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Upgrading old Garmin 800? & general Garmin questions.

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Upgrading old Garmin 800? & general Garmin questions.

Old 01-18-20, 06:59 AM
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dualresponse
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Upgrading old Garmin 800? & general Garmin questions.

Hello,
I've got an older garmin 800 which my wife bought for me in 2011? 2012? Over the years, I've replaced the battery. Back in the day, I even bought (and subsequently lost) a micro SD card with maps on them so I could see local topography.

Recently, (and I think when I replaced the battery), I noticed the touch screen only scrolls in one direction. There seems to be a short in the connecting wire bundle, which, if held just right when disassembled, will let the screen work.

Sooooo....
I've got three choices- buy a new screen for my older garmin 800 for about $30, buy a new "used" garmin 800 for around $100 on fleabay, or buy a new device for $500-600.

So, what should I do? What new features do the newer garmins have that mine does not?
Would I be able to just get another old 800 and download maps for free now? It seems like the maps are now free non proprietary downloads which would even work with my 800 assuming I put a blank card in it.
What about power meter functions with the newer pedals?
Are there advantages to going newer?

Ps- I'm not into "connectivity" or seeing info on what rides are "trending", which seems to be a feature on the newer 1000 series. I will not be blue toothing the Garmin into my phone either.

I have been into TWO bike shops that don't know enough about the product to answer this question. A third shop stated I could download Garmin updates onto mine to get the latest/greatest.


Advice/ thoughts appreciated.

Last edited by dualresponse; 01-18-20 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 01-18-20, 07:53 AM
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You should have posted this in the electronics subforum (ask the admins to move it).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 800 is still a useful unit. (Even the 705 is useful but the 800 and after are significant improvements.)

You can get free maps for the Garmins (the maps work on any of the units) and the maps are very good. It's easy to do (especially, after doing it once).

There's some risk that spending $30 might not fix things. It still isn't that much of a risk if you spend $30 and then have to buy another unit Even spending $100 wouldn't really be a mistake (If you like how the 800 works).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The navigation features aren't hugely better on the newer units.

The route recalculation on the 800 just abandoned your course and calculated different route to the end point (which isn't generally useful). The new units calculate a route back to the course. So, that's something that works better.

The larger screen on the 1030 is nice but also things are smaller on it (so, there's a trade-off). The small screen on the 830 might not really be much better than the screen on the 800 for navigation. Yes, the resolution is higher but that means elements are smaller.

The CPU's in the newer units are much faster (so, you'll get faster screen updates).

I don't use a power meter but I strongly suspect a newer unit would handle newer power meters better.

I was meh about getting texts on the 1030 but, after using it, I find it useful.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I used an 800 extensively for navigation (I really liked it). It kind of broke and I got a 1030. I like it pretty well.

Part of the reason I did that was to see what the newer units can do (I'm a GPS expert of-sorts for my club) and I also wanted to try writing apps for the newer units. I like to help people to keep using older tech that still works (and the 800, definitely, still works).

Last edited by njkayaker; 01-18-20 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 01-18-20, 08:11 AM
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^ WOW! Thanks for the detailed reply. This is all kind of what I was figuring. It's nice to have it confirmed.

One final question- Is there any difference in battery life betweeen these units, or better batteries? I'm planning a 200 mile ride this summer, so at least two ten hour days, more like a 12-13 hr day on day one. I'm assuming I could charge it overnight between days. I can't remember how long one continuous charge can go for on these units.


Yeah, I'm a little concerned about the $30 fix. If the short is in the pin receiver in the unit, then the new screen wouldn't fix it, but like you said, for $30, no big deal.
Thanks again!
Ron
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Old 01-18-20, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
^ WOW! Thanks for the detailed reply. This is all kind of what I was figuring. It's nice to have it confirmed.

One final question- Is there any difference in battery life betweeen these units, or better batteries? I'm planning a 200 mile ride this summer, so at least two ten hour days, more like a 12-13 hr day on day one. I'm assuming I could charge it overnight between days. I can't remember how long one continuous charge can go for on these units.


Yeah, I'm a little concerned about the $30 fix. If the short is in the pin receiver in the unit, then the new screen wouldn't fix it, but like you said, for $30, no big deal.
Thanks again!
Ron
200 miles is pushing it it for any unit. I was doing rides where the the "days" where 250 miles.

I carry a 3200 mAh battery charger for long rides (it's very cheap insurance). Charge it when you don't need to (so you don't have to charge it in the rain).

The 1030 seems to have very good battery life (better than the 1000).

I tried replacing the backs on some 800. As it turns-out, the backs are not all the same (some 800 use a back that works with the 810).

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Old 01-18-20, 10:43 AM
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My battery experience with a year and half old 1030 is still at 5-7 percent per hour, so 15 to 20 hrs, of use time. If I were doing 2 back to back 10 hr days I’d charge it at night off a stick battery. It’ll run off one of those as well.

I like my 1030, but also am impressed with the Garmin Edge Explore. Runs about $250 but has significantly fewer features that a 1030, but mostly in the fitness areas, which it seems like you might not care about. It navigates as well as a 1030 and is slightly smaller.
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Old 01-18-20, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I like my 1030, but also am impressed with the Garmin Edge Explore. Runs about $250 but has significantly fewer features that a 1030, but mostly in the fitness areas, which it seems like you might not care about. It navigates as well as a 1030 and is slightly smaller.
The Explore is a good deal. The $250 doesn't include a mount (I believe) and the IQ level is 2.4. If you are interested in using IQ apps, 3 is much better.

I think the 1030 was being sold $450. If you are patient, you don't have to spend $600.

I suspect the performance units might get more attention with respect to fixing bugs.
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Old 01-18-20, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
The Explore is a good deal. The $250 doesn't include a mount (I believe) and the IQ level is 2.4. If you are interested in using IQ apps, 3 is much better.

I think the 1030 was being sold $450. If you are patient, you don't have to spend $600.

I suspect the performance units might get more attention with respect to fixing bugs.
Garmin says it comes with a standard mount, out front model is what my buddy has . Cheap enough to find on Amazon if you need another.
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Old 01-18-20, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Garmin says it comes with a standard mount, out front model is what my buddy has . Cheap enough to find on Amazon if you need another.
Yes, it comes with the "standard" mount (all the units come with those). That's the one with the rubber o-rings (that mount with bands is about $8).

The 1030 comes with an "out front" mount (which Garmin sells for $40).
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Old 01-18-20, 12:38 PM
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Thanks again for the replies.

Fortunately, I've got all the mounts, and the hr strap, so all I'd need is the base unit.

I've long lost the cadence sensor. Never really used it.

I've got powermeters on my road bikes, and this is for my gravel bike/ and to perhaps complement the road powermeter data, so no biggie if it isn't compatible with powermeter data. I'd want only HR, Temp, Altitude, stop watch, distance, Speed, rough calorie estimator, and for the ride- maps. Pretty basic stuff. as long as I can upload the info after the ride into a computer, I'm good. No blue tooth needed. There will be no strava segments.


Oh yeah- and I'm getting older, so a BIG DISPLAY that I can custom set large number sizes on so I don't need reading glasses to see it. The Garmin edge/explore might just be all that I need. I'm assuming it has the upgrade to get me "back" on course should I get "off" course... (not that that would EVER happen to me with my incredible directional instincts. )

I am also assuming I can set up custom displays, like on the garmin 800 to display either a few numbers really big, or a whole bunch of numbers in smaller sizes.

Last edited by dualresponse; 01-18-20 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-18-20, 12:55 PM
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We have had our 800 since 2011 and it has been voir many multi month tours. It has served us well. But last year I noticed charger port was getting wonky. I ordered one of those replacement fonts but there are 2 different ones as I found out. And the internals were not quite the same and I couldn't make it work. So I found a place in Arizona? and the guy specialized in GPS and even talked about my problem on his site. Sent it to him for a new back and battery. Works great!! Sorry I can't remember his name.
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Old 01-18-20, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
We have had our 800 since 2011 and it has been voir many multi month tours. It has served us well. But last year I noticed charger port was getting wonky. I ordered one of those replacement fonts but there are 2 different ones as I found out. And the internals were not quite the same and I couldn't make it work. So I found a place in Arizona? and the guy specialized in GPS and even talked about my problem on his site. Sent it to him for a new back and battery. Works great!! Sorry I can't remember his name.
Thanks- good to know. That sounds like something I'd do, order the part, only to find out it was there were two different versions and I had gotten the wrong one!

I'm assuming this is the site? https://www.nabilselectronics.com/ - I was just looking it up.

Last edited by dualresponse; 01-18-20 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 01-18-20, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
Thanks again for the replies.

Fortunately, I've got all the mounts, and the hr strap, so all I'd need is the base unit.

I've long lost the cadence sensor. Never really used it.

I've got powermeters on my road bikes, and this is for my gravel bike/ and to perhaps complement the road powermeter data, so no biggie if it isn't compatible with powermeter data. I'd want only HR, Temp, Altitude, stop watch, distance, Speed, rough calorie estimator, and for the ride- maps. Pretty basic stuff. as long as I can upload the info after the ride into a computer, I'm good. No blue tooth needed. There will be no strava segments.


Oh yeah- and I'm getting older, so a BIG DISPLAY that I can custom set large number sizes on so I don't need reading glasses to see it. The Garmin edge/explore might just be all that I need. I'm assuming it has the upgrade to get me "back" on course should I get "off" course... (not that that would EVER happen to me with my incredible directional instincts. )

I am also assuming I can set up custom displays, like on the garmin 800 to display either a few numbers really big, or a whole bunch of numbers in smaller sizes.
The Explore does not have a temperature sensor, from what I remember.

All the units I've used - 810, Explore, 1000 & 1030 allow customized data fields on the data screens. I think the Explore only allows 2 data screens, the 1030 allows more. The 1030 I think allows up to 10 data fields on a data screen, so you set the number of items you want displayed and can set what you want where, the fewer you have the larger the display for what you set as the initial (on the top) of the screen. I use 7 fields on my standard road bike so the primary and largest data fields are Speed, Distance and Timer (ride time).
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Old 01-18-20, 01:49 PM
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Fixyourgps.com
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Old 01-18-20, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tandem Tom View Post
And the internals were not quite the same and I couldn't make it work.
The 800 uses two layouts for the parts: one is the original 800 layout and the other is the one for the 810.
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Old 01-18-20, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
I am also assuming I can set up custom displays, like on the garmin 800 to display either a few numbers really big, or a whole bunch of numbers in smaller sizes.
This is standard for all of the 8xx and up units. I believe it's the case for the 5xx units too.
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Old 01-18-20, 03:02 PM
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SO CLOSE!!!! I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the explore, but Steve is right- no temp sensor. Arghh!

I ride in the mountains and in winter, it really is nice to have a temperature readout, especially when up high and the temps plummet. Seems picky, but especially on night rides where the sun sets, I watch it a lot.

Looking back, it's amazing how good of a fit the 800 is- pretty has everything I want already- except it is old- so I've got to look at replacing the screen $80, it's second battery is on it's last leg $45, and... It sounds like the charging/ connector port might eventually go south due to use over time/ more $.



With that, the explore was making sense. I was really looking forward to getting it and being done with it. But now, for the extra $ to get the 1030, I could get an explore AND fix my 800... hmmmm

Perhaps get the explore and a remote temp sensor?

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Old 01-18-20, 03:35 PM
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Or an 830 for $400

For the screen size, especially looking at maps, or wanting a large display, the 1030 @$550 is likely a better choice, just expensive. Battery life is very good though. I’m glad I bought the 1030, it was worth the money has been reliable with good features.
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Old 01-19-20, 10:24 PM
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I've gone through 2 800s. Both had screen failures. (First one would not respond to touch, second got moisture under the screen and then just displayed some sort of troubleshooting data.) Replaced the second one with Edge Explore. EE is OK, but prefer the 800 tbh. EE has about 2/3 the battery life. I don't like the buttons on the edge of the unit instead of top -- hard to operate on barfly out front mount. Only can save data for 1 bike. No temp or baro. Seems the main thing Garmin worked on was downloadable apps, which I haven't used. Note that you could always sideload free OSM maps on the 800. But only one could be active at a time. The screen on the EE is a bit bigger, closer to the 1000. I only connect to the Garmin speed/cadence sensor.

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Old 01-20-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
Hello,
Sooooo....
I've got three choices- buy a new screen for my older garmin 800 for about $30, buy a new "used" garmin 800 for around $100 on fleabay, or buy a new device for $500-600.

So, what should I do?
I'd buy a new screen and install a microsd card with maps from openfietsmap.nl. Openfietsmap starts with the Open Street Map cycle maps and adjusts the routing metadata to favor bicycle routes.

What new features do the newer garmins have that mine does not?
They record new metrics like heart rate variability, can display notifications from your cellular phone, have downloadable apps, and have WiFi so you don't need to connect to your computer to upload, Some are bigger.

As a minus, they no longer have a programmable odometer.

Would I be able to just get another old 800 and download maps for free now? It seems like the maps are now free non proprietary downloads which would even work with my 800 assuming I put a blank card in it.
After a bad experience with the 810 firmware crashing following a route with a round about I switched to the older 800 and have since picked up a spare for when the rubber buttons on it fail like my Edge 500.

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Old 01-21-20, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
Oh yeah- and I'm getting older, so a BIG DISPLAY that I can custom set large number sizes on so I don't need reading glasses to see it. The Garmin edge/explore might just be all that I need. I'm assuming it has the upgrade to get me "back" on course should I get "off" course... (not that that would EVER happen to me with my incredible directional instincts. )

I am also assuming I can set up custom displays, like on the garmin 800 to display either a few numbers really big, or a whole bunch of numbers in smaller sizes.
You can certainly set up custom displays on the 1030 with only 3-5 fields. The font size is then HUGE!
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Old 01-21-20, 11:00 AM
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I have an Edge Explore - my first and only gps unit so I can't compare it. It does have a direct back to course feature. The one annoying feature for me is the sharp turn warning which cannot be deactivated unless you create a course. I downloaded a gradient data screen from Garmin Connect which works adequately - It does not respond immediately to changes in grade, so for a short steep pitch you may never know. iI you don't care for the standard mount It requires the extended out front mount to access the start stop button on the front of the unit.
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Old 01-21-20, 11:35 AM
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Thanks everyone for the replies. ...and the answer is... (drumroll)....I ordered a 1030.
I might send in the 800 for repairs anyway, but decided I just wanted to be over and done with in terms of having something that works.

Now....another quick question- GARMIN MAPS!

Back in 2011/12, I bought the garmin topo maps and had them send me the microSD card with the info. Somehow- ahem- It got lost.
When I go online, I see plenty of "free" maps, but they still seem to point me towards re-buying the original $99 maps. Where source do you all use for topo/ or satellite maps?
I don't feel like shelling out another $100 bucks, but will if I have to.

TIA
Ron
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Old 01-21-20, 12:14 PM
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The 1030 comes with maps. If you go outside your home country/area (USA?), you can probably get the OSM maps.

I ran my 800 for 4-5 years with nothing except OSM maps. See https://www.navigation-professionell...ur-garmin-gps/ for details. There was a site that had quarter/half/full CONUS maps available for download and installation onto your own card; perhaps someone can chime in with the link for that.
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Old 01-21-20, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dualresponse View Post
Now....another quick question- GARMIN MAPS!

Back in 2011/12, I bought the garmin topo maps and had them send me the microSD card with the info. Somehow- ahem- It got lost.
When I go online, I see plenty of "free" maps, but they still seem to point me towards re-buying the original $99 maps. Where source do you all use for topo/ or satellite maps?
I don't feel like shelling out another $100 bucks, but will if I have to.
Get use to the unit first. Following are some sources for free (or low cost) maps. These maps are based (usually) on Openstreetmap (OSM) data.

Note that the installed maps include contour lines (you can disable/enable displaying them).

I don't know if there are free sources for satellite images.

Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap
 Updated twice a month.
 Can select custom regions to create just the map you need.
 Provides BaseCamp installer (select "Map installer for BaseCamp/MapSource on the Windows platform."). But you don’t need to use the BaseCamp installer to use the maps in BaseCamp. Instead, you can copy the img file to a SD card or a virtual SD card and BaseCamp will see the map.

https://extract.bbbike.org/
 The maps here are updated more frequently than the above site.
 Can select custom regions to create just the map you need.
 Only provides the "img" file.

OpenFietsMap
 Another source for maps.

USA OSM Topo Routable | GMapTool
 Maps with contour lines targeting hiking.

OpenTopoMap Garmin-Edition
 Maps with contour lines targeting hiking.

https://www.velomap.org/
 Uses data from GEOFABRIK // Home (which, itself, is updated daily).
 Maps are provided as countries/larger regions. This means you might need to download a bigger map than you need or more than one big map.
 Provides maps as installer for BaseCamp.

https://openmtbmap.org/
 Maps targeting mountain biking.
 Same owner as velomap.org.

‹berblick
 Maps with contour lines.
 Maps appear to be in German.

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Old 01-21-20, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
The 1030 comes with maps. If you go outside your home country/area (USA?), you can probably get the OSM maps.
Yes, you can. This works like a charm. One advantage is that you can download just the region you need (make it faster to get up-to-date map).
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