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Cycle Computer For Luddite

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Cycle Computer For Luddite

Old 01-17-20, 07:01 PM
  #26  
63rickert
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
I’ve seen people crash while counting.

-mr. bill
You mean someone besides me uses the technique? Even 50 years ago it was not common. I guess it's nice to know I am not alone.
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Old 01-17-20, 07:11 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
You mean someone besides me uses the technique? Even 50 years ago it was not common. I guess it's nice to know I am not alone.

I believe it's traditional for a person who needs to crash to count sheep.
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Old 01-17-20, 08:32 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
How many hours do you get out of your Bryton.
Good question! I've never actually run it the whole way down - I usually recharge it before a long ride. I've left it running in the neighborhood of 11 hours on some pokey gravel rides, and it was nowhere near close to needing recharged.

IME, fine for century and 200K type stuff.
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Old 01-19-20, 11:46 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Stem Captain has a series of one function Cycle Computers for Luddites.

Before you ride you decide if you need the clock function, the temperature function, or the compass function. The one function inserts are easy to move from bike to bike.

Mapping function is provided by a folding piece of paper in your back pocket, available separately.

-mr. bill
Now that is actually cool. I wear an analog quartz watch, so I'm covered there, but I'm diggin' that compass.

ETA: I'm diggin' that thermometer, too. I could pretend it's a speedometer to satisfy my inner motorcyclist.

ETA again: Arrrgh, my alloy bike has a steel fork and steerer. So, that compass is out.

Last edited by FiftySix; 01-19-20 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 01-19-20, 11:51 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
A real Luddite would walk or ride a horse.
Or ride a single speed Flying Pigeon?
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Old 01-19-20, 01:12 PM
  #31  
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I used a Lezyne Macro all of last year, and I was happy with it. The main reason I wen to a GPS device was that I wanted to manage my heart rate, and the lowest cost Cateye with HR got lousy reviews. I use a Wahoo Tickr Fit HRM and a Wahoo Blue SC speed/cadence sensor. The Macro and its replacement and the Macro Easy don't have ANT+, but I have no ANT+ sensors.
I looked at Bryton, Igpsport, and Wahoo Mini. I went for the Lezyne because I thought US support would be better than Taiwan-based support. (If I were on Taiwan, I'd have preferred Bryton.) Th Mini without a phone is an overpriced basic wireless computer. Dcrainmaker reviewed the Mini, if you're interested.

If I didn't want HR or directions from my bike 'puter, I'd go for a wired 'puter from Cateye, Sigma, or Planet Bike. I used a Cateye Solar for decades, and it still works.

If you go with something from Sigma, make very sure your 'puter is firmly in the mount.
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Old 01-19-20, 03:38 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by FiftySix View Post
Or ride a single speed Flying Pigeon?
Or just a really, really big pigeon.
A true Luddite would be against mass production. Flying Pigeon is the all-time champ at that.
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Old 01-19-20, 04:02 PM
  #33  
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Seriously? All this talk about GPS and phone pairing and heart rate monitoring when he needs nothing more than a basic cheapo (which is what he said he wanted).

About $50 bucks will get you a wireless Cateye Padrone. They last forever (with simple battery changes) and have nice big numbers for old eyes. I’ve been a Cateye consumer since the 90’s. They’re durable, accurate, and easy to mount. No, they’re not $15 throw aways, but had you bought a $40 wireless Vector like I did about a decade ago it would still be getting it done just like mine. I went to the Padrone for the larger text and fully expect it will last and perform as well as the others.


-Kedosto
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Old 01-19-20, 07:55 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
Seriously? All this talk about GPS and phone pairing and heart rate monitoring when he needs nothing more than a basic cheapo (which is what he said he wanted).

About $50 bucks will get you a wireless Cateye Padrone. They last forever (with simple battery changes) and have nice big numbers for old eyes. I’ve been a Cateye consumer since the 90’s. They’re durable, accurate, and easy to mount. No, they’re not $15 throw aways, but had you bought a $40 wireless Vector like I did about a decade ago it would still be getting it done just like mine. I went to the Padrone for the larger text and fully expect it will last and perform as well as the others.


-Kedosto
Newer wireless bike computers add several advantages over models like the CatEye Padrone, for the same money. Even if a cyclist doesn't think he needs GPS tracking, sensors for heart rate, speed, cadence, etc., now... fitness goals can change. Mine did.

Bluetooth and ANT+ sensors enable mounting on the rear wheel, so we can monitor while on an indoor trainer. Many old style wireless bike computers have limited range and require the magnet and sensor to be mounted on the front wheel/fork. There are Bluetooth/ANT+ induction type sensors that attach to the crank or hub with rubber bands -- no magnets needed. And ANT+ can share to more than one device, which is helpful for recording to multiple devices, or so a coach can monitor the rider's data if wanted.

For $25-$50, we can buy a basic GPS computer like the XOSS G+ I mentioned above. It does everything the CatEye Padrone does, and more... if the owner wants it. And it works with my existing ANT+ only, and Bluetooth/ANT+ sensors. It pairs quicky, easily and more reliably than my phones, which often take a minute or two to pair with sensors.

Add another $25-$30, and you can buy a Lezyne or Bryton for around $75-$80 that includes active GPS navigation aids -- breadcrumb trails, handy for folks who explore new routes on the road or off-road; even simple direction finding aids, like a graphic map or compass to replace the old ball-in-fluid compass (yup, I still have one) or, better still, my old orienteering compass and navigation aids I'd kept from the 1970s when I practiced orienteering in the hills of Camp Pendleton where I was stationed, and exploring the Cleveland National Forest alone, often after dark. That's amazing technology for about the same money as an orienteering compass and a couple of family radio service transceivers. Especially for someone like me, who has zero natural sense of direction, which is why I learned orienteering.

And those GPS bike computers have much longer runtime between charges than most cell phones. And with a good basic GPS computer to record my rides, the phone is less likely to crash and lose my Wahoo Fitness or Strava log when I switch to taking photos or videos, an occasional annoying problem with both my Android and iPhone.

Some of my friends have become so wary of riding in traffic they've switched to gravel and exploring rural off road routes, where Google maps may not represent current conditions and they need to reroute on the fly. So they've switched from simple bike computers to GPS devices.

That's a lot of capability in a device that costs the same as a CatEye Padrone, or only a little more for a lot more capability.
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Old 01-20-20, 08:36 AM
  #35  
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As a luddite, I am adverse to introducing higher tech components to my machines. Been using the Cateye Velo 8 bike computer for decades without problems. Currently have 2 of them on bikes, and they are well over 10 years of age. What brand and model bike computers are you using?
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Old 01-20-20, 12:32 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Newer wireless bike computers add several advantages over models like the CatEye Padrone, for the same money. Even if a cyclist doesn't think he needs GPS tracking, sensors for heart rate, speed, cadence, etc., now... fitness goals can change. Mine did.

Bluetooth and ANT+ sensors enable mounting on the rear wheel, so we can monitor while on an indoor trainer. Many old style wireless bike computers have limited range and require the magnet and sensor to be mounted on the front wheel/fork. There are Bluetooth/ANT+ induction type sensors that attach to the crank or hub with rubber bands -- no magnets needed. And ANT+ can share to more than one device, which is helpful for recording to multiple devices, or so a coach can monitor the rider's data if wanted.

For $25-$50, we can buy a basic GPS computer like the XOSS G+ I mentioned above. It does everything the CatEye Padrone does, and more... if the owner wants it. And it works with my existing ANT+ only, and Bluetooth/ANT+ sensors. It pairs quicky, easily and more reliably than my phones, which often take a minute or two to pair with sensors.

Add another $25-$30, and you can buy a Lezyne or Bryton for around $75-$80 that includes active GPS navigation aids -- breadcrumb trails, handy for folks who explore new routes on the road or off-road; even simple direction finding aids, like a graphic map or compass to replace the old ball-in-fluid compass (yup, I still have one) or, better still, my old orienteering compass and navigation aids I'd kept from the 1970s when I practiced orienteering in the hills of Camp Pendleton where I was stationed, and exploring the Cleveland National Forest alone, often after dark. That's amazing technology for about the same money as an orienteering compass and a couple of family radio service transceivers. Especially for someone like me, who has zero natural sense of direction, which is why I learned orienteering.

And those GPS bike computers have much longer runtime between charges than most cell phones. And with a good basic GPS computer to record my rides, the phone is less likely to crash and lose my Wahoo Fitness or Strava log when I switch to taking photos or videos, an occasional annoying problem with both my Android and iPhone.

Some of my friends have become so wary of riding in traffic they've switched to gravel and exploring rural off road routes, where Google maps may not represent current conditions and they need to reroute on the fly. So they've switched from simple bike computers to GPS devices.

That's a lot of capability in a device that costs the same as a CatEye Padrone, or only a little more for a lot more capability.
I appreciate your points (well stated) and see nothing wrong with your opinion. However, there are times when all one wants is a simple pencil and paper and not a scientific calculator. I came into this thread under the impression that OP is basically looking for a nice pencil but instead has received several suggestions at amazing scientific calculators. Nothing wrong with the calculators, but...


-Kedosto
*Speedometer, odometer, and nothing more*
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Old 01-20-20, 01:55 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
-Kedosto
*Speedometer, odometer, and nothing more*
The OP’s choice has something more.

For you, suggest my first bike computer with speedometer, odometer and nothing more:


Schwinn!

-mr. bill
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Old 01-20-20, 05:52 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Or just a really, really big pigeon.
A true Luddite would be against mass production. Flying Pigeon is the all-time champ at that.
You need to talk to a Luddite.

Flying Pigeon has been produced in great volume but is more handmade than you can imagine. And when it is shipped it is hardly a bicycle. Will require major and extended work by a skilled mechanic to make it into something rideable. And after all that it is neither good nor quite a Ned Ludd bike. Started life as a Raleigh Shanghai model DL-1 but there have been hundreds of running changes, all of them downgrades.

My commuter is also a Raleigh DL-1, in this case made by Eastman in Delhi. Not New Delhi, it is made in the old quarter of town as is fitting. It is quite close to the 1913 blueprint for the military version of the DL-1. As one piece lugs from Nottingham are no longer available they make lugs from scratch. Pieces of scrap sheet metal are hammered into shape around mandrels and then welded together. All hammer marks remain plainly visible. That is Luddism.

I wish I knew how many clones of the Raleigh DL-1 have been produced. As a guess some hundreds of millions. It works, why fix it?

Sadly the Eastman is no longer imported to these shores. Need for a four hour assembly makes the FOB price of roughly $20 not very tempting. A much higher quality maker by name of KW might respond to individual enquiry. My Eastman currently wears KW pedals which are astonishing copies of 1930s Raleigh pedals. Yes, I've worn out pedals on that bike. It's been ridden perhaps 200 days a year for 15 years and is going strong. Every ride is a joy. Living the dream of the bike that has defined 'bike' to billions for over a century.
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Old 01-22-20, 08:24 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by 63rickert View Post
You need to talk to a Luddite.

Flying Pigeon has been produced in great volume but is more handmade than you can imagine. And when it is shipped it is hardly a bicycle. Will require major and extended work by a skilled mechanic to make it into something rideable. And after all that it is neither good nor quite a Ned Ludd bike. Started life as a Raleigh Shanghai model DL-1 but there have been hundreds of running changes, all of them downgrades.

My commuter is also a Raleigh DL-1, in this case made by Eastman in Delhi. Not New Delhi, it is made in the old quarter of town as is fitting. It is quite close to the 1913 blueprint for the military version of the DL-1. As one piece lugs from Nottingham are no longer available they make lugs from scratch. Pieces of scrap sheet metal are hammered into shape around mandrels and then welded together. All hammer marks remain plainly visible. That is Luddism.

I wish I knew how many clones of the Raleigh DL-1 have been produced. As a guess some hundreds of millions. It works, why fix it?

Sadly the Eastman is no longer imported to these shores. Need for a four hour assembly makes the FOB price of roughly $20 not very tempting. A much higher quality maker by name of KW might respond to individual enquiry. My Eastman currently wears KW pedals which are astonishing copies of 1930s Raleigh pedals. Yes, I've worn out pedals on that bike. It's been ridden perhaps 200 days a year for 15 years and is going strong. Every ride is a joy. Living the dream of the bike that has defined 'bike' to billions for over a century.

Good info, and a fun post. Since the real Luddites were probably dead well before the introduction of the safety bicycle, we'll just note that discerning their attitude towards any particular bike would be completely speculative. Keep in mind that the bicycle was quite a disruptive technology when it was introduced, and Luddism was all about nipping those in the bud.
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Old 01-22-20, 09:44 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
I recently bought a Wahoo Mini (couldn't pass it up at $50), and have added HR and cadence sensors. So far, it's been great. I use it for both rides and trainer sessions. Setup is super easy through the Wahoo app, and the amount of customization is remarkable for such a small and low-budget unit. I have mine set up to upload ride data to Strava at the end of the ride, and email a "live track" link to my wife at the start of the ride, both of which are also super easy to do through the Wahoo app. It's missing a couple of features of the bigger units (power meter and turn-by-turn directions being the biggest ones), but that's not a significant concern for me. I found a lot of excellent in-depth information about it by searching "wahoo mini review".
I have been looking at the Wahoo Mini for a while as a replacement for my wife's RFLKT when it dies. Now, I'm not so sure. Not only does Amazon have them on sale for $50.00 but so does Wahoo and they are out of stock. This tells me that Wahoo is getting ready to dump the Mini and come out with something in it's place or just rely on their Elemnt GPS line of computers moving forward. Actually, I would like to see Wahoo come up with a unit that works like the RFLKT but doesn't have all the disconnection issues that the RFLKT had.
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Old 01-22-20, 10:38 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
I have been looking at the Wahoo Mini for a while as a replacement for my wife's RFLKT when it dies. Now, I'm not so sure. Not only does Amazon have them on sale for $50.00 but so does Wahoo and they are out of stock. This tells me that Wahoo is getting ready to dump the Mini and come out with something in it's place or just rely on their Elemnt GPS line of computers moving forward. Actually, I would like to see Wahoo come up with a unit that works like the RFLKT but doesn't have all the disconnection issues that the RFLKT had.
Pretty much all of the retail outlets for the Mini have it at $50. It's certainly possible that they are discontinuing the item, and dumping the inventory at a discount. That said, for a fairly simple device with some smart capabilities (when paired with your phone), it was an easy call for me, and I'm pretty happy with it for the moment. For a next step above the Mini, I would probably go with the Bolt, but it's more of an investment than I want to make right now.
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Old 01-22-20, 11:04 AM
  #42  
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For $50.00, you get the Elemnt Mini + Wahoo Speed Sensor. The speed sensor alone costs $40.00. You can configure it to pair with the speed sensor without ever pairing it to a phone. You'll get time, speed, distance and ride duration in this completely stand alone mode.

Caveat - If you never ever pair it to a phone app you will get no firmware updates.

-mr. bill
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Old 01-22-20, 04:23 PM
  #43  
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Bike computer for a luddite: Attach a pulley of known circumference to your front wheel (like a second rim), attach a ribbon of known length to the pulley, and every time the whole ribbon is wrapped around the pulley, stop and put a tic on a piece of paper. When you get home, count all the clicks and calculate distance ridden!
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Old 01-22-20, 09:43 PM
  #44  
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I love my Specialized Speedzone; basic functions in large friendly letters, and runs around $40 - $50. There's a Speedzone II out, looks to be similar to mine, but with a cooler mount. Got mine at my LBS.
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Old 01-24-20, 01:14 AM
  #45  
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Here is an excellent "DUMB" wireless bicycle computer.
INBIKE IC321
there is no gps, there is no ability to download data from it......it is just a superb wireless SPEEDOMETER, ODOMETER, TRIP ODOMETER, CLOCK, some stopwatch things....
LARGE DISPLAY for SPEEDO with CLOCK at top LEFT and ODOMETER at top RIGHT
(typically sells for between about $9 FREE SHIPPING (china & hong kong based ebay sellers) to about $13.50 FREE SHIPPING (USA based ebay sellers)
obviously, there are plenty of sellers that list and sell this INBIKE IC321 wireless SPEEDO for much more than $13.50 free shipping but there is NO REASON to pay more. There are no differences in the products whether from China based or USA based sellers. There were several years ago when this INBIKE IC321 first appeared, and the ONLY difference was that some China based sellers at that time did not supply the two CR2032 round batteries. The China based sellers have been providing the two CR2032 batteries recently. I have bought many of these IC321 SPEEDOMETERS and I have installed more them on more than thirty old vintage bicycles and also on about seven modern bicycles. This INBIKE IC321 really requires a different way to mount the SENSOR on vintage bicycles with BLADE forks (such as old ancient Schwinns and other brands...) because these are designed to have the SENSOR zip tied and 3m double sided mounting taped to a fat round "broomstick" style front fork. I fabricated my own mounts which allow the SENSOR to hang OFF FROM BENEATH THE LEFT FRONT AXLE NUT. My neighbor came up with a simple version which does the same but is simple to make with zero equipment etc.... His method Uses a Large Size ACCO BINDER Clamp (an ordinary binder clamp, it doesn't have to be any particular brand..) The BINDER CLAMP size that you need matches the size of the Sensor. JB WELD the BINDER CLAMP to the Sensor after placing a piece of sewing thread of approx 20 inches long through the holes provided for zipties, such that you have about 9 inches sticking out at each side. Liberally coat the area where you will CLAMP the Binder CLIP but not so much that the JB WELD or EPOXY runs into the battery cover area. AFFIX THE CLAMP AND THEN USE THE LOOSE THREAD TO WHIP(wind around) the chromed ARM..............remember how old golf clubs were......driver, 3-wood etc when Persimmon and Laminated wood heads were the norm before 1985... same idea...... You are ONLY USING one chrome ARM of the binder clip as the HANGER that goes beneath the LEFT FRONT AXLE NUT...............you remove the other chrome Arm from the BINDER CLIP.............................The reason that you whip (wind) the thread around it is to SECURE the binder clip's chrome arm such that it does not move or swivel.......................Essentially you use Ordinary Sewing Thread saturated in Epoxy or JB WELD to accomplish that. AFTER THIS EPOXY HAS DRIED AND FULLY SET, You'll likely need to slightly BEND this chrome arm as needed to get the SENSOR in the right proximaty of the magnet. (this is the simplest method of mounting the INBIKE IC321 on ancient vintage bicycles..................depending on the spokes/spoke configuration that the ancient bike or bikes might have......you might have to file or slightly modify the plastic mount of the magnet in order to get the magnet mounted properly.........this varies according to spoke shape (round, etc) and spoke thickness, etc..............Many times in such cases, it is much easier to just purchase another $1 replacement magnet that has a different style mount........... THESE MODIFICATIONS AND ALTERATIONS ARE ONLY APPLICABLE IN FITTING THIS INBIKE IC321 to Ancient Bicycles such as Schwinn and anything from the 1970's and earlier! This INBIKE IC321 is fantastic on such ancient bicycles if you make such modifications/adaptation as I mentioned above. Obviously if you've got a MODERN bicycle/mountain bike with a "broomstick" shape front fork, you won't need to do anything at all, as the INBIKE IC321 will mount perfectly as it is designed to do.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-...h=item522c41c9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACCO-Binder...oAAOSwlHJeKIix

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-M...pid=502226912&

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Com...ash=item591bf2


These INBIKE IC321 wireless speedometers are great on any gaspipe, electroforged Schwinn, or any ancient heavyweight single speed cruiser, as well as most anything expensive or not, from the LBS or Wallyworld or Tar-jay, or even that web seller that has new Flying Pigeon bicycles for about $75 Free Shipping,
This INBIKE IC 321 wireless speedometers are excellent. I was probably among the first people in the USA to be a user of the INBIKE IC 321.
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Old 01-24-20, 02:08 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Eric F View Post
Pretty much all of the retail outlets for the Mini have it at $50. It's certainly possible that they are discontinuing the item, and dumping the inventory at a discount. That said, for a fairly simple device with some smart capabilities (when paired with your phone), it was an easy call for me, and I'm pretty happy with it for the moment. For a next step above the Mini, I would probably go with the Bolt, but it's more of an investment than I want to make right now.
Don't get me wrong! $50.00 is an excellent price for the Mini, especially when the speed sensor that comes with it is almost that much. My only concern is that if I purchase one for the wife and there is a problem with it, Wahoo is out of stock and getting a replacement for it will pretty much be a no go; especially if it's being discontinued. I had that happen with a Sigma computer I purchased, years ago. It was still in the warranty period but became discontinued a month or so after I bought it. The cadence function quit working and I was stuck with a computer without cadence. I gave that one to the wife since she didn't use cadence at the time.
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Old 01-24-20, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post
Don't get me wrong! $50.00 is an excellent price for the Mini, especially when the speed sensor that comes with it is almost that much. My only concern is that if I purchase one for the wife and there is a problem with it, Wahoo is out of stock and getting a replacement for it will pretty much be a no go; especially if it's being discontinued. I had that happen with a Sigma computer I purchased, years ago. It was still in the warranty period but became discontinued a month or so after I bought it. The cadence function quit working and I was stuck with a computer without cadence. I gave that one to the wife since she didn't use cadence at the time.
That's a fair concern. The Mini being discontinued is only a guess. It could also be a push to get more people on their platform.
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Old 01-24-20, 04:05 PM
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Paul Barnard
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
Seriously? All this talk about GPS and phone pairing and heart rate monitoring when he needs nothing more than a basic cheapo (which is what he said he wanted).

About $50 bucks will get you a wireless Cateye Padrone. They last forever (with simple battery changes) and have nice big numbers for old eyes. I’ve been a Cateye consumer since the 90’s. They’re durable, accurate, and easy to mount. No, they’re not $15 throw aways, but had you bought a $40 wireless Vector like I did about a decade ago it would still be getting it done just like mine. I went to the Padrone for the larger text and fully expect it will last and perform as well as the others.


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I bought a Padrone that never worked for a minute.
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Old 01-24-20, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kedosto View Post
I appreciate your points (well stated) and see nothing wrong with your opinion. However, there are times when all one wants is a simple pencil and paper and not a scientific calculator. I came into this thread under the impression that OP is basically looking for a nice pencil but instead has received several suggestions at amazing scientific calculators. Nothing wrong with the calculators, but...


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You read me right. I have had my best luck with Cateye products. Unfortunately my last one with the Padrone was my last one.
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Old 01-24-20, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Good info, and a fun post. Since the real Luddites were probably dead well before the introduction of the safety bicycle, we'll just note that discerning their attitude towards any particular bike would be completely speculative. Keep in mind that the bicycle was quite a disruptive technology when it was introduced, and Luddism was all about nipping those in the bud.
The technical novelties that came with introduction of the bicycle were ball bearings and pneumatic tires.

Ball bearings had existed, they were simply too expensive to use, and designers figured how to get the job done without them. Bikes created the demand for ball bearings. Bikes were the killer app that made ball bearings a thing. After a lot of false starts and dead ends the technique for making balls in bulk was the tech for making marbles. Toy marbles. Just start with small pieces of steel instead of small rocks. It was seventeenth/eighteenth century tech.

Pneumatic tires were completely novel. I want to keep them. All that's needed to make a tire is needle and thread. Oh, and rubber. Which means international trade is needed. Global trade has been a constant since the Bronze Age. It might be nice to try a tire with a casing made from Dacca muslin. From what is known of that fabric it would seem ideal. But the stuff only exists in museums. No one has known how to weave it for about 200 years. Preserving just that sort of knowledge is what Luddism was about.

All the other details that go into current bicycles are just that, details. A derailleur is a series of levers and pivots. Any Luddite mechanic can understand any derailleur. Or at least any mechanical derailleur. Electric derailleurs we won't even think about.

Luddism was always about valuing persons over commerce. Not hostile to nice things. Or more specifically not hostile to nice things made by humans.
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