First Timer! Need advice on Tubs
 

So first post! Been lurking in the shadows for a while... Here's the dilemma. I live in hilly western North Carolina. I do mostly roller riding indoors during the winter. Spring/summer/fall I do mainly 50-75 miles/ week and at least four to five centuries per year. The last century I did was 8,000 ft of climbing. I currently have Bontrager Aeolus 5 clincher wheels (50MM). I ride Ultegra 50/34t due to hilly climate. Frame is Cervelo r3. Nine times out of ten I’m never on a flat road. LBS has a pair of new Mavic Ksyrium Pro Carbon SL-T wheels that I’ve been eyeing for about two years. They’re new old stock so he’s offering a killer deal (IMO). Weight is 1195 for the set. The only problem is they’re tubulars. I like the small profile and the low weight for climbing. Frankly speaking, I think they look pretty sweet too. Now before you hit in either direction, I’m more of a pay for service then do it myself guy. (It is what it is) So if I buy them, more than likely I’ll never glue them myself.

I would be much better served to buy the same wheels in UST Tubeless, I just feel bad as we have a good rapport with the owner and they'd cost more as he doesn't have em.



My concerns are:

Flats, and the Oh cr*p moment when you’re 60 miles into a century.

Ride quality not being what I think it should be. I’ve heard they ride better than clinchers.

Limited availability of tires for purchase. Tubeless seems to the be way the world is going.

The fact that no one has bought them in two years. (Hence the sale) Resale value must be rough.



MSRP is $2,399. I’m looking at around $1K glued and installed out the door with wheel bags, warranty and pads.

Thoughts?

This season I went with Mavic USTs. I was highly skeptical. However, at approx. $450 a set, including tires, I gave it a shot. Totally blown away. Smoother, more comfortable, lighter and they spin up easily. I am not going back.

Find the Totally Tubular thread on C&V.

Don't buy them glued. If you can't glue yourself there is just no point.

Flats are easier to change with tubulars. You must know how. You must carry a spare and an inflation device. Spare tubulars rely entirely on air pressure to hold them in place and you will need a pump that reliably puts out high pressure. Tubulars do not flat as they did forty years ago. About same as equivalent light clinchers.

Tubulars ride better than anything. That is why they still exist. There are cheap nasty tubulars that ride only very slightly better than equivalent cheap nasty clinchers. Buy the good ones. The good ones also flat less and are far far easier to mount and glue.

Availability is a problem. Almost exclusively online. Maybe swap meets. Current top tires are $50-$60 delivered from the English discounters. Say Vittoria. Say Veloflex.

There is no resale value on those wheels. They come with pads? So carbon rims and rim brakes. No market for that. Bargain the price down even further and spend the money on a few spares. Really bargain. For a Cervelo I could build alloy wheels only slightly heavier and much stronger, much more serviceable for maybe 600-800. Serviceable but not Cervelo bling wheels could be even less.Vintage wheels could easily be lighter but they won't work with 11speed.

Flats not a problem AFAS changing on the road. The cords are starting to show on my 2nd consecutive rear road tire w/ no flats but # of flats depends on multiple factors.

Tire availability not a problem (order on line- sale),

but depending on a shop for any tire mounting sounds like an expensive time suck.

I like to have multiple wheelsets so any tire fussing can be done at one's convenience.

Cost is OK, but you see that tubular wheels sell at a discount. My latest, for $175 w/ good & well-glued tires:


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d277315f6a.jpg

Tubulars: for your type of riding you should want the lowest rotational mass for the climbs, but also consider safety on what must be warp-speed descents. Tubulars are made for this.

Look at the cross-section of a clincher rim (tubed or tubeless) versus a tubular rim. See those two 'hooks' projecting downwards off of the rim, which are necessary to hold the clincher tire... This is the problem. These hooks are heavy, at the worst possible place on a bike, they are fragile, and they are sharp and cause pinch flats. Plus these 2 rails are impossible to ride on in the event of a sudden deflation.

The lack of these hooks is the significant and insurmountable performance advantage of tubulars. Tubular rims are inherently lighter, stronger (for the same rim weight), almost impervious to pinch flats, and when the tire is glued correctly, possible to ride on with a deflated tire. I have blown tires at high speeds, and I can assure you that the tubular blowouts were far less dramatic than the clincher blowouts.

I am swapping back and forth between tubulars and clinchers this time of year. There is no performance overlap. The very most expensive of the clincher wheels are inferior to the least expensive of the tubular setups, most of which I obtained for free due to racer upgrades.

As far as tires: the best of the clincher tires are as good as the tubular tires. Again: repeat: tubulars have the advantage due to the rims.

Flats: inject 20cc of Stan's sealant in your tubular tire through the removable valve core. Use an old hand pump with the head guts removed for the injection. Your tire will now be almost impervious to all but the most extreme (tire killing) road incidents. And learn how to replace tires and glue them. Buy Mastik glue in the tins.

Enjoy.

Tubulars give a very nice ride, but are expensive to maintain. If you live in a flat prone area it is better to go tubeless because a flat with a tubular means your wheel is out of service for a couple of days (probably longer if you don’t do it yourself) and you have to replace an expensive tire.

I have not had a flat with a tubular in a long time, but I only use them for events and ride FWB tires. I ride out a bit to the left where there are less road derbies and carry a can of ‘Mariposa-Espresso’, which is basically fix-a-flat for bikes. If you use tubulars bring your AAA card and call it a day. AAA coverage includes picking you up if your bicycle breaks down.

If you buy them, please report back in 6 months with an update. The fact that the shop can't sell them except to a newbie should raise concerns.

Absolutely nothing in my post said I was a newbie.

Another serious limitation I thought of is my indoor rollers. I ride about 4-5 hours per week on Tacx Antares. I’ve had good luck with my clincher tires, but the wear could definitely be a factor.

No offense, just assumed that from the content. Ride on!:winter:

In my racing days we only used tubular tires. Please, please, please learn how to glue them yourself. Had a guy show up to a race on a new bike with new tubulars and very excited to race on the new set up. At the time, the bike shop that sold him the goods was the largest Schwinn dealer in the nation and had been around since the 50's, so they understood gluing tires. The second corner he rolled the front tire and crashed horribly.
That was on a Sunday. Monday he comes limping into our shop with the bike and wheels. I took one look at the wheels and pointed out to him that both tires were improperly glued. There was simply one dab of glue between each spoke hole. Unbelievable. He said they were fine all week, but the race was too much.

The glue must cover the entire surface of the rim interface with the tire. The tire also gets a coat of glue. There are instructions on the web explaining the process. This all happened before the internet was invented by Al Gore, so the shop that glued the tires obviously had an incompetent mech do the job. If you lived in my neck of the woods I would be more than happy to show you how it is done and the tricks to staying clean along the way.

Outside of this little tale, nothing rides like a tubular wheel set. Light, sometimes stinking light. Ride quality is excellent, and cornering is the same. In all the years I rode them, I only had a few flats. They can be repaired, but I paid a guy to do that for me as it rarely happened.

A newbie who does centuries with 8000 feet of climb?!

Impressive isn't it:thumb:

Rollers are no problem- just inflate fairly hard or more. I get some aluminum oxide on the tires, but no wear issues.

Small diameter rollers/ low tire pressure/ handmade tires would not be good.

Helpless isn’t a good look. If you’re not willing to learn how to glue tires and be able to swap when you get a flat, stick to clinchers.

(You CAN fix those, right?)

As well as not being a newbie, the OP said nothing about being helpless.

Your logic could apply to anything e.g. 'if you don't build your own frame, then stick to walking'.

Hardly!

Ride-ending frame issues are extremely rare, and even a framebuilder would not expect to be able to fix a major break while out on the road.

On the other hand, a cyclist should be able to mount their own tires. It's a basic skill, and flat tires ARE likely occurrences. If you can't change your own flat, you ARE helpless. No two ways around it, sorry.

I think AAA will now rescue cyclists. Maybe the ability to fix a flat or swap a tubular is no longer necessary.:rolleyes:

Stop right there. To me the whole point of tubulars is the bike/rider bond. That undefinable 'thing' that connects you and your bike. Tubulars have a great feel in your hands. Glue 'em on the rims and spin the wheel. Adjust, spin, adjust, spin. The tires bond to the rims and the rider bonds with the bike. I cant imagine trusting anyone else to glue my tires, then too I cant imagine anyone else adjusting anything on my bike. Too intimate a bond...bike and rider.

Reminds me of this- there used to be a video but seems to be gone:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/tech-tues...ocross-threads

and also this:

Copy 95%. Here's the other 5%: On wheel builds, I think that "vintage" Campagnolo 10 speed 130 mm OLD wheels can accept a 10 or 11 speed Campagnolo cassette. Probably some of the 8 speed wheels can also be used for 11, but I'm not as sure about that. That means you can buy a used Campy 10-speed rear wheel from as far back as Campy 10 has existed, and it can be cleaned, everhauled, trued, dished, and tuned into a very usable, servicable, and durable wheel for a modern-style 11 speed drivetrain. This being the case, to buy a used matched front/rear wheelset of this age with tubular rims will be pretty cheap. Tubular stuff does not keep resale value well, though it is as usable now as when it was new. Plus, Campagnolo is out of favor popularly (just read more of BF), though the Campy freaks like me and a few dozen others here still know it's worth.

Now when you tell the OP about REALLY vintage Campy tubular wheels back to the FB hub days, I agree completely. Hubs that take threaded-on freewheels are capable of 4-speed through 7-speed, but in no way can handle modern-era indexing, 8 (1997 if not earlier) to modern Campy 9, 10, 11, and 12. On the other hand, such a wheelset even in very good condition can usually be had for free or in the $25/set ballpark.

When coming up with a price of 600 I was thinking all new, all nice parts to be comparable to OPs new wheels. Sure old can be very cheap. Although if you come up with anything on FB hubs for as little as $25 send me a PM.

Big problem doing this with misc. parts is there are not a whole lots of tubular rims that work with the stress a highly dished 130 hub puts on rim. And there are not that many tubular rims in current production. If you have something as fabulous as old Mavic Bleu SSC those will work, you had better not use less than 32 spokes. Ambrosio Nemesis work fine, again with proviso use a full basket of spoke. Ambrosio F20 which are readily available will work for a while, esp for lighter riders. A handful of real obscure rims like Campy Record Pavé are strong enough. Mavic CXP rims were made in tubular, don't see many. But in general you just don't use vintage rims on 130 hubs. Major Tom rims were finally out of production last I checked. So what's left? Hed Belgium/Ardennes is the only one that comes to mind and those are not cheap. Or you go straight to carbon rims which is all different.

Going back to OP it just struck me those are Mavic wheels. Company is in trouble. No spares for those wheels even in better days. Quality of Mavic wheels has been low a long time. No way are those wheels worth $1000. Bitex or White or DT on rear hub, anything available for front hub, Hed rims, handbuild with good butted spokes and it will be a much better wheel than Mavic.

Trying to do an edit here and can't seem to insert a quote. Anyway this was a reply to Road Fan and maybe now he will see it.

Oh, come on. If you can't weld your frame back together while out on a ride, you really shouldn't be riding.

I'm a lightweight (as in 120ish light), and I love riding tubs. I have 2 tub wheelsets in addition to 2 clincher sets.
Because I'm a lightweight, I can get away with using tape instead of glue. With using tape, changing and taping on new tires is a cinch!!!

Climbing on a set of light tubular, or sprinting, feel so much better than on clinchers. Tubs just feel very snappy and you put down the power.

people in here have said you can use sealant on tubs, but I want to clarify that while sealants do work well on LATEX inner tubes, they don't work as well on BUTYL tubes. So keep this in mind when you do buy tubular tires. I have a Vittoria Pave tub tire that I've twice gotten a small puncture and twice it sealed with sealant, and the tire is still holding air and now it has worn down and squaring off the middle pretty much, so about time to replace it, which for me will just man ripping it out and putting a new tape. It's actually very therapeutic to tape on new tub!

Well, I"m NOT a lightweight but have been running taped tubs for a couple of years now with no problems. Very simple to do and I totally trust the tape I'm using.

Carogna Tubular Tape