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Change to long cage derailleur - recommendation?

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Change to long cage derailleur - recommendation?

Old 01-17-20, 02:05 PM
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chadtrent
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Change to long cage derailleur - recommendation?

I have a Tricross Sport (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tr...t-disc/p/49858). It has 9 speed Sora on it. The cassette is a 11-30. I have been using it for gravel and there are times I have found myself wanting a lower gear. I'd like to go with a 11-34 or even a 11-40 but the derailleur says it has a maximum of 11-32. I don't mind changing out the derailleur for something different so long as it will work with my shifters. Any recommendations?
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Old 01-17-20, 02:16 PM
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You may be able to make it work with the current RD. Otherwise any Shimano compatible 9 speed one, "mountain" will work. For example, Shimano Deore M591. I run Sora 3500 shifters with the M591 rear derailleur. Some people say they had a good experience with Microshift.
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Old 01-17-20, 02:20 PM
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Really? I thought the cable pull was different. Is that only on 10 and 11 speed? If that's the case that will make things a lot simpler for me.
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Old 01-17-20, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
I have a Tricross Sport (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tr...t-disc/p/49858). It has 9 speed Sora on it. The cassette is a 11-30. I have been using it for gravel and there are times I have found myself wanting a lower gear. I'd like to go with a 11-34 or even a 11-40 but the derailleur says it has a maximum of 11-32. I don't mind changing out the derailleur for something different so long as it will work with my shifters. Any recommendations?
You can go to an older deore 8 or 9 speed derailleur for the 34. You'll need a wolf's tooth to get up to the 40.
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Old 01-17-20, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
You can go to an older deore 8 or 9 speed derailleur for the 34. You'll need a wolf's tooth to get up to the 40.
I assume you are talking about the roadlink? I see them listed for 10 and 11 speed. Do they work with 9 speed too?
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Old 01-17-20, 03:10 PM
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I am using a Deore rear derailleur with an 11/32 cassette and Tiagra 4400 9 speed brifters and front derailleur and crankset, 48/34. Shifts great.
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Old 01-17-20, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
I have a Tricross Sport (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/tr...t-disc/p/49858). It has 9 speed Sora on it. The cassette is a 11-30. I have been using it for gravel and there are times I have found myself wanting a lower gear. I'd like to go with a 11-34 or even a 11-40 but the derailleur says it has a maximum of 11-32. I don't mind changing out the derailleur for something different so long as it will work with my shifters. Any recommendations?
If it is the Sora RD-3500 mid cage (looks to be in the photo), a 11-34 cassette should work with just some a B screw adjustment. It would probably work with a 36T as well, but I haven't tried.
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Old 01-17-20, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
Really? I thought the cable pull was different. Is that only on 10 and 11 speed? If that's the case that will make things a lot simpler for me.
It was the same (1.7 IIRC) between road and MTB up to 9 speed, except for some old Dura-Ace. When Shimano went 10 speed they had to make it smaller for MTB (a.k.a. Dyna-Sys), and they kept the old ratio for the road 10 speed. Then they changed it for the road 11 speed, and that pull ratio was ported back to the road 10 speed ("new" Tiagra 4700); apparently the old pull ratio was too high for 10 speed, especially with the hidden cables.

So anything Shimano (road/MTB) up to 9 speed has the same pull ratio, as well as the "old" road 10s (up to and including Tiagra 4600 series or 105 5700 series -- but those will not have SGS cage, only GS). I also ran 105 5701 RD with the mentioned 3500 Sora shifter, and it worked great.

Last edited by csport; 01-21-20 at 09:04 PM. Reason: correct 5703 -> 5701
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Old 01-17-20, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
If it is the Sora RD-3500 mid cage (looks to be in the photo), a 11-34 cassette should work with just some a B screw adjustment. It would probably work with a 36T as well, but I haven't tried.

I used a 12-36 with the long cage 3500 RD with the B screw all the way in, it was right at the limit though. I swapped to an XT (Edit) M772 SGS, which with hours of adjusting, a new cable and a new hanger works well but is only slightly better. From all the feedback I received here the Deore M591 would have been the better choice.

Last edited by Bingod; 01-17-20 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 01-17-20, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Bingod View Post
I used a 12-36 with the long cage 3500 RD with the B screw all the way in, it was right at the limit though. I swapped to an XT M592 SGS, which with hours of adjusting, a new cable and a new hanger works well but is only slightly better. From all the feedback I received here the Deore M591 would have been the better choice.
I think you experienced the same issue I had with Deore M591, M592 and M772 and Sora 3500 shifters. The dérailleur would shift up, but would skip a cog shifting down. I spent a lot of time working on this, including having a shop try and another home mechanic, but we couldn't get it perfect. I gave up and used the mid cage Sora 3500. Ironically, a 90's Deore LX M560 also worked nicely with Sora 3500 shifters.

Here is my limit screw with a Sora 3500 and 34T

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Old 01-17-20, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
I think you experienced the same issue I had with Deore M591, M592 and M772 and Sora 3500 shifters. The dérailleur would shift up, but would skip a cog shifting down. I spent a lot of time working on this, including having a shop try and another home mechanic, but we couldn't get it perfect. I gave up and used the mid cage Sora 3500. Ironically, a 90's Deore LX M560 also worked nicely with Sora 3500 shifters.
Doh! Im an idiot. I mean i swapped to an M772 RD not an M592 - but yes - your adjustment woes were the same as mine - very very finicky - finally made it work but it could still be better and not worth the hassle.If I hadn't cut the housing for the shadow I would have swapped back. I'll edit my previous post. Glad you found an easy solution. Im not experienced with many different group sets, but that old Sora stuff really works well for gravel bikes
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Old 01-17-20, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chadtrent View Post
I assume you are talking about the roadlink? I see them listed for 10 and 11 speed. Do they work with 9 speed too?
I don’t know if they work for a 42 tooth cog but the RoadLink is just an extender and works for any gear range. I have one on my Cannondale T1 to get the 9 speed XTR rear derailer to work with an 11-36 9 speed cassette. It works just fine. You can find 11-42 9 speed cassettes but I doubt that your Sora would work with one even with a RoadLink. I’m dubious that it would work with the 11-36.

One caveat: I had to do surgery on my derailer hanger to make the RoadLink work. The Cannondale hanger just didn’t mate to the link. It was easy to file and took about 15 minutes to modify. Additionally, I had to do it twice because I attempted to bend it a little. Don’t do that. It breaks much more readily than a regular hanger.
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Old 01-17-20, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
I think you experienced the same issue I had with Deore M591, M592 and M772 and Sora 3500 shifters. The dérailleur would shift up, but would skip a cog shifting down. I spent a lot of time working on this, including having a shop try and another home mechanic, but we couldn't get it perfect. I gave up and used the mid cage Sora 3500. Ironically, a 90's Deore LX M560 also worked nicely with Sora 3500 shifters.

Here is my limit screw with a Sora 3500 and 34T

Is that something specific with the Sora 3500? I have a 592 on a 10 speed Tiagra and swap wheel sets between with a 12-36, 11-34, and an 11-32 with very little adjustment between them. Been crisp and clear since day 1. Not that I cross chain often but it will do 50/36 and the 34/11 fine too. I've used a 591 on a wide variety of 7-9 speed on 32, and 34 cassettes with great results.

Last edited by u235; 01-17-20 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 01-17-20, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by u235 View Post
Is that something specific with the Sora 3500? I have a 592 on a 10 speed Tiagra and swap wheel sets between with a 12-36, 11-34, and an 11-32. Been crisp and clear since day 1. I also have a 591 on an 8 speed on a 12-34 with a shimano pull ratio SRAM grip shift that is great..
I have no idea, on paper it should work. It mostly works, rode it that way for awhile and just shifted back up if I wanted the skipped cog. In the end, I found it easier to just avoid that combination of shifter / dérailleur.

Last edited by katsup; 01-17-20 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 01-21-20, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
I think you experienced the same issue I had with Deore M591, M592 and M772 and Sora 3500 shifters. The dérailleur would shift up, but would skip a cog shifting down. I spent a lot of time working on this, including having a shop try and another home mechanic, but we couldn't get it perfect. I gave up and used the mid cage Sora 3500. Ironically, a 90's Deore LX M560 also worked nicely with Sora 3500 shifters.
Originally Posted by Bingod View Post
Doh! Im an idiot. I mean i swapped to an M772 RD not an M592 - but yes - your adjustment woes were the same as mine - very very finicky - finally made it work but it could still be better and not worth the hassle.If I hadn't cut the housing for the shadow I would have swapped back. I'll edit my previous post. Glad you found an easy solution. Im not experienced with many different group sets, but that old Sora stuff really works well for gravel bikes
Originally Posted by katsup View Post
I have no idea, on paper it should work. It mostly works, rode it that way for awhile and just shifted back up if I wanted the skipped cog. In the end, I found it easier to just avoid that combination of shifter / dérailleur.
I think I was the first to suggest M591 with 3500 brifters. I run it myself, and I have a similar problem with sluggish downshifting, but it only appears when the chain is not lubricated for a long time. FWIW, I run 11-30 HG50 cassette and 48/36/22 M590 Deore crankset. I did not invest much effort into adjusting. Shifting was probably better with a 10s 5701 medium cage RD, but I attributed it to its guide pulley being closer to the cogs.

I have not tried Microshift, but many people respected here said good words about it: Need new derailleur for 1991 Schwinn High Plains Also, I remember nfmisso giving very positive feedback on it.

Maybe we should try it. Marvo M46 https://www.microshift.com/en/product/rd-m46l-rd-m46s/ is <25$, M26 https://www.microshift.com/en/product/rd-m26l-rd-m26s/ (super basic model) is <15$.

Having said that, the OP has 50/34 (16t difference) crankset, adding some 11-34 cassette (23t difference) gives a total of 39t chain wrap. That should be within the range of the medium cage RD.
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Old 01-21-20, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by csport View Post
I think I was the first to suggest M591 with 3500 brifters. I run it myself, and I have a similar problem with sluggish downshifting, but it only appears when the chain is not lubricated for a long time.
For the record, lubing the chain was one of the first things I did. This was done a few times of the course of working on it, but could still not get it to shift as nice as it does with the 3500 derailleur.

I have no issues with 3500 Sora shifters and the 3500 derailleur or the Deore LX M560 (7 Speed) derailleur. The cage on these two derailleurs are about the same so just use the 3500 derailleur if possible. The derailleurs I tried were just the ones I had available, or could borrow, to try.

Last edited by katsup; 01-21-20 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 02-11-20, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by katsup View Post
For the record, lubing the chain was one of the first things I did. This was done a few times of the course of working on it, but could still not get it to shift as nice as it does with the 3500 derailleur.

I have no issues with 3500 Sora shifters and the 3500 derailleur or the Deore LX M560 (7 Speed) derailleur. The cage on these two derailleurs are about the same so just use the 3500 derailleur if possible. The derailleurs I tried were just the ones I had available, or could borrow, to try.
OK, I purchased a Microshift M46, it is almost 1/2 the price of Shimano M591. Installed it and took it for a loop in the park. Shifts up and down with no sluggishness, easier to setup than Deore. The only shift that is a bit sluggish is upshift from the second largest to the largest rear cog when the chain is in the big chainring -- probably I need to slightly loosen the limit screw.
Other components: Deore M590 crankset, 48/36/22; Shimano HG50 11-30 9s cassette; Campagnolo Record C9 chain with SRAM Gold Powerlink.

Off topic: katsup , I have just noticed that you have a Fog Cutter brother of my Double Cross.
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Old 02-13-20, 10:30 AM
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Should work if Sora is medium cage

I put a Shimano Alivio CS-HG400 9-Speed 11-36t Cassette on my bike with Tiagra road shifters, and a Shimano Sora RD-R3000-GS 9-Speed Medium Cage Rear Derailleur to replace original short cage 105. It shifts onto the 36t just fine with bike on work-stand. Can't wait to try it out when Spring arrives! B- screw is nowhere near maxed out, so it might even work on a 40t.
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Old 02-13-20, 02:49 PM
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Ever since I bought a used Jamis Aurora Elite (3x9 50/39/30 crank and 11-34 cassette) touring bike last spring I've been struggling to get shifting right. New chain, cassette, RD, crankset, BB, cables/housing - still doesn't shift perfect in the back. Tried an M771, M772, and M592 RD even, the M592 has been the best but I still can't shift into cassette 8, I just skip past it into 9 (largest).
Might have to try that microshift RD, don't have much to lose!
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Old 02-13-20, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 View Post
Ever since I bought a used Jamis Aurora Elite (3x9 50/39/30 crank and 11-34 cassette) touring bike last spring I've been struggling to get shifting right. New chain, cassette, RD, crankset, BB, cables/housing - still doesn't shift perfect in the back. Tried an M771, M772, and M592 RD even, the M592 has been the best but I still can't shift into cassette 8, I just skip past it into 9 (largest).
Might have to try that microshift RD, don't have much to lose!
Check to see if your hanger is aligned properly. The cog and both jockey wheels should be in a straight line. The other thing to check is to see if the cable is too tight. Shift to the smallest cog, then pluck the cable (the inner part) that is exposed below the chainstays. It should just have a little bit of twang but not too much. Taut but not guitar string tight.
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Old 02-13-20, 09:58 PM
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I have a medium cage tiagra on my bike. Shimano says it will max out at 34. I wanted lower gearing di I got a 11-36 cassette and it works fine. Shimano from my understanding is usually pretty conservative with there specs. I would get the cassette and try it out.
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Old 02-14-20, 07:32 AM
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A 36t large cog will be a very noticeable reduction in gearing over the 30t you have now. I would get a cassette with a 36t and see if you can make it work with what you have. Possibly a longer b-screw will work.

If it does not work out, there are plenty of 9 speed MTB RDs out there that will have no issues with a 36t cog.

For me, an 11-40 9sp cassette would have larger gaps than I would like for road/gravel use. For MTB it would be fantastic (and I always wanted such a thing back when I was running 9 speed on my mtbs).
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