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Yelling from the passenger seat

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Yelling from the passenger seat

Old 03-27-20, 11:33 AM
  #26  
woodcraft
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Two points:

First, always take responsibility. if you choose to run a stop sign, own it. If someone yells, though .... disown it.

Which is point two---there will always be people complaining no matter what. Those people are generally idiots---but even if they have a valid point, it is their point. Accept what is true, and discard the emotion. Ride on. I generally agree. When i choose to break a traffic law, I Know I am doing it, and why. Sometimes i wait at lights just to not soil the reputation of cyclists in general, because the next rider that irate driver meets might get ta bad reaction engendered by my bad action.

Sometimes I don't. Ummm .... so lane-splitting in Cali is ... obeying the traffic laws, right?

I find most traffic laws are actually pretty decent. And most states (I have only investigate the uniform traffic code for about 2/3) have laws allowing bikes to take the lane, and such. I try not to make left turns, but I have been riding in traffic for fifty years and they haven't killed me yet .... so Something works (of course, some folks would say this proves that something is Not working. .... )


It's kind of a grey area- officially tolerated, but not in the code.

From DMV: "California law does not allow or prohibit motorcycles from passing other vehicles proceeding in the same direction within the same lane, a practice often called "lane splitting," "lane sharing" or "filtering.""
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Old 03-27-20, 11:34 AM
  #27  
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OK, so the one that annoys me is the three way intersection with a stoplight or three way stop sign, and I'm FRAP out of the traffic lane on the non-intersected side. There is literally no lane of vehicles crossing my path, so I take the position that I might as well be on the sidewalk and absolutely ignore the lights or signs. That's definitely a shout from someone who just loves their own voice.
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Old 03-27-20, 11:35 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
A stop sign is a stop stop sign. I live in Oregon and I still stop for stop signs. You were wrong and you blame the person who calls you on it
Why do you still stop for stop signs in Oregon if you can see you would have the right of way when you arrive? Is it a personal virtue thing or force of habit now?
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Old 03-27-20, 11:51 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Most of us would have done the same at that intersection---no cars, no need to stop. However, if I blow through a stop sign, I cannot complain if someone complains. I made the choice, I take the responsibility.
This is how I (try to) look at it, too.

Like you, though, a couple of times having someone call me out on a traffic infraction has made me upset. In my particular case, I've gotten upset because I felt guilty, not because of what the critic did. Also like you, I try pretty hard to ride cautiously, legally and courteously, so on the rare occasion when I consciously break the rules, that just exacerbates my feelings of guilt and makes me more likely to react badly to criticism.

I'm not saying that you are reacting the same way, I'm just describing what might go on in my own head in circumstances similar to yours, in case it might be helpful. If not, feel free to completely ignore my post.
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Old 03-27-20, 11:56 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
I tend to think to myself that if they off their fat ****s (sorry) and rode a bike,

they would treat stop signs the same as many of us do.

Plus if you slavishly stop at every one, drivers will be unhappy because you're holding up traffic.

This was done as a protest in SF after a crackdown on cyclists. Traffic backed up and drivers tore their hair.
Exactly. In my experience, the only thing that annoys motorists more than cyclists flouting traffic laws is cyclists strictly obeying them.
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Old 03-27-20, 12:11 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Two points:

First, always take responsibility. if you choose to run a stop sign, own it. If someone yells, though .... disown it.

Which is point two---there will always be people complaining no matter what. Those people are generally idiots---but even if they have a valid point, it is their point. Accept what is true, and discard the emotion. Ride on. I generally agree. When i choose to break a traffic law, I Know I am doing it, and why. Sometimes i wait at lights just to not soil the reputation of cyclists in general, because the next rider that irate driver meets might get ta bad reaction engendered by my bad action.

Sometimes I don't. Ummm .... so lane-splitting in Cali is ... obeying the traffic laws, right?

I find most traffic laws are actually pretty decent. And most states (I have only investigate the uniform traffic code for about 2/3) have laws allowing bikes to take the lane, and such. I try not to make left turns, but I have been riding in traffic for fifty years and they haven't killed me yet .... so Something works (of course, some folks would say this proves that something is Not working. .... )
I don't know about Cali. I don't follow Colombian law. However, in California lane splitting is not prohibited.
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Old 03-27-20, 12:28 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
or Arkansas
or Oregon

These three states now allow cyclist to treat stop signs like yield signs.
Next time tell them itís civil disobedience.
In Missouri it's illegal but, unless it causes an accident, it's a "no harm no foul" infraction. No fine, no points off your license.
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Old 03-27-20, 12:34 PM
  #33  
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The overwhelming majority of cyclists where I live in the Bay Area run stop signs when there are no cars around. I do it too, but I always yield the right of way to any cars who legally have it. Most cyclists that I see do this safely (i.e., they slow down, look both ways, etc.), but I occasionally see idiots who don't.

I got yelled at once by a driver when I ran a stop sign. He rolled down his window and shouted "Stop signs are for everyone!" I shrugged my shoulders. He wasn't wrong, obviously, but I don't like feeding other people's attempts at confrontation.

I was also once yelled at by someone in the passenger seat of a passing car who shouted "Move over!" on a narrow, winding road. I was already about as over to the right as I could be - I wasn't hogging the lane at all - so I'm not sure what this imbecile was thinking.
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Old 03-27-20, 12:47 PM
  #34  
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Fair's fair. I've offered a couple acquaintances the opportunity to meet me at a four way stop intersection of their choice. I'll give them a dollar for every car that makes a full stop if they'll give me a dollar for every one that doesn't. Nobody has ever wanted to take me up on that.
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Old 03-27-20, 02:23 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Fair's fair. I've offered a couple acquaintances the opportunity to meet me at a four way stop intersection of their choice. I'll give them a dollar for every car that makes a full stop if they'll give me a dollar for every one that doesn't. Nobody has ever wanted to take me up on that.

This is one of those dumb arguments I hear from drivers--"cars don't run red lights". Yeah, right, they invented the delayed green as some sort of joke, right?
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Old 03-27-20, 02:36 PM
  #36  
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In January I was ticketed for slow rolling a right turn at a 4-way stop with no traffic other than a single car behind me, which I saw in my mirror but couldn't otherwise identify.

It was a cop.

Later, reviewing my video, I realized he'd been shadowing me for a mile, waiting for me to make a mistake. He saw me come to complete stops where appropriate, because he was directly behind me. But he had a quota to fill on the last day of the month and pounced the instant I made one mistake -- which, technically, was outside his jurisdiction, on a street boundary shared with the larger main city.

I gave him the usual Idaho Stop explanation. He listened politely, and ticketed me anyway. No drama. But at least he heard my rationale.

I've been hit several times by cars, as a cyclist, motorcyclists, pedestrian and driver. The most dangerous place by far is an intersection. I've been rear-ended many times, usually at slow speed. But even a slow speed bump on a bike can result in serious injuries.

And the offending negligent driver always says the same stupid damned thing: "I didn't see you!"

Right. I'm directly in front of you at a stop sign intersection, lighted up like a Christmas tree. Didn't see me. Drivers who spout such BS should have their licenses revoked.

So if the only vehicle in sight is behind me, and the car is either approaching too fast or tailgating, I'm still gonna slow-and-roll through a stop sign intersection after checking for oncoming traffic from directly ahead and both sides. A $300 ticket is still cheaper than the thousands of dollars lost being struck by an uninsured or under-insured motorist. Texas liability insurance is minimal, half of which goes to your attorney. When I was struck and seriously injured in 2001 I was lucky to get $5,000, which didn't come close to covering my medical expenses. I was on a cane for the next 14 years, unable to work a full time job. More than a decade lost to a negligent, under-insured driver.

I don't blow through stop sign intersections. I've always slow-and-rolled. Which is why I don't join most fast roadie group rides, because they do blow heedlessly through intersections. So every "no-drop" ride turns into a grudge-fest with most of the group waiting impatiently for the stragglers who actually do approach intersections cautiously. Not worth the aggravation.

For now -- because I'm on 90-day probation -- I am coming to complete stops, foot-down when necessary, in the jurisdiction where I was ticketed. And I'm nervous as a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs, whenever I see a car behind me. Once I'm outside that ticket-trap's jurisdiction I resume my usual slow-and-roll practice.

Do whatever you believe works best for you in your area. And keep some spare cash in the bank and an attorney on speed dial for when you get caught. It's still cheaper than being clobbered from behind by a negligent driver.
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Old 03-27-20, 06:27 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
Funny flip side. I got a compliment from a cop for not running a red light. He said that I was the first cyclist he has seen that waited for a red light.

To the OP...I am a little disturbed you ran a 4 way at "cruising" speed. I've been almost leveled by other cyclist running stop signs.
That reminds me of a joke about two car drivers.

One driver is driving a car with a passenger in it. He's driving at a good speed and comes to a red light and blows right through it.

Passenger yells at him: "you just went through a red light!"

Driver: "I know. Don't worry. My brother does it all the time."

They go a few more blocks and there's another red light facing them and the driver blows through it too.

Passenger yells: " You did it again!"

Driver: "Don't worry! My brother does it all the time."

This happens at a number of consecutive red lights. then they come to agreen light and the driver slams on the brakes and the car skids to a stop before going into the intersection.

Passenger: "Are you crazy? You had a green light! why'd you slam on the brakes?"

Driver: "In case my brother was coming to the red light."

Cheers
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Old 03-27-20, 07:43 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Doug64 View Post
A stop sign is a stop stop sign. I live in Oregon and I still stop for stop signs. You were wrong and you blame the person who calls you on it
Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
Why do you still stop for stop signs in Oregon if you can see you would have the right of way when you arrive? Is it a personal virtue thing or force of habit now?
I stop at stop signs because I teach bike safety to 5th graders, and I don't want kids seeing me "blow" through stop signs. We are going to teach them, if we have any classes this spring, to use the stop arm signal and stop. We will explain the Idaho stop to them, and discuss how to use it when they gain skills.Stopping and signaling will be easier and safer when they are learning to ride in traffic. It is also a force of habit

Last edited by Doug64; 03-27-20 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 03-27-20, 08:48 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Cheez View Post
...God is calling us....
Checked with Apollo, and the switchboard at Delphi... no calls made....
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Old 03-27-20, 10:29 PM
  #40  
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Imagine you're driving on an empty road in the middle of Kansas. You're coming up to a 4-way stop, and there's not a car in sight in any direction. The speed limit is 50 mph. THree questions:
1) How fast are you going?
2) What do you do at the stop sign?
3) How fast are you going after the stop sign?

I've asked this question a hundred times in a training class I used to teach. Answers range from
50/0/50
90/75/90
What kind of car am I driving?

It really doesn't have much to do with the vehicle.

The car passenger and their response - that had everything to do with their baggage about your vehicle. Let it go.
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Old 03-27-20, 11:27 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by billridesbikes View Post
or Arkansas
or Oregon

These three states now allow cyclist to treat stop signs like yield signs.
Next time tell them itís civil disobedience.
In California I see cyclists running through stop signs in front of police cars and they don't do anything.
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Old 03-28-20, 06:06 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tgenec86 View Post
No cars, no stop... Been doing it all my life, don't plan on stopping. But I look three times to be absolutely sure. Some bad choices don't get do-overs. As far as self-righteous drivers, ignoring them utterly - not even taking my hands off the bars or looking at them is enormously satisfying since they don't get the reaction they seem to crave in order to validate themselves.
A few of the responses amount to, "if they want to be angry at me, let them, it doesn't matter once they drive away." But it does, in terms of the potential for that anger being vented against other cyclists, or just against others.
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Old 03-28-20, 06:17 AM
  #43  
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Your big mistake is letting this bother you so much that you have to post it here. Mellow out, dude.
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Old 03-28-20, 11:14 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by noimagination View Post
This is how I (try to) look at it, too.

Like you, though, a couple of times having someone call me out on a traffic infraction has made me upset. In my particular case, I've gotten upset because I felt guilty, not because of what the critic did. Also like you, I try pretty hard to ride cautiously, legally and courteously, so on the rare occasion when I consciously break the rules, that just exacerbates my feelings of guilt and makes me more likely to react badly to criticism.

I'm not saying that you are reacting the same way, I'm just describing what might go on in my own head in circumstances similar to yours, in case it might be helpful. If not, feel free to completely ignore my post.
Yes. You make a valid point. It probably created a feeling of guilt knowing that I predominantly obey traffic rules. If she had, instead, yelled "Go Man Go" it would have boosted my ego and made me feel like a pro.
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Old 03-28-20, 01:36 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by hrdknox1 View Post
Yes. You make a valid point. It probably created a feeling of guilt knowing that I predominantly obey traffic rules. If she had, instead, yelled "Go Man Go" it would have boosted my ego and made me feel like a pro.
even though she could have been telling to go far away and never come back .....
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Old 03-28-20, 01:43 PM
  #46  
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I don't think civilians should be calling out people for breaking traffic laws, unless that particular law breaker has directly put you in danger at the time when they were breaking the law... I roll through stop signs early in the morning when there isn't a lot of traffic and I see a lot of drivers doing the same thing.
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Old 03-28-20, 01:56 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by hrdknox1 View Post
I am very cautious when riding, and predominantly obey traffic rules. The other day on my way back from a 50 miler I was at cruising speed and didn't stop at a stop sign. It was at a 4 way stop intersection and there were no vehicles in sight. Ten seconds later a vehicle passes and the passenger sticks her head out the window and yells "Your supposed to stop at the stop sign". I was about 6 miles from finishing an enjoyable ride when this ruined it....why is she interfering with my ride when I didn't interfere with her driving (her car was no where near me when I blew the stop sign). If there ever was a time for me to pedal 50mph, this was it.....I wanted so badly to catch up with the car and tell her to mind her business. Was I wrong for not stopping when there are no vehicles in sight, or was she wrong for telling me that I am supposed to?
Both of you were in the wrong...She was wrong for calling you out for breaking the traffic law and you were wrong for getting offended and upset when she told you that you broke the law. The worse part was when you wanted to catch up with her and get into a roadside argument. If you break the law then you need to own up to it and take responsibility for your actions...Don't forget that we have a pandemic going around which is highly infectious, so it's best to keep your mouth shut , keep your distance and not get into arguments with strangers.
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Old 03-29-20, 07:37 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by hrdknox1 View Post
I am very cautious when riding, and predominantly obey traffic rules. The other day on my way back from a 50 miler I was at cruising speed and didn't stop at a stop sign. It was at a 4 way stop intersection and there were no vehicles in sight. Ten seconds later a vehicle passes and the passenger sticks her head out the window and yells "Your supposed to stop at the stop sign". I was about 6 miles from finishing an enjoyable ride when this ruined it....why is she interfering with my ride when I didn't interfere with her driving (her car was no where near me when I blew the stop sign). If there ever was a time for me to pedal 50mph, this was it.....I wanted so badly to catch up with the car and tell her to mind her business. Was I wrong for not stopping when there are no vehicles in sight, or was she wrong for telling me that I am supposed to?
Another, I did not need to follow the rules, but the cagers must...
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Old 03-30-20, 11:01 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
Funny flip side. I got a compliment from a cop for not running a red light. He said that I was the first cyclist he has seen that waited for a red light.

To the OP...I am a little disturbed you ran a 4 way at "cruising" speed. I've been almost leveled by other cyclist running stop signs.
Did he pull you over to tell you that? :-)

Originally Posted by tagaproject6 View Post
Virtue signaling is strong on this thread
No doubt. I pretty much never roll through a stoplight (where I'm at stoplights are only at very serious intersections), but a stop sign on a tiny side road out in the middle of nowhere with great visibility on all sides and nobody around? All bets are off. My rule is I'll do what seems safest. When I'm interacting with traffic I'll try to do whatever is most predictable and what most drivers would expect, make eye contact with drivers, do the little head nod, whatever. Whatever's safest for all concerned is what I worry about, avoiding getting pulled over by cops on my bike is a very close second, and earning brownie points with The Man comes in at a distant third.

That being said, I ride most often in some relatively rural (suburb of the suburbs as it were) territory, with some more city-like riding where I'm much stricter on my adherence to the traffic laws, and some straight up city riding as part of group rides, where I'm very strict on traffic laws. I've been on some group rides where parts of the group have blown red lights at intersections in situations where I was absolutely appalled by the decision, and personally stopped. Some cyclists really do take that cavalier attitude to an extreme.
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Old 03-30-20, 11:12 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by hrdknox1 View Post
I am very cautious when riding, and predominantly obey traffic rules. The other day on my way back from a 50 miler I was at cruising speed and didn't stop at a stop sign. It was at a 4 way stop intersection and there were no vehicles in sight. Ten seconds later a vehicle passes and the passenger sticks her head out the window and yells "Your supposed to stop at the stop sign". I was about 6 miles from finishing an enjoyable ride when this ruined it....why is she interfering with my ride when I didn't interfere with her driving (her car was no where near me when I blew the stop sign). If there ever was a time for me to pedal 50mph, this was it.....I wanted so badly to catch up with the car and tell her to mind her business. Was I wrong for not stopping when there are no vehicles in sight, or was she wrong for telling me that I am supposed to?
This ruined your ride? Sheesh.

A couple months ago, as I was coming back into town after a long ride, an old minivan passed me - a dude leaned out of the passenger window and yelled "F--K you, you f---ing f----t!"

Actually, that didn't even ruin my ride. I really wanted to catch up and ask the guy how he can determine someone's sexual orientation just by glancing out of a passing car. That's some talent. I also wanted to give him a long, tight hug, and maybe a wet kiss. I think he needed it. I think he wanted it.
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