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Lance podcasts

Old 01-28-20, 07:40 AM
  #26  
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
And if I recall correctly, those people did not even want to out him as a doper… Some of them were under subpoena, testifying in various lawsuits and such. And he still engaged in witness tampering and intimidation. his treatment of Greg LeMond was particularly heartless and cruel.

He never really expressed much regret or contrition for what he had done. He’s a bad person, and I will not listen to or watch any program that features him.
He is doing a $30 k Mallorca ride with George Hincappie ... wonder why Frankie Andreu isn't involved. ....
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Old 01-28-20, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
He is doing a $30 k Mallorca ride with George Hincappie ... wonder why Frankie Andreu isn't involved. ....
I wouldn’t pay big money to ride in Mallorca with these two druggies.
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Old 01-28-20, 11:59 AM
  #28  
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Armstrong had loads of talent, likely more than any rider in pro cycling at the time. Dope was the norm then, and he was able to connect with the right people to perfect its use. What he did to those that would not support him during and after the scandal is terrible, however one can be reformed and forgiven. Perhaps it is our hearts that need the reform to grant him grace and forgiveness?
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Old 01-28-20, 12:20 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Armstrong had loads of talent, likely more than any rider in pro cycling at the time. Dope was the norm then, and he was able to connect with the right people to perfect its use. What he did to those that would not support him during and after the scandal is terrible, however one can be reformed and forgiven. Perhaps it is our hearts that need the reform to grant him grace and forgiveness?

Frankly, I think he got enough of a break by withholding his "confession" and rather incomplete apology until after any applicable statutes of limitations on the multiple felonies were up. I do not intend to give him a minute of my listening time and I think NBC should not lend him a platform for more of his self-promotion.
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Old 01-28-20, 12:28 PM
  #30  
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As for the podcast/person..........I look at it like the phenomenon of how at first you look towards a naked person OR a car accident. Then you look away in shame. Then, perhaps, maybe sneak another look.
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Old 01-28-20, 12:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Armstrong had loads of talent, likely more than any rider in pro cycling at the time. Dope was the norm then, and he was able to connect with the right people to perfect its use. What he did to those that would not support him during and after the scandal is terrible, however one can be reformed and forgiven. Perhaps it is our hearts that need the reform to grant him grace and forgiveness?
Again, we don't know if he was the most talented rider at that time. That's the problem with doping: it tilts the playing field and robs race results of their meaning.

Armstrong admitted to wrongdoing only after the evidence was beyond overwhelming...and even then, he hardly seemed sorry and expressed no contrition.

Remember, this is the guy who got drunk and crashed his car in Aspen, and then tried to let his girlfriend take the rap. He's just a bad person.
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Old 01-28-20, 01:22 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Again, we don't know if he was the most talented rider at that time. That's the problem with doping: it tilts the playing field and robs race results of their meaning.

Armstrong admitted to wrongdoing only after the evidence was beyond overwhelming...and even then, he hardly seemed sorry and expressed no contrition.

Remember, this is the guy who got drunk and crashed his car in Aspen, and then tried to let his girlfriend take the rap. He's just a bad person.
Plus he's never apologized to those whom he destroyed.

When Lance stated that it's not about the bike he was probably thing, "No, it's about the dope and how you use it."

He just strikes me as being an evil person whose only concern is himself.

Cheers
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Old 01-28-20, 01:58 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Plus he's never apologized to those whom he destroyed.

When Lance stated that it's not about the bike he was probably thing, "No, it's about the dope and how you use it."

He just strikes me as being an evil person whose only concern is himself.

Cheers
even with the podcasts I felt last summer it was too commercial and he was talking too much about his tight little group of friends (mostly from the old postal team) (all those m fers are now very rich and getting richer)

it was getting too much about him and less about the race, bicycles, etc.

now he has been missing in action since last summer

I will find somewhere else to get TDF news and daily reports (along with watching NBCSN) next summer.
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Old 01-28-20, 02:38 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Rajflyboy View Post
We do have a lot of good stuff to watch concerning cycling.

I guess I feel now that Lance was promoting himself with the podcasts and not just trying to educate the fans on how things work at the top levels of cycling.
That's how most podcasts and vlogs work. It's almost always about self promotion and branding. GCN videos are mostly recycled ideas, updated by new presenters or to accommodate new sponsors by plugging their products or featuring whichever sponsor sent them a helmet or new toy to play with. I enjoy GCN videos but they are often mostly infomercials.

Most videos about bike fit, gear tweaks and adjustments to improve our go-fast are promoting the branding of bike fitters and trainers/coaches. They may not pimp themselves heavily in some videos, but it's all about marketing.

At the moment the only channel I watch routinely that doesn't appear to be promoting anything is Laterne Rouge. But I suspect he's honing his chops in hopes of getting a paid gig as a racing analyst/commentator. He's very good, better than most well known pro analysts/commentators. He needs to slow down his delivery a bit, but his mind works so quickly I suppose he's just trying to keep up with his thoughts. I'm assuming he gets some revenue through YouTube but either he doesn't feature ads or my browser blocks them. Some YouTube channels have become almost unwatchable due to the frequent ads. If it's longer than 10 seconds, I close that tab and may unsubscribe if the ads are too long or frequent.
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Old 01-28-20, 03:19 PM
  #35  
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I will have to check out Laterne Rouge. I guess you are right on how most podcasts go 👍
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Old 01-29-20, 08:52 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
And if I recall correctly, those people did not even want to out him as a doper… Some of them were under subpoena, testifying in various lawsuits and such. And he still engaged in witness tampering and intimidation. his treatment of Greg LeMond was particularly heartless and cruel.

He never really expressed much regret or contrition for what he had done. He’s a bad person, and I will not listen to or watch any program that features him.
He expressed plenty of regret and contrition and he also apologized to LeMond. That his apologies do not satisfy you doesn't mean he didn't do it, and frankly, it ain't about you. Take the apology to LeMond for example. He did it. If LeMond doesn't want to accept it, that's fine. He doesn't have to. I don't need Lance to apologize again or to fall at LeMond's feet and grovel for me to consider that Lance did his part in making amends. His apology to LeMond ain't about me.
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Old 01-29-20, 08:53 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
Plus he's never apologized to those whom he destroyed.

Cheers
Give me some examples of people he should apologize to but did not.
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Old 01-29-20, 09:20 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
He expressed plenty of regret and contrition and he also apologized to LeMond. That his apologies do not satisfy you doesn't mean he didn't do it, and frankly, it ain't about you. Take the apology to LeMond for example. He did it. If LeMond doesn't want to accept it, that's fine. He doesn't have to. I don't need Lance to apologize again or to fall at LeMond's feet and grovel for me to consider that Lance did his part in making amends. His apology to LeMond ain't about me.
Please provide a source for this claim. I'm not being rhetorical or snarky - rather I am genuinely I interested. I'm willing to acknowledge that I may have missed something.

Also, I agree that it's not about you, nor about me. We're all just expressing opinions here.
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Old 01-29-20, 09:49 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
Give me some examples of people he should apologize to but did not.
Okay, here you go: By his own admission on the Oprah show, Lance owes an apology to David Walsh, the journalist whose career Lance tried to destroy -- all because Walsh had published accurate stories about Lance's doping. Lance went so far as to sue Walsh's employer, the Sunday Times newspaper, for libel.

Lance has not apologized to Walsh. In fact, here is an article about it, titled "Lance Armstrong and the Apology that Never Happened."
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Old 01-29-20, 09:57 AM
  #40  
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About forgiveness.

It's possible to forgive someone but still not allow them to participate in the arena they committed their crimes in. His behavior in professional cycling was reprehensible. The result was his not being allowed to participate there anymore. The backdoor reentry by other means seems distasteful.

I understand why some Americans may still like Lance. He won a lot, for them. But would their opinion change if he were from a different team and his cheating cost the Americans seven wins at the TdF?
Greatest cyclist of his time or greatest cheat?

It's all about perspective and the international cycling scene has to think about how their decision effects all competitors and fans. You can forgive the person and still insist he not be involved in the sport.
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Old 01-29-20, 10:13 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
But would their opinion change if he were from a different team and his cheating cost the Americans seven wins at the TdF?
Greatest cyclist of his time or greatest cheat?
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Old 01-29-20, 11:23 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Please provide a source for this claim. I'm not being rhetorical or snarky - rather I am genuinely I interested. I'm willing to acknowledge that I may have missed something.

Also, I agree that it's not about you, nor about me. We're all just expressing opinions here.
I was wrong about him apologizing to Lemond. The joys of relying on my memory. He publicly said he owed LeMond an apology. That is very different from actually giving one.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ng/1035056001/
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Old 01-29-20, 11:57 AM
  #43  
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Meh. At this point I'm disillusioned with all pro sports, and all of the athletes (former and current) are implicated by association. It's not that Lance is dead to me; but he's not worth listening to.
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Old 01-29-20, 01:22 PM
  #44  
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One thing we can say for sure ... pro riders are much more careful about doping after the Armstrong Era.
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Old 01-29-20, 01:50 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I understand why some Americans may still like Lance. He won a lot, for them. But would their opinion change if he were from a different team and his cheating cost the Americans seven wins at the TdF?
Greatest cyclist of his time or greatest cheat?
Tom Simpson anyone?

Dies while doped up in a race..........gets monument on mountain. RIP, but the hypocrisy between American and Euro views on this topic IMHO are pretty crap. Americans cheat and make a historic run on what's traditionally a Euro party and whoa whoa whoa.

Lance was a turd all around no doubt about it, but if we're going to get all into it..........what about all the Euro cheats? I mean, c'mon, the doctors and clinics and origins were there. Girona, Ferrari, etc.... He drank deep from the well, he didn't dig it himself. How many other victories of people should be vacated? How many could even be vacated posthumously given the evidence?

The other tragedy, Pantani...........national hero........heroes funeral.........doper.

Now, those two raced together.
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Old 01-29-20, 02:20 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Tom Simpson anyone?

Dies while doped up in a race..........gets monument on mountain. RIP, but the hypocrisy between American and Euro views on this topic IMHO are pretty crap. Americans cheat and make a historic run on what's traditionally a Euro party and whoa whoa whoa.

Lance was a turd all around no doubt about it, but if we're going to get all into it..........what about all the Euro cheats? I mean, c'mon, the doctors and clinics and origins were there. Girona, Ferrari, etc.... He drank deep from the well, he didn't dig it himself. How many other victories of people should be vacated? How many could even be vacated posthumously given the evidence?

The other tragedy, Pantani...........national hero........heroes funeral.........doper.

Now, those two raced together.
Perhaps.. maybe.. IDK. The two people you refer to both died either directly or from guilt/remorse for their actions. I think they paid enough.

In any case, we are talking about Lance. If the only defense is that others do bad things too that doesn't say a lot about our ethics. Either they are based on some sort of principle or what we and others can get away with.
In this case I don't really care about Lance's ethics so much. He has demonstrated them and they are his responsibility. I would be more concerned about my own that I was willing to overlook such behavior just because it meant success or entertainment. Would having him as a commentator for the TdF draw viewers? Perhaps. I would prefer not to see it happen because I don't believe he should be able to profit from fame that was garnered in the same sport via cheating and maligning others.
Doesn't mean I think he should not have some sort of job or the ability to rebuild his life or that I think other forms of cheating are ok by comparison.
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Old 01-29-20, 03:50 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Tom Simpson anyone?

Dies while doped up in a race..........gets monument on mountain. RIP, but the hypocrisy between American and Euro views on this topic IMHO are pretty crap. Americans cheat and make a historic run on what's traditionally a Euro party and whoa whoa whoa.

Lance was a turd all around no doubt about it, but if we're going to get all into it..........what about all the Euro cheats? I mean, c'mon, the doctors and clinics and origins were there. Girona, Ferrari, etc.... He drank deep from the well, he didn't dig it himself. How many other victories of people should be vacated? How many could even be vacated posthumously given the evidence?

The other tragedy, Pantani...........national hero........heroes funeral.........doper.

Now, those two raced together.
Honest question: was doping against the rules when Tom Simpson did it?

Aside from that, I agree that if credible evidence is available, people caught cheating should have to vacate their applicable titles and certainly shouldn't be worshipped like some riders apparently are.
Having said that, I don't detest most cheaters the way I feel about Lance... simply because, as others have said, they generally aren't terrible people and in particular, they don't destroy the careers of people for simply telling the truth.
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Old 01-29-20, 04:29 PM
  #48  
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So I’m guessing the podcast topic was just a tongue-in-cheek way to discuss the doping, judging by the preponderance of posts here.
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Old 01-29-20, 04:58 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
So I’m guessing the podcast topic was just a tongue-in-cheek way to discuss the doping, judging by the preponderance of posts here.
Hey, it’s winter time for some of us and the roads are covered in snow. We’ve got to have something to do.
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Old 01-29-20, 05:47 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Meh. At this point I'm disillusioned with all pro sports, and all of the athletes (former and current) are implicated by association. It's not that Lance is dead to me; but he's not worth listening to.
more and more I like grassroots sports over big time stick and ball sports.
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