yourself.
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Old 11-25-19, 07:56 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
A lot of sugar only causes a brief spike followed shortly thereafter by a big drop aka Bonking.

Cheers
Thats true at rest, but during exercise, circulating sugar is rapidly cleared by hungry muscle, so you dont get insulin spikes. Bonk occurs when glycogen stores are depleted and the other pathways, which form ketone bodies and glucose from non-carbohydrate substrates, are unable to meet the energy needs of muscle and brain. Unless you are intentionally trying to deplete glycogen or burn fat, there is no reason not to consume all the sweet goo you want under hard exercise conditions. Sugar is the treatment for bonk.
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Old 11-25-19, 08:46 PM
  #36  
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Unless I’m sweating my balls off in the summer, I usually find Gatorade too sugary for my tastes.


I've been trying low sugar alternatives I like better for regular use- powders. Mt Ops has some good product that has worked well for me.
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Old 11-26-19, 12:20 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
No, the nonsense part was needing potassium to use salt. You misremember just enough biochemistry to make you dangerous.
No, I remember that you need potassium to utilize sodium. A lot of people do not get enough potassium from foods when they're exercising and sweating heavily. If you just intake a sodium solution you most likely will not have enough potassium to utilize it and can run into excess sodium problems as your electrolyte levels go out of balance. There's a reason why most electrolyte replenishment drinks have both potassium and sodium in them.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/287212.php

Fast facts on potassium

  • Adults should be consuming 4,700 milligrams (mg) of potassium a day. However, fewer than two percent of people in the U.S. consume enough potassium.
  • Potassium supports blood pressure, cardiovascular health, bone strength, and muscle strength.
  • Beet greens, white beans, soy beans, and lima beans are the foods highest in potassium.
  • Potassium deficiency can lead to fatigue, weakness, and constipation. It can escalate to paralysis, respiratory failure, and painful gut obstructions.
  • Hyperkalemia means that there is too much potassium in the blood, and this can also impact health.
  • Potassium is available in supplements, but dietary sources are most healthful.
https://www.cdc.gov/salt/potassium.htm
  • Americans consume too much sodium and not enough potassium.1
  • The publication 20152020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans Cdc-pdf[PDF-10 MB]External recommends that Americans eat more foods that are good sources of potassium, including vegetables, fruits, seafood, and dairy. These foods include baked potatoes with the flesh and skin, plain yogurt, salmon, and bananas.2
  • Potassium has been classified as a nutrient of public health concern. Not eating enough potassium is associated with increased risk of hypertension, which can lead to cardiovascular diseases, such as stroke.1 Low potassium intake is caused by not eating enough vegetables, fruit, seafood, and dairy.2
*Salt is not the same as sodium. The term salt refers to sodium chloride. Sodium refers to dietary sodium. One gram of salt (sodium chloride) equals 390 milligrams of sodium.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...lancePotassium and sodium. In the pantheon of classic partners, they aren't quite up there with ****tt and Costello, Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, and John, George, Paul, and Ringo. They should be. Potassium and sodium together play a huge role in regulating blood pressure, and mounting evidence shows they are intimately involved in bone health.

Research and dietary recommendations tend to focus on one or the other, usually sodium. That's a mistake, since potassium and sodium go hand in hand. And the huge imbalance of this duo in the average American diet requires action on two fronts: getting more potassium and less sodium.

Potassium and sodium are a dynamic duo

Potassium and sodium are essential for life. Molecular pumps that pull potassium into cells and push sodium out create a chemical battery that drives the transmission of signals along nerves and powers the contraction of muscles. Potassium and sodium help the kidneys work properly. They are important for energy production and fluid balance. And researchers are beginning to tease out their roles in bone health.

Thousands of years ago, when humans roamed the earth gathering and hunting, potassium was abundant, while sodium was scarce. The so-called Paleolithic diet delivered about 11,000 milligrams (mg) of potassium a day, much of it from fruits, vegetables, leaves, flowers, roots, and other plant sources, but well under 700 mg of sodium. The scarcity of sodium is reflected in the human body's marvelous ability to hold onto this substance.

Today, sodium is easy to come by, inexpensive, and abundant in our diets. The average American consumes between one and three teaspoons of salt a day, or somewhere between 2,500 and 7,500 mg of sodium, much of it hidden in processed or prepared foods. That's far more than the scant 200 mg a day the body needs. It's a different story for potassium. We average 2,500 mg a day, about half of the 4,700 mg minimum recommended for adults.

In healthy individuals, the kidneys respond to excess sodium by flushing it out in the urine. Unfortunately, this also removes potassium. If potassium levels are low, the body tries to hoard it, which also means hanging onto sodium. Water follows sodium, leading to an increase in the amount of water in the body and the volume of blood in circulation. Blood pressure climbs, and the heart must work harder. Excess sodium blunts the ability of blood vessels to relax and contract with ease, and may also overstimulate the growth of heart tissue. All of these responses are made worse by low potassium intake.

In some people, especially those with high blood pressure, heart failure, or impaired kidney function, the kidneys hang onto sodium no matter what, further complicating the picture.

One way to flush sodium out of the body is by getting more potassium.
----------------------------
Cheers
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Old 11-26-19, 12:21 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
If you think you're getting energy boosts from taking potassium and sodium during workouts, you're kidding yourself.
You don't understand. The need for sodium and potassium is to maintain the electrolyte balance not to be a source of energy.

Cheers
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Old 11-26-19, 02:41 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Thats true at rest, but during exercise, circulating sugar is rapidly cleared by hungry muscle, so you dont get insulin spikes. Bonk occurs when glycogen stores are depleted and the other pathways, which form ketone bodies and glucose from non-carbohydrate substrates, are unable to meet the energy needs of muscle and brain. Unless you are intentionally trying to deplete glycogen or burn fat, there is no reason not to consume all the sweet goo you want under hard exercise conditions. Sugar is the treatment for bonk.
Well you started of well enough, but that last statement deserves a bit more scrutiny. I'd choose a 1/2 cup of juice. Or even better, protein powder mixed with the juice or a cup of milk (add water as needed). That way you get the immediate relief from the juice, followed by the more sustained protein and then fat.
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Old 11-26-19, 05:10 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
No, I remember that you need potassium to utilize sodium. A lot of people do not get enough potassium from foods when they're exercising and sweating heavily. If you just intake a sodium solution you most likely will not have enough potassium to utilize it and can run into excess sodium problems as your electrolyte levels go out of balance. There's a reason why most electrolyte replenishment drinks have both potassium and sodium in them.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/287212.php

Fast facts on potassium

  • Adults should be consuming 4,700 milligrams (mg) of potassium a day. However, fewer than two percent of people in the U.S. consume enough potassium.
  • Potassium supports blood pressure, cardiovascular health, bone strength, and muscle strength.
  • Beet greens, white beans, soy beans, and lima beans are the foods highest in potassium.
  • Potassium deficiency can lead to fatigue, weakness, and constipation. It can escalate to paralysis, respiratory failure, and painful gut obstructions.
  • Hyperkalemia means that there is too much potassium in the blood, and this can also impact health.
  • Potassium is available in supplements, but dietary sources are most healthful.
https://www.cdc.gov/salt/potassium.htm
  • Americans consume too much sodium and not enough potassium.1
  • The publication 20152020 Dietary Guidelines for Americans Cdc-pdf[PDF-10 MB]External recommends that Americans eat more foods that are good sources of potassium, including vegetables, fruits, seafood, and dairy. These foods include baked potatoes with the flesh and skin, plain yogurt, salmon, and bananas.2
  • Potassium has been classified as a nutrient of public health concern. Not eating enough potassium is associated with increased risk of hypertension, which can lead to cardiovascular diseases, such as stroke.1 Low potassium intake is caused by not eating enough vegetables, fruit, seafood, and dairy.2
*Salt is not the same as sodium. The term salt refers to sodium chloride. Sodium refers to dietary sodium. One gram of salt (sodium chloride) equals 390 milligrams of sodium.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/stayi...lancePotassium and sodium. In the pantheon of classic partners, they aren't quite up there with ****tt and Costello, Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire, and John, George, Paul, and Ringo. They should be. Potassium and sodium together play a huge role in regulating blood pressure, and mounting evidence shows they are intimately involved in bone health.

Research and dietary recommendations tend to focus on one or the other, usually sodium. That's a mistake, since potassium and sodium go hand in hand. And the huge imbalance of this duo in the average American diet requires action on two fronts: getting more potassium and less sodium.

Potassium and sodium are a dynamic duo

Potassium and sodium are essential for life. Molecular pumps that pull potassium into cells and push sodium out create a chemical battery that drives the transmission of signals along nerves and powers the contraction of muscles. Potassium and sodium help the kidneys work properly. They are important for energy production and fluid balance. And researchers are beginning to tease out their roles in bone health.

Thousands of years ago, when humans roamed the earth gathering and hunting, potassium was abundant, while sodium was scarce. The so-called Paleolithic diet delivered about 11,000 milligrams (mg) of potassium a day, much of it from fruits, vegetables, leaves, flowers, roots, and other plant sources, but well under 700 mg of sodium. The scarcity of sodium is reflected in the human body's marvelous ability to hold onto this substance.

Today, sodium is easy to come by, inexpensive, and abundant in our diets. The average American consumes between one and three teaspoons of salt a day, or somewhere between 2,500 and 7,500 mg of sodium, much of it hidden in processed or prepared foods. That's far more than the scant 200 mg a day the body needs. It's a different story for potassium. We average 2,500 mg a day, about half of the 4,700 mg minimum recommended for adults.

In healthy individuals, the kidneys respond to excess sodium by flushing it out in the urine. Unfortunately, this also removes potassium. If potassium levels are low, the body tries to hoard it, which also means hanging onto sodium. Water follows sodium, leading to an increase in the amount of water in the body and the volume of blood in circulation. Blood pressure climbs, and the heart must work harder. Excess sodium blunts the ability of blood vessels to relax and contract with ease, and may also overstimulate the growth of heart tissue. All of these responses are made worse by low potassium intake.

In some people, especially those with high blood pressure, heart failure, or impaired kidney function, the kidneys hang onto sodium no matter what, further complicating the picture.

One way to flush sodium out of the body is by getting more potassium.
----------------------------
Cheers
All of your sources recommend getting potassium from food and not supplements. What's nonsense is that if you're supplementing one, you need to be supplementing the other.

Yes, you get the the interaction of the electrolytes correctly, but the idea you need to "balance" your drink is silly.
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Old 11-26-19, 05:13 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
You don't understand. The need for sodium and potassium is to maintain the electrolyte balance not to be a source of energy.

Cheers
Well, posting crap like eating sugar on a ride causes bonks wouldn't exactly give me confidence that you understood that.
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Old 11-26-19, 05:26 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Well you started of well enough, but that last statement deserves a bit more scrutiny. I'd choose a 1/2 cup of juice. Or even better, protein powder mixed with the juice or a cup of milk (add water as needed). That way you get the immediate relief from the juice, followed by the more sustained protein and then fat.
For the forty thousandth time, different people have varying digestive tolerances during exercise. What you do could be a complete disaster for someone else. I deliberately don't recommend doing what I do on very long rides because it would probably make most people sick. I frequently stop for a pretty big meal halfway into a 140 mile ride. It works very well for me. I'm sure there are people who probably should just focus on carb intake because anything else is likely to make them feel really bad.

Doubt seriously you're going to be riding long enough to get much energy from the fat you ate during the ride, and if you're eating protein for energy, you're doing it wrong.



BTW, you're trying to argue with a doctor MoAlpha . This should be amusing.
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Old 11-26-19, 06:25 AM
  #43  
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The medical professional FTW.
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Old 11-26-19, 07:25 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
For the forty thousandth time, different people have varying digestive tolerances during exercise. What you do could be a complete disaster for someone else. I deliberately don't recommend doing what I do on very long rides because it would probably make most people sick. I frequently stop for a pretty big meal halfway into a 140 mile ride. It works very well for me. I'm sure there are people who probably should just focus on carb intake because anything else is likely to make them feel really bad.

Doubt seriously you're going to be riding long enough to get much energy from the fat you ate during the ride, and if you're eating protein for energy, you're doing it wrong.



BTW, you're trying to argue with a doctor MoAlpha . This should be amusing.
Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The medical professional FTW.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
F

BTW, you're trying to argue with a doctor MoAlpha . This should be amusing.
Thanks, but I could be the biggest, BSingest, bozo in the world for all anyone really knows and I expect no deference, just mutual respect. Most MDs, I also note, don't remember this basic stuff. I'm into it because I'm a physiology nerd and a, quote-unquote, athlete.
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Old 11-26-19, 09:28 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Thanks, but I could be the biggest, BSingest, bozo in the world for all anyone really knows and I expect no deference, just mutual respect. Most MDs, I also note, don't remember this basic stuff. I'm into it because I'm a physiology nerd and a, quote-unquote, athlete.

I've tangled with a few self=proclaimed "medical professionals" on the forums, and my bs detecting skills are pretty good.

I was a nurse about 35 years ago which most definitely does not qualify me to give medical advice, but I can spot someone faking it a mile off. Which is a long way to say that my opinion that your opinions are sound is not solely based on your representation that you're a doctor. Hell, I might even argue with you just because I think I'll learn something from your explanation of why I'm wrong.

Take the complement..
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Old 11-26-19, 09:32 AM
  #46  
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I'm no doctor but have drank a lot of electrolyte drinks
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Old 11-26-19, 09:35 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Take the complement..
Gratefully accepted! And all nurses have my respect.

Lawyers, on the other hand...
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Old 11-26-19, 10:14 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The medical professional FTW.
I'm glad you have faith in yours. Mine know so little about supplementation and nutrition that I stopped discussing it with her.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I've tangled with a few self=proclaimed "medical professionals" on the forums, and my bs detecting skills are pretty good.

I was a nurse about 35 years ago which most definitely does not qualify me to give medical advice, but I can spot someone faking it a mile off. Which is a long way to say that my opinion that your opinions are sound is not solely based on your representation that you're a doctor. Hell, I might even argue with you just because I think I'll learn something from your explanation of why I'm wrong.

Take the complement..
It sounds like your "detecting skills" need more practice. No one here was discussing medicine. Certainly not me. As for being wrong, you are about a great many things. I just leave you to your own device because you are intransigent.
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Old 11-26-19, 10:16 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Gratefully accepted! And all nurses have my respect.

Lawyers, on the other hand...
Jeez, when I was a nurse, I met plenty I didn't respect.

I find some of the pretend lawyers apportioning fault in the A&S forum pretty funny.
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Old 11-26-19, 10:19 AM
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livedarklions
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
I'm glad you have faith in yours. Mine know so little about supplementation and nutrition that I stopped discussing it with her.
It sounds like your "detecting skills" need more practice. No one here was discussing medicine. Certainly not me. As for being wrong, you are about a great many things. I just leave you to your own device because you are intransigent.

This from the guy who posted a sales pitch claiming it was scientific literature on fitness.
Observations on Weight Loss Post #235

He denies it a few posts later, but it was definitely from nerdfitness.com

Last edited by livedarklions; 11-26-19 at 11:07 AM.
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