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Highest Price for a road bike for hilly races

Old 02-12-20, 08:30 AM
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sobre
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Highest Price for a road bike for hilly races

Hello fellas.
How much do you think is the highest bid for a decent bike in order to gain the maximus efficency without spending too much money for amateur players?
Considering hilly races of 90-180km.
Recently I have upgraded my bike (I bought a new one less heavy) and I had a gain of 5 minutes for each 1 hour of course, that means at least 40 minutes for 180km races.
For example, I won't buy a bike worth 6000€ more, to gain 5 extra minutes during our 180km, but if 1000€ more means 40 minutes more... then it's starting to be a real difference.
I understand profesional athletes try to look for the best and those extra 5 minutes may cost them the 1st place; but for all the rest of us, who doesn't look for those crazy marks, I wonder what's the highest fair price we should go.
So that's my question, what's the highest price you think the amateur player should aim in order to gain the maximus extra time without spending too much.
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Old 02-12-20, 08:38 AM
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Old 02-12-20, 08:40 AM
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So much of it comes down to how motivated the rider is that there isn't a dollar number that would have meaning.

Gains are logarithmic/exponential or similar. Asymptotic. At some point, infinity money = only half the gain of not-infinity money. Sorry....And that, of course is entertaining the idea that there is a relationship between dollars & speed. Which, if there is, then it is merely coincidental.

If you want to get faster that is one discussion. If you want more ability, that is another. To dominate, you need both.

Last edited by base2; 02-12-20 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 02-12-20, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
So much of it comes down to how motivated the rider is that there isn't a dollar number that would have meaning.

Gains are logarithmic/exponential or similar. Asymptotic. At some point, infinity money = only half the gain of not-infinity money. Sorry....And that, of course is entertaining the idea that there is a relationship between dollars & speed. Which, if there is, then it is merely coincidental.

If you want to get faster that is one discussion. If you want more ability, that is another. To dominate, you need both.
C'mon... there is a clear difference to gain speed and finish less tired, between a bike of 11kg, and a bike of 6kg...
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Old 02-12-20, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
C'mon... there is a clear difference to gain speed and finish less tired, between a bike of 11kg, and a bike of 6kg...
Weight & speed? Yes.
Aero & speed? Of course.
Fitness, strength, ability, etc & speed? Theres no question.

Dollars & speed? Inconclusive.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:14 AM
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The common answer I see in these kind of threads is to invest in a quality coach.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:16 AM
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Unless there was a huge weight difference and the 2 bikes had the exact same geometry, fit, drivetrain and tires, I doubt weight made a 5 minute difference per hour.

You also can ride one day with the exact same bike and be 5 minutes faster just because physical fitness difference from day to day. Or just different wind.

How much each kg or minute lost is worth to you? Only you will know.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:36 AM
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The more you go up in price, the less the improvement will be per amount spent.

I think in most cases, people will buy the best bike they can reasonably afford regardless of how much improvement they may see from spending an extra x amount.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:42 AM
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So in simpler terms, this is a "how much speed can I buy" question. That question is a redirect from the core question, "why am I not faster?"

If you think the bike is slowing you down, you're probably right. But the most important word in that sentence is think, not bike.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:42 AM
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sobre
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Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun View Post
Unless there was a huge weight difference and the 2 bikes had the exact same geometry, fit, drivetrain and tires, I doubt weight made a 5 minute difference per hour.

You also can ride one day with the exact same bike and be 5 minutes faster just because physical fitness difference from day to day. Or just different wind.

How much each kg or minute lost is worth to you? Only you will know.
Yeah,,, you got a point there. I understand what you say.
However, in my case, I had a 5 min difference with those 2 bikes on hills. One was aluminium and it was 200 bucks when I bought it already used from another guy, the other one was full carbon and I bought it also used from another guy for 800 bucks, so the weight difference was important I guess. But that's why I was trying to see what was the real difference you may have from one bike to another, because I thought maybe if I could get better bike lets say 1500 bucks (double price of my one), thinking about the previous upgrade than got me those extra 5 min, I was thinking maybe this new bike would mean 5 min more...

Just trying to see if it worth to buy a new better one or not.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg View Post
The more you go up in price, the less the improvement will be per amount spent.

I think in most cases, people will buy the best bike they can reasonably afford regardless of how much improvement they may see from spending an extra x amount.
Of course, that's exactly why I was thinking maybe you have an aproximate price with the maximula efficency you can get than worth the price.

The point is, even if I could afford a more expensive bike, I would like to know than it was money well used. I have enough money to can invest in a better bike than the one I actually have, but I don't like to waste money non-sense. It's like buying a super expensive car who can go up to 200km/h, only to be used in a little town to move around.

Last edited by sobre; 02-12-20 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:45 AM
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The common answer I see in these kind of threads is to invest in a quality weight loss coach.
FIFY.

Unless you are underweight, worrying about a weight difference between bikes that is probably less than a water bottle is a bit pointless. If it were me, I would focus on quality low rolling-resistance tires, bike fit, good wheels, and comfortable contact points (saddle, peddle/shoe interface, bars/tape) to avoid premature fatigue.

Last edited by wgscott; 02-12-20 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
I had a gain of 5 minutes for each 1 hour of course, that means at least 40 minutes for 180km races.
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Old 02-12-20, 10:02 AM
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sobre
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
FIFY.

Unless you are underweight, worrying about a weight difference between bikes that is probably less than a water bottle is a bit pointless. If it were me, I would focus on quality low rolling-resistance tires, bike fit, good wheels, and comfortable contact points (saddle, peddle/shoe interface, bars/tape) to avoid premature fatigue.
You are right. Weight isn't much difference I guess. Then I guess if my bike is already full carbon, it's more a matter of improving things on my current bike.

Originally Posted by autonomy View Post
extrapolating...
hahahahaha I love it!
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Old 02-12-20, 10:07 AM
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the weight of the bike has nothing to do with it. it's all about your kit, and cranking it up to 400 Watts. I am sorry I have to drop you because you look like Lance
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Old 02-12-20, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
C'mon... there is a clear difference to gain speed and finish less tired, between a bike of 11kg, and a bike of 6kg...
There is, but as others have pointed out, no one can tell you what an appropriate price is for that, everyone's budget is different.

I've done group rides where I've been on my 10kg gravel bike (with 40mm tires), and have handily beaten guys on 6kg superbikes w/deep aero wheels. It's not possible for them to buy any more speed, they can only train harder if they want to get faster.

Very few, if any, of us are being held back by our bikes.
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Old 02-12-20, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hazetguy View Post
the weight of the bike has nothing to do with it. it's all about your kit, and cranking it up to 400 Watts. I am sorry I have to drop you because you look like Lance
Many thanks for linking to that gem of a thread
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Old 02-12-20, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
Yeah,,, you got a point there. I understand what you say.
However, in my case, I had a 5 min difference with those 2 bikes on hills. One was aluminium and it was 200 bucks when I bought it already used from another guy, the other one was full carbon and I bought it also used from another guy for 800 bucks, so the weight difference was important I guess. But that's why I was trying to see what was the real difference you may have from one bike to another, because I thought maybe if I could get better bike lets say 1500 bucks (double price of my one), thinking about the previous upgrade than got me those extra 5 min, I was thinking maybe this new bike would mean 5 min more...

Just trying to see if it worth to buy a new better one or not.
Take the light bike and ride it. Next time strap 5 pounds to it and repeat. That way you have most factors the same. Weigh both bikes to see what the difference is.

Repeat multiple times to account for your own weight changes, fitness and wind difference.

Unless you weigh 90 pounds, I doubt 5 pounds will make much difference.
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Old 02-12-20, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
so the weight difference was important I guess. But that's why I was trying to see what was the real difference you may have from one bike to another, because I thought maybe if I could get better bike lets say 1500 bucks (double price of my one), thinking about the previous upgrade than got me those extra 5 min, I was thinking maybe this new bike would mean 5 min more...

Just trying to see if it worth to buy a new better one or not.
It's not linear like that
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Old 02-12-20, 10:45 AM
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I'm waiting for you all to post your bids, so I can bid 1 dollar more and win.

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Old 02-12-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
It's not linear like that

There could be a multiplier effect if buying the more expensive bike makes your wallet lighter.
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Old 02-12-20, 11:31 AM
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Money does not equal speed, unless you're going from 25-30 pound tank to a svelte 15-19 pound carbon racer. Before you spend a dime on one single new part or a new bike - make damn sure your BIKE FIT is correct and optimal to your body type and riding style. Optimize yourself first, optimize your equipment later. If your current carbon frame is a nice one - decent weight and stiffness, your first, best bang for the buck is a new wheel set. Carbon or Aluminum makes little difference, but the newer generation wider rims are highly recommended. A set of high quality aluminum rims are just as light as - and can be even more durable than carbon. I personally swear by Boyd Wheels and have two sets of their Altamonts.

If you want a new bike, decide what you want to spend and go for the best combination of geometry, components, and weight.

Never forget - it's a LOT easier to lose 5 lbs from a flabby butt than paying for ever lighter components to shave it off your bike.
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Old 02-12-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by sobre View Post
Yeah,,, you got a point there. I understand what you say.
However, in my case, I had a 5 min difference with those 2 bikes on hills. One was aluminium and it was 200 bucks when I bought it already used from another guy, the other one was full carbon and I bought it also used from another guy for 800 bucks, so the weight difference was important I guess. But that's why I was trying to see what was the real difference you may have from one bike to another, because I thought maybe if I could get better bike lets say 1500 bucks (double price of my one), thinking about the previous upgrade than got me those extra 5 min, I was thinking maybe this new bike would mean 5 min more...

Just trying to see if it worth to buy a new better one or not.
how do you know those extra 5 min we’re not due to better wind conditions that day or maybe you were drafting others that day . Spend the extra money on a power meter so you will then know true gains from the 2 bikes then when you get fit enough buy the best bike you can afford
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Old 02-12-20, 11:51 AM
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How come no one ever gives the advice asked? Do you really think the OP does not already know the biggest factor is him?

There's a HUGE difference between say an costco bike and 5k+ carbon fiber bike with all the bells and whistles. Somewhere is the sweet spot for the non podium people.
Spend 1k more save 5 minutes. good deal. Spend 4k save 3 seconds not for the average joe.

Basically I think you want a used Z06 in the bike world. Not much goes faster than a used Z06 on race track for the given amount of money.

I don't have experience to answer you sobre.

The GCN did a video apr 2018 that might be of some interest to you.

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Old 02-12-20, 12:04 PM
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sobre
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Originally Posted by sean.hwy View Post
How come no one ever gives the advice asked? Do you really think the OP does not already know the biggest factor is him?

There's a HUGE difference between say an costco bike and 5k+ carbon fiber bike with all the bells and whistles. Somewhere is the sweet spot for the non podium people.
Spend 1k more save 5 minutes. good deal. Spend 4k save 3 seconds not for the average joe.

Basically I think you want a used Z06 in the bike world. Not much goes faster than a used Z06 on race track for the given amount of money.

I don't have experience to answer you sobre.

The GCN did a video apr 2018 that might be of some interest to you.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. Finally someone tries to answer my real question. I tried to look this kind of information online to have one idea but I didn't find the answer I was looking for, so I wanted to try my luck here to ask people with more experience.
Thank you for sharing this youtube video, it will definitly help.
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