livedarklions

On a quiet MUT, I don't have to talk very loud at all to be heard, and of the tens of thousands of times I've said "passing on your left" I've had about three people go the wrong way. I see people step right in front of the brring-brring bikes all the time on busy paths.

I don't like bells myself, and won't use them, but I'm not going to claim you shouldn't. I just think people should stop spouting made-up nonsense about how bad using your voice is.

rydabent

The thing about bells on a MUP is the fact 98% of walkers immediately react to them.

livedarklions

The thing about saying passing on your left is the fact that 99% of walkers immediately react to it.
'
I can make up statistical facts too.

Pratt

Sounds like there is an opportunity for an earbud horn that xmits to the earbuds.
Any techies have a comment

livedarklions

Not a techie, but a lawyer.

Sounds like a radio-jamming technology and probably illegal.

mr_bill

Yeah, no.

The regulatory framework is already there, see V2V, V2I, V2P and finally the catchall V2X communications. Just one of NHTSA’s top priorities. (At least until some twitter user tweets.)

Right now we are well before the knee, at chicken and egg. Once a critical mass of devices is reached....

-mr. bill

veganbikes

Spurcycle bell is the one to go with. Having bought 5 of them I really do love them, they are loud, well made and American made. Don't buy cheap knockoffs spend the money and get the genuine article.

Having used a number of different bells including some nice Crane Bells, Incredibells and the PDW bells I can say without question Spurcycle is one of the loudest and most well tuned bell. A lot of bells seem a bit flat or sharp and certainly don't have the bit that Spurcycle has. Yes they cost money but for a small lightweight good looking and sounding bell that I will have for many many many many many many years to come and doesn't feel like it will let me down I am happy to spend a little more rather than 15-20 on a cheaper bell I will have to replace quickly.

livedarklions

Yeah, no yourself, that isn't what the post described. That framework's basically a system of dedicated transponders and transmitters signaling between vehicles, infrastructure, etc. He's proposing a signal that would cut into someone's headphones and overriding the content that's being listened to (not clear by blasting the signal in the bluetooth frequency of the headphones or forcing the signal into the phone somehow). Not an expert on this, by any means, but I'd bet money there's no way to do that without running afoul of all sorts of statutes and regulations regarding deliberate interference with radio signals.

mr_bill

"Sounds like there is an opportunity for an earbud horn that xmits to the earbuds."

All the pieces are in place today to "do that." I don't know why you think this requires "deliberate interference with radio signals." It will just be another toggle switch on your smart phone to opt-in to or opt-out of.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

We're reading "horn" quite differently. If you're reading it as a device that sends a signal to another device that is designed and designated at least in part for the reception of that signal, then obviously there is no regulatory problem, but that sounds more like a walkie-talkie to my ear than a "horn". I take "horn" to mean a signal that is "loud enough" to cut through anything that can distract from it and be heard by the intended receiver whether that receiver wants it or not. Horns do not rely on anyone having opted-in to have their signal perceived, they're just a really big sonic blast. Transmitting a horn to the earbuds sounds to me like sending a big radio blast to overcome the existing signal. That's frequency jamming.

What you're describing is a lot more like the TCAS system in airplanes than horns on vehicles.

I suppose we can argue further about what the poster actually meant, but I don't particularly see the point since the language used in the post wasn't at all precise, and I think my "if you do it this way, it's illegal" and your "if you do it this way, it's legal" actually are a pretty good answer together. And I learned some stuff from the argument, which is always good, so thank you.

MikeyMK

I'm picking up on this because the lowest of quality standards on the high street truly reach new depths when it comes to cycle bells. Of course, my child likes the kids ones, but they tend to last less than a week. Some have been... 'single use'.

Sure, you can pay the money and get something a little more substantial, but the old term 'they don't make em like they used to' seems strong. Still, my issue is with the basic standard.

You really need a bell on MUPs. And as more cyclists leave the highways, bells aren't going anywhere any time soon. So i do wish for their quality to be brought up to scratch.

u235

I have an incredibell on the side of my stem. I ring it when I feel it is appropriate and if they have headphones, ignore it, randomly scatter, jump in fear, blind wave to acknowledge, or yell in confusion as I am passing so be it. I go about my way and don't skip a beat. On any given ride you'll see all of those and more. One thing though, there are sites and areas where a bell usually causes far more chaos than it prevents, at that point I just slow down take a break and stategically weave. Heavy tourist areas of a MUP/Trail and a good example is the Great Falls area of the C&O.

greatscott

Why do you think a bell would be useful? So let's say your riding alongside cars in a city, some car turns right in front of you with their windows closed and the stereo blaring, do you really think your stupid little bell would be heard? So now ask yourself a question, would it be wiser to use both hands on the brakes to stop the bike from that right turner, or one hand on the brake and other on the bell? A bell that will never be heard?

Sure some states have a law that says bikes must be equipped with a bell, but those laws are purely stupid, there is no proof whatsoever that bells prevent accidents, and because of that those states that require bells don't enforce that law.

KraneXL

You proceed from an incorrect premise. The bell is not for cars, its for pedestrians to warn them of your approach. In the case of legality, it becomes a tool for liability. The judge will rule on the law, whether you feel its a good idea or not.

livedarklions

The correctness of the premise depends on the law. Providence, RI ordinance is a perfect example the whatgreatscott is discussing --you're supposed to ring your bell whenever you're passing near any vehicle, and it has to be very loud:
Every person propelling any bicycle, tricycle, tandem bicycle, or other such vehicle, in any public highway or in any public park, square or street in the city, shall cause a signal bell to be attached thereto and shall use the same for the purpose of giving warning of its approach. Such signal bell shall be capable of being heard a distance of not less than two hundred and fifty (250) feet, and shall be so attached to the handlebar that it can be positively and directly operated by the fingers of one (1) hand of the rider without removing such hand from the handlebar. Such signal bell shall always be sounded with several rapid strokes whenever the rider is approaching any person or any vehicle, and shall be used in all cases where there is any danger of collision.

mr_bill

Have you ever received a WEA (Wireless Emergency Alert) on your phone? It's not like a walkie-talkie - at all.

BTW, you're quite right - for small values of "right." Nobody will ever virtual AirZound you though your earbuds. That would be a stupid solution to the problem.

-mr. bill

livedarklions

I think the WEA is more analogous to the air raid sirens of old than a horn or walkie talkie. I remember as a kid that they used the sirens in Minneapolis when there was a tornado warning, and they false-alarmed so much that everyone would ignore them when there really was a tornado. I'm guessing Hawaiians are going to have a bit of that problem if they ever have to actually use the cell phone EAS.

noglider 

You can get well-made bells on ebay. There's a wide price range. Just get an old bell.

BobbyG

Polite cyclists use a bell for pedestrians, and if no acknowledgement, then maybe a toot on the horn, and then if there is no response from a pedestrian, polite cyclists slow or stop, and yield to pedestrians and give them the widest berth possible, even going off path if necessary. Sometimes on a long straight stretch of MUP or sidewalk or street, if I see pedestrians, especially dog-walkers or those with young kids, I will toot the horn from a distance to give them ample time to reel in their kith and kin.

Air horns are invaluable for riding in traffic. (My air horns also help me identify people with aggression issues carrying lead pipes.)

On all three of my bikes both the bell and the AirZound airhorn can be operated by a thumb or finger while both hands are on the brakes.

I am really turning into an old fart...