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Ultimate Stream Pepper Spray

Old 03-15-20, 07:06 PM
  #126  
ups
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
As I stated above, I carried for the first time on my regular afternoon Rec ride yesterday and I was self conscious and preoccupied by it and it basically ruined my ride to a degree. Did you feel this way when you first started carrying it?
Wouldn't be self conscious in the least.

Now the first time you conceal carry a firearm in public, well that makes you feel self conscious....😉
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Old 03-15-20, 07:16 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by ups View Post
Wouldn't be self conscious in the least.

Now the first time you conceal carry a firearm in public, well that makes you feel self conscious....😉
Got over it on the second ride with it, I am good, I love it. I feel freer now the I ever did.

Its funny, I carry in the truck, because you are allowed to without CCP and I don't even think about it. But that first ride carrying that defensive spray made me self conscious. Maybe because it involved recreation not a purpose and I was afraid it would take the fun out of it.
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Old 03-15-20, 08:39 PM
  #128  
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Interesting thread surprised it lasted....I carry spray that's 3 million SHU and I spent 26 years in law enforcement ( you can read whatever you in that) I have been riding in a large 80+ thousand acre wilderness area lately and I carry a survival kit with me in case I get lost or hurt, the spray stays in my vehicle cause I just don't feel the need to have it in that environment and it takes up space BUT I am prepared and I will leave it at that....when I'm in town or on a rail trail then I will carry the spray
a cellphone and situational awareness will serve you well in a bike ride or everyday life but nice to have choices
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Old 03-16-20, 03:58 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
But isn't it the same way in the USA and many other countries around the world, where you have to prove that you are innocent and that your attacker was an aggressor who came at you and intended to hurt you ??
No..

I've listened to a couple survival podcasts, where they have discussed the self defense laws and rules in the US and Canada. Canada has much stricter rules and what is self defense. I use to travel to Canada to hunt, with firearms. Talked with a CA attorney about self defense in hotel/motel, I was told best bet legally to just give the criminals everything they want, do not fight back.
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Old 03-16-20, 11:13 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by aabb View Post
Doesnt seem to be available on Amazon Canada :/
I donít believe it is legal in Canada. Google is your friend.
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Old 03-16-20, 11:42 AM
  #131  
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My wife and I have been carrying some for a year or so now. I bought some small saddle bags that sit on the crossbar that are really easy to unzip and grab the canister. I've come close to using it once when a dog was just about at my feet. Fortunately, the owner (homeless gentleman) came out of the trees and called it back and it responded.
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Old 03-16-20, 05:56 PM
  #132  
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If you look at my Internet handle, I imagine you can guess what I did before I retired. Whatever you carry is up to you. Am now 70, can't do the kicks and open hand defense any more. Won't say if or what I carry on the trike. Fox is not popular with most PD's, simply because decontamination takes too long. Short story, it is intensely effective for an extended period of time (not a bad thing).

Even if I weren't so old, can't outrun a dog. He has four legs, and knows how to use them. Been there, done that, had to take the Rabies shots. I will go out of my way to avoid a repeat of that fun.

As far as a firearm on the bike, that is up to you. An impulsive criminal, seeing a chance to get a few dollars off a rider with funny clothes must not be overlooked. If you decide to carry either, it is very important to have training. Most chemical spray makers have inert testing units. Oddly enough, when "Dog, the Bounty Hunter" was on TV, they used inert units. The yellow label is a sure giveaway. Brandishing or pointing a firearm at someone is almost always aggravated assault, a felony in most jurisdictions. Watch your P's and Q's before doing this. The defense to this is usually imminent fear of serious bodily injury or death. Imminent means NOW, not in 10 seconds! This does not cover a punch in the nose. When old, handicapped, or a woman, there are other factors that come into play. Disparity in size, age, numbers. A chat with a self defense oriented attorney will be money well spent.

At 70, I choose to not live in fear. In another life I trained folks to survive the rigors of chasing down bad guys. My training saved lives, and unfortunately, lives were lost simply because of circumstances. When you train to run toward gunfire, sometimes bad things happen.

Happy trails to all.
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Old 03-17-20, 07:08 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil View Post
We are anything but passive. Canada entered both World wars long before Americans did and fought in most of the toughest battles in both wars.However, we are not fearful. All types of violent crime rates in Canada are much lower than in the US. We have much less to be fearful about. We can be conciliatory, but do not confuse that with passiveness. They are not the same thing
Yes, Canada entered WWII long before Americans and they ended up in Dunkirk.
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Old 03-17-20, 09:50 AM
  #134  
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U.S. entered the war and had a nice little march in Bataan.
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Old 03-17-20, 01:31 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Wolfhaven View Post
U.S. entered the war and had a nice little march in Bataan.
Indeed there were many trials and tribulations including Pearl and the Bulge before America was instrumental in securing unconditional surrender in all War Theaters. Without whom it could not have been done.

From D-Day with the Higgins Landing Craft after America entered the war, the Allies stuffed Hitler back in Berlin in 9 months, 9 months.

Last edited by mjac; 03-17-20 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 03-17-20, 08:20 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
I will never understand that every time this topic comes up the preaccupation with what if you misuse a personal self defense weapon and something goes wrong. Well, what happens when a criminal assaults you or someone around you and you have no way of protecting yourself or them? This idea that there will be widespread abuse of self defense is just not true. Sure there are incidences,nothing is perfect. But according to very sophisticated studies a particular self defense weapon, not allowed to be mentioned in this forum, is used over 3 million times a year to stop a crime. It is one of the reasons violent crime, outside of urban cities, has been dropping significantly nation wide for years. Florida has over 13 million CC holders, so we are not talking about a small sample here, and the revocation rate is .17%. That is point one. seven per cent with the point in front. I don't want to sound like a fanatic here, but you have to be realistic here and face the truth. Not what the press tells you.
Generally with a firearm people are going to at least go to the range and learn how to use it and if you are a concealed carry holder you do need a permit.

I love that we are arguing that training on self defense doesn't seem important. Instead of saying what a sane rational person would say is yes training is important we are trying to say because criminals are bad we don't need to worry about training.

Having seen untrained people going into situations they cannot handle and causing problems I can say training and being able to handle stressful situations is extremely important. Yes you can get lucky and yes you might stop a criminal sure but why not train a bit especially if you are carrying a ranged weapon?
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Old 03-17-20, 08:21 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
Yes, Canada entered WWII long before Americans and they ended up in Dunkirk.
Somebody has been selectively reading history. There were almost no Canadians in Dunkirk during the evacuation.The Canadians involved were with the Canadian Navy working to evacuate the members of the British and French armies stranded in the city. As often has happened, Canadians were there to save other people.

Last edited by alcjphil; 03-17-20 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 03-17-20, 08:21 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
From D-Day with the Higgins Landing Craft after America entered the war, the Allies stuffed Hitler back in Berlin in 9 months, 9 months.
I think the Russians had a hand in that, too. It was Hitler's dumb decision to open up a second front. But anyway, this is getting way off topic.
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Old 03-17-20, 09:16 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes View Post
I think the Russians had a hand in that, too. It was Hitler's dumb decision to open up a second front. But anyway, this is getting way off topic.
You are right on all fronts, the Russians drained resources from the Western Front but the Germans were extremely well established in Europe and with shore defenses and it took a very bold amphibious assault, the first successful amphibious assault in modern warfare, to gain a foothold and from there cleared Europe in 9 months. No small feat. But as you say way off topic. But it is interesting. The key element was an obscure factor, the Higgins Landing Craft. There were four mistakes Hitler made,including the Russian Front, that if he had not made just one of them he would have been much harder to beat. That's the last I should talk about this, it is not the topic I guesse.
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Old 03-17-20, 09:41 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Generally with a firearm people are going to at least go to the range and learn how to use it and if you are a concealed carry holder you do need a permit.

I love that we are arguing that training on self defense doesn't seem important. Instead of saying what a sane rational person would say is yes training is important we are trying to say because criminals are bad we don't need to worry about training.

Having seen untrained people going into situations they cannot handle and causing problems I can say training and being able to handle stressful situations is extremely important. Yes you can get lucky and yes you might stop a criminal sure but why not train a bit especially if you are carrying a ranged weapon?
I am not saying training is not important especially for some people with no experience and unsure of themselves. I am saying why is the first reaction when someone says they want to defend themselves is oh no what if something goes wrong and you get yourself in trouble. It's best not to try and defend yourself at all. I disagree with this attitude and believe it leads people to be self conscious and the don't deserve to be self conscious. They are the honest party. Training has its place but I also trust people's instincts and judgement once they gain their confidence, maybe through training.
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Old 03-17-20, 11:17 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
Yes, Canada entered WWII long before Americans and they ended up in Dunkirk.
You may mistakenly be thinking about the Dieppe raid which involved Canadian troops. It was basically a dress rehearsal for D day
​​​​​​https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remem...42-dieppe-raid
" Canadians made up the great majority of the attackers in the raid. Nearly 5,000 of the 6,100 troops were Canadians. The remaining troops consisted of approximately 1,000 British Commandos and 50 American Rangers. "
over 900 Canadians were killed during the action

Last edited by alcjphil; 03-17-20 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 03-19-20, 01:16 PM
  #142  
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[QUOTE=Guntrainer;21370362]If you look at my Internet handle, I imagine you can guess what I did before I retired. Whatever you carry is up to you. Am now 70, can't do the kicks and open hand defense any more. Won't say if or what I carry on the trike. Fox is not popular with most PD's, simply because decontamination takes too long. Short story, it is intensely effective for an extended period of time (not a bad thing).

If anyone has any doubts about the strength and effectiveness of Fox Labs 5.3 Pepper Spray, read the quote from Guntrainer. I could care less about decontamination issues after the fact, I am more interested in the intensely effective for an extended period of time part. The stuff is strong.
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Old 03-19-20, 04:15 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by mjac View Post
I am not saying training is not important especially for some people with no experience and unsure of themselves. I am saying why is the first reaction when someone says they want to defend themselves is oh no what if something goes wrong and you get yourself in trouble. It's best not to try and defend yourself at all. I disagree with this attitude and believe it leads people to be self conscious and the don't deserve to be self conscious. They are the honest party. Training has its place but I also trust people's instincts and judgement once they gain their confidence, maybe through training.
That wasn't quite the nature of my reaction. My reaction was training is extremely important and in some cases being untrained can cause issues but not that someone shouldn't defend themselves. However if you are purchasing a ranged weapon especially training is key and if you have no intention on training on the object you need in a crisis why bother with it in the first place? You likely wouldn't be a defibrillator and not know how to use it?
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Old 03-20-20, 05:52 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
That wasn't quite the nature of my reaction. My reaction was training is extremely important and in some cases being untrained can cause issues but not that someone shouldn't defend themselves. However if you are purchasing a ranged weapon especially training is key and if you have no intention on training on the object you need in a crisis why bother with it in the first place? You likely wouldn't be a defibrillator and not know how to use it?
I didn't mean you, I meant the general attitude that comes up when you mention self defense. Which has come up several times in this thread. Self defense is too risky, it is not worth it, you could get into legal trouble, better talk to a lawyer before you even think about it. One guy even said a lawyer told him to just be passive and try and cooperate with the criminal as much as possible. There is a big difference from that and responsibly defending yourself, you have rights too. I think good, professional training would be helpful, like at Gunsight and Fox Labs offers training in their product specific areas that is supposed to be very good. They don't take this responsibility lightly. But both of these training sights believe you have the right to defend yourself and not be self conscious or indecisive about it. If a criminal threatens or attacks you, a lawyers pretty words are not going to help you very much.
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