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Bike sizing

Old 03-18-20, 02:33 PM
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Bike sizing

Hi All, I am newbie to cycling and just recently bought a 2020 Jamis Renegade A1 in a Size 56cm with a 53mm fork. I and a 6'2 male and I feel fit really well and I'm comfortable on it. When doing some research and speaking with the bike salesmen he and the internet pointed out this bike may be a little small for me but I don't feel it. Is this normal or should I return the bike and get the bigger size? I rode a few other bikes size 58 but I felt like I was reaching and my back was hurting pretty quickly. I know they say go with what's comfortable but I want to see if anyone else has the same experience even in other bikes brands or have any advice.
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Old 03-18-20, 02:33 PM
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Bike sizing

Hi All, I am newbie to cycling and just recently bought a 2020 Jamis Renegade A1 in a Size 56cm with a 53mm fork. I and a 6'2 male and I feel fit really well and I'm comfortable on it. When doing some research and speaking with the bike salesmen he and the internet pointed out this bike may be a little small for me but I don't feel it. Is this normal or should I return the bike and get the bigger size? I rode a few other bikes size 58 but I felt like I was reaching and my back was hurting pretty quickly. I know they say go with what's comfortable but I want to see if anyone else has the same experience even in other bikes brands or have any advice.
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Old 03-18-20, 03:21 PM
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Given the sloping top tube, the 56 cm size fits more like a 58 cm bike with a horizontal top tube. Sounds to me as if the 56 cm is probably best for you
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Old 03-18-20, 03:46 PM
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Noone but you knows how you feel on the bike. And without pics (even with) it would be difficult (impossible?) to judge how the bike feels to you. It might tell if it was drastically oversize or undersized for you. Assuming the salesman saw you on the bike, was he judging how the bike fit with you on it, or just going by the mfrs. recommendations (which I've found are not always so great for diff body types).
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Old 03-18-20, 04:24 PM
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Not normally good practice to ask the same question multiple times
​​​​​​https://www.bikeforums.net/general-c...ke-sizing.html
I saw this one and wondered why my answer to the identical question wasn't here

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Old 03-19-20, 04:14 AM
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Riders perception of comfort is the answer. If you feel good on the chosen model and size, it is correct.

I am 5' 10 and ride a bike with a 56 cm top tube most comfortably. This allows a stem of 90mm which is my preference.
In my time, I have seen/ridden everything from 54-58 cm seat tube measurement bicycles meet this criterion.

My spouse is 5'6" and her legs are way longer than mine. She can easily straddle any of my bicycles with a lot of
room to spare, but she can barely reach the bars to ride.

So "stand over the top tube and lift the front wheel" is a pretty weak frame fit method.

There is no advantage to a bicycle to large for a given rider.
Besides, the top bar always wins!

As to returning the bike for sizing-unless there is a huge issue, you may have some difficulty doing this.
That may include having to raise the seatpost beyond minimum insertion line to get proper extension.

Every body is different- long legs short torso. Short legs long torso, and everything in between.
Every human malady has a different solution as well, bad back, bum knee, shoulder, hand or torso issues, etc.
There is also the matter of needs- comfort, performance and use.
Not to forget the individual - a spinner vs a chugger(cadence); core strength and more.

Your proportions should have been addressed by the LBS selling you a bicycle.They should have advised you
about your fit on a particular brand, model and size.
That is what they do or should be doing.

Some things can be changed - length and angle of the stem, width of bars, crank arm length.

Others can be adjusted - saddle position, angle and positioning of levers on the bars.
A really long or really short stem affects the handling of a bicycle.
A seat post out to far presents its own set of set of issues, including proper positioning between the rider and crank.
Not trying to be obvious, but as you raise the seat, you increase the seat to handlebar dimension.

Actually, the brands of similar components can make a difference.

What differentiates brands is not magic, as there are limits in the physical production of a bicycle frame.
The difference in brands, and even models is the geometry of the frame.
Longer top tube relative to seat tube, and the converse.
Tall head tube vs short. Frame angles. Long chainstays vs short.

Hope this helps.

rusty

BTW, if you want to make a LBS salesperson(at least one unfamiliar with correct fitting) squirm a bit, especially
if you are replacing or upgrading a bicycle you currently own, take the measurements of the various aspects of
your bicycle.
Take these measurements, along with a tape measure into the store and compare various models.
Think about what you like and don't like and ask how the particular bike will affect this/these issues.

Fit really is what separates a professional bicycle retailer from a basic bike store (big box or online brand)!
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Old 03-19-20, 04:33 AM
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I'm starting to prefer a bikes a step down from what is recommended for me. At 5'6", according to most guides, I should be on a 52cm. But I prefer a 50cm simply because I can have more room to adjust. I can raise the stem more for longer rides and tours, and lower it more for faster and shorter rides. I don't have as much flexibility with bikes supposedly my size.

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Old 03-19-20, 08:20 AM
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These people who said it was too small for you. Were you just talking with them or did they actually see you riding the bike?
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Old 03-19-20, 09:46 AM
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Best bike size for me changes according to the seasons. Although In my area we can ride most winter days, we don't ride as many miles so there is some loss of conditioning. As temps warm up and we begin doing longer rides, that loss can be felt in the legs and the neck for me. I usually raise the bars a bit and may use a shorter stem that has me more upright. A few weeks later, when back in "fighting shape", I prefer being a bit more stretched out, so the bars and longer stem go back up. In your case if the bike feels fine, ride it and don't look back. However, don't be surprised if in a year or two you might be wanting to be stretched out some. Most likely, if you make such a determination, a longer stem would work rather than a whole new bike.
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Old 03-19-20, 11:00 AM
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It could be okay...

...but, maybe too small. I was unable to easily locate the geometry chart for this Jamis Renegade family of frames. The sloping top tube is to your advantage, as this geometry may (may) allow for longer effective top tube lengths. I'm 6'1" with a long torso, and I typically have best success on traditional 58cm frames. But with compact frames, I can fit comfortably on a 56cm. So, some will depend on your proportions. If you were to have longer legs (relatively), you could get by with a shorter top tube.

What did the seller do to fit you on the bike? (Bike shop?) Did they place you on a trainer and observe your riding position? Did they increase saddle setback any? Longer stem? Do you have a return grace period from the shop?

Recommendation: Have someone who knows what they're doing evaluate your fit and adjust accordingly. Likely you can make this frame work. Or find out soonest and exchange for the next size up...
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Old 03-19-20, 05:08 PM
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Best thing to do is schedule an appointment with a bicycle fitter. Ideally look for someone who does a dynamic fit so you can feel changes in real time and get a more accurate fit. I personally have done Retül and I am way more comfortable on my bikes then I ever thought possible.

They can help make sure the bike is the right size and suggest different stems or setback seat posts or other things to help make you more comfortable on the bike. Plus with most fitters you can go back for follow ups and transfer the fit data to multiple bikes. Luckily mine has been perfect and I wouldn't change a thing though I do want to get the 10mm longer stem that was recommended to me.
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Old 03-19-20, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by skwiat20 View Post
Hi All, I am newbie to cycling and just recently bought a 2020 Jamis Renegade A1 in a Size 56cm with a 53mm fork.
A bit late to ask about fitting advice. You already own the bike. From your feedback, you appear to find this bike to be a good fit. You may have to fine tune a bit, but you are probably well set up from the geometry charts that I managed to find online. First bikes are often a learning experience. It took me over 25 years to find out that my 1972 Raleigh Professional was too big for me, but I enjoyed riding it so much that I was able to race with it and even win a national championship on it. Ride your bike. Make adjustments as needed. If you find that your needs exceed the adjustments, it will be time to look elsewhere. Give this first bike time, after all, it took me 27 years to figure out that my first good bike was too big for me, mostly because it was such a wonderful bike to ride that I didm.t worry if it was a perfect fit

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Old 03-20-20, 05:04 AM
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Are you satisfied with your position on the bike?

When the manufacturer's size chart shows I have a choice of sizes, I go with the smaller option. Even then, I generally end up with the seat post near the low end of its normal range and the stem in its lowest position. I typically flip the stem over so that it slopes downward so I can get the handlebars lower. I am aware of some fairly serious riders who throw away the size chart and go down a size or two just so they can get a larger drop from the seat to the handlebars.
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Old 03-20-20, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by friday1970 View Post
I'm starting to prefer a bikes a step down from what is recommended for me. At 5'6", according to most guides, I should be on a 52cm. But I prefer a 50cm simply because I can have more room to adjust. I can raise the stem more for longer rides and tours, and lower it more for faster and shorter rides. I don't have as much flexibility with bikes my size.
Yeah, I'm 5' 7" and find the same. I follow the sizing charts, but all my bikes have the stem in the lowest position. Perhaps the sizing charts are not as well calibrated for smaller riders. In order to get a decent drop from the seat to the handlebars, I end up flipping the stem over so that it slopes downward.
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Old 03-20-20, 05:24 AM
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The following images show the problem faced by smaller riders due to the tyranny of the 750C wheel standard.

The first bike belongs to GCN presenter Simon Richardson, who is 6' 0". Observe the drop from the seat to the handlebars. I vaguely recall Simon stating in one of the GCN videos that he chooses smaller frames than recommended by the sizing charts just so he can get the front end lower.


The second bike belongs to GCN presenter Emma Pooley, who is 5' 2". Again, observe the drop from the seat to the handlebars. Emma stated in a video about the bike that she opted to stick with 750C wheels rather than 650C because she wants to have wheels compatible with those offered by the neutral support mechanics during races.
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Old 03-20-20, 05:36 AM
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my bike is 56, very comfortable, no problems
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Old 03-20-20, 05:43 AM
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Merged duplicate threads.
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Old 03-20-20, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Sentionc View Post
my bike is 56, very comfortable, no problems
How tall are you?
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Old 03-20-20, 09:20 AM
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Without some relevant info, like your actual saddle height, nothing can be said about the size of your frame. Leg length varies a lot between people of the same height. Rider desires vary greatly. Some want a 2cm drop from the saddle to the bars and others want a 10cm drop. I buy a frame that will give me a 10cm saddle to bar drop with a -17 (horizontal) stem and no spacers. If I want to raise the bars by 2cm, I'll change to a -6 stem.

Neither of the pictures shown above show frames at their low limit of bar height, since one has some spacer and neither is using a -17 stem. At least one brand offers something like a -20 or -21.
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Old 03-20-20, 12:39 PM
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The prevalence of sloping top tube designs in the marketplace makes seat tube length much less relevant than it once was. Also seat tube can be measured center to center or center to top. This can result in inaccurate comparisons. Bottom line is that 'stack' and 'reach' are more useful parameters in 2020 for comparisons between bicycles. I personally prefer the look of bigger bikes. At 5'10" I am sometimes right on the line between a LG and a M. I'll take the LG in that case. If a 6'2" rider prefers a 56cm Jamis Renegade, who am I to argue. Nevertheless by EVERY criteria, the bike is undersized. Why are we dancing around this? Some things just are. If I were 6'2" I would be buying the 61cm version and calling it good. I 'might' downsize the (probably) 110mm stem to a 90mm, but I would make no other changes. Renegades also come in a 58cm size. I would run, not walk, back to the store and see if they will allow the change to a 58cm. After some experience is gained and fitness and flexibility improve the (necessarily) cramped ergos of the 56 might start to get annoying. That is too nice a bike to have to suffer with.
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Old 03-20-20, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
The prevalence of sloping top tube designs in the marketplace makes seat tube length much less relevant than it once was. Also seat tube can be measured center to center or center to top. This can result in inaccurate comparisons. Bottom line is that 'stack' and 'reach' are more useful parameters in 2020 for comparisons between bicycles. I personally prefer the look of bigger bikes. At 5'10" I am sometimes right on the line between a LG and a M. I'll take the LG in that case. If a 6'2" rider prefers a 56cm Jamis Renegade, who am I to argue. Nevertheless by EVERY criteria, the bike is undersized. Why are we dancing around this? Some things just are. If I were 6'2" I would be buying the 61cm version and calling it good. I 'might' downsize the (probably) 110mm stem to a 90mm, but I would make no other changes. Renegades also come in a 58cm size. I would run, not walk, back to the store and see if they will allow the change to a 58cm. After some experience is gained and fitness and flexibility improve the (necessarily) cramped ergos of the 56 might start to get annoying. That is too nice a bike to have to suffer with.
I suppose this is a function of the type of riding you do.

If your objective is to cruise about the countryside as comfortably as possible, your position will likely to be more upright, so you might as well get the bigger bike frame.

If your objective is to go as fast as you can, that requires getting aero, which requires getting your head lower and your back closer to horizontal, so you may need to get a smaller frame than recommended on the sizing chart in order to get the handlebars lower relative to the seat. If this creates a reach problem, you may need to get a longer stem.




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Old 03-20-20, 02:22 PM
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I'm old school and it's worked for me for 40 yrs. I start with inseam.
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Old 03-20-20, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I'm old school and it's worked for me for 40 yrs. I start with inseam.
Back in the 1990s (I'm old.), the bike shop would have me stand over a frame and check my crotch clearance. They would have me lift the handlebars until the top tube hit my crotch and check the distance the front wheel was off the floor. I vaguely recall the recommendation was one inch for road bikes and two inches for mountain bikes. Based on this, I usually was directed to 53 or 54 cm road frame. The recommendation I get these days based on stack and reach usually points me to a 51 or 52 cm frame. After riding the bike and tweaking my position, I generally find that I wouldn't want a larger frame.
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Old 03-21-20, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Fredo_Adagio View Post
Back in the 1990s (I'm old.), the bike shop would have me stand over a frame and check my crotch clearance. They would have me lift the handlebars until the top tube hit my crotch and check the distance the front wheel was off the floor. I vaguely recall the recommendation was one inch for road bikes and two inches for mountain bikes. Based on this, I usually was directed to 53 or 54 cm road frame. The recommendation I get these days based on stack and reach usually points me to a 51 or 52 cm frame. After riding the bike and tweaking my position, I generally find that I wouldn't want a larger frame.
I use the Greg LeMond - Cyrille Guimard formula to get frame size. I idea is to measure your inseam with only socks on and multiply that number by .665. This is done in metrics. For me that results in a 54 frame. From there you can ride a range of sizes. And, a theory is you can break this down to "Competitive", "Eddie" and "French" fits. Like you, I remember the days of lifting the TT up to your crotch to determine size.
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Old 03-21-20, 09:15 AM
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Handlebar width and stem length have a big impact on how a bike feels. I'm 6'0" and between sizes on charts for two bikes I bought online. First one was a 61cm and fits me well. Second one was a 58cm that i bought because 61cm was unavailable. I had to make a couple changes to the 58cm bike, but now it is great. Biggest problem was toe overlap, front tire hitting my toes when making tight turns at low speed; dangerous! Since it came with 37x700c gravel tires, I put a 32x700c cyclocross tire on the front, and the toe overlap is no longer an issue, rolling resistance is less, and I've got a spare rear tire. Bought a 42cm compact alloy drop handlebar to replace 44cm bars with a bigger drop, and now the bars feel great. Bought a 120mm alloy stem to replace the 90mm original, which felt twitchy, and now the bike fits me and my riding style. Stem and bars cost me maybe $35 at Random Bike Parts, and tire was a used one I already had. New bar tape was$13, and gave me the opportunity to wrap the top bar with old inner tube under bar tape (highly recommended).

So from my limited experience, you can tweak a frame one size too small from your ideal without great expense.
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