fishboat

With due respect..while some more exotic steel-frame examples are shown in this thread..they aren't the bread and butter, excellent quality, steel bikes that people refer to and discuss on a regular basis. Great quality/riding new bikes of any material are expensive, however on the used market there's plenty of options in excellent steel bikes available and one doesn't need to seek out old Italian frames to find them, although that's one option. Look at a dozen or so pages of the CV thread

eBay / CraigsList finds - "Are you looking for one of these!?" Part II
or
Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos

and you'll see many very nice older & more modern steel rides at modest prices. A close to me example..I have an Acer-Mex Windsor-Pro that I bought new in 1979 that would fetch maybe a few hundred dollars on the used market. Columbus XL tubing, Campy components head to toe..wonderful ride. I rented a $3K+ carbon Spec Roubaix a couple years ago for a day...hands down, given the choice of one or the other..I'd take my Windsor for the more comfortable-fun ride it offers.

Modest priced good steel bikes may take a little more user-effort(primarily knowledge and possibly component swaps) than walking into a bike shop full of aluminum and carbon and saying "I'll take the blue one..", but they are readily available. For a no-brainer modern component (STI shifting) option..pick up a Lemond steel bike from the late 90's through 2008. Reynolds 853 or Platinum OX tubing with 105 or better components for $500-$1000. Or for $1200..go with a titanium model.

RGMN

There are times I wish I still had mine. I had one of the same vintage (mine was from 1978), rode the hell out of it and it kept coming back for more. It still rates as one of the more memorable bikes I've owned. But college was pretty rough on it and I was using it as a utility bike than the road machine it was. It finally disappeared at a car race where I had been using it to get around the paddock.

About 4 years ago it turned up halfway across the country from me. The race team next us had accidentally loaded it in their trailer with their other bikes and took it home to Atlanta. One of their mechanics realized it wasn't theirs when they unloaded the trailer. Almost 30 years later he found me and asked it I wanted it back. He even offered to ship it to me. He apologized profusely as he was the one who loaded it with their bikes. It had been hanging in his garage for most of that time and the pictures showed it to be in a pretty sorry state with the frame heavily rusted. I told hm that I had written if off long ago and to do with it as he pleased.

fishboat

Nice story. Good on him for remembering you and offering to get it back to you. Sadly, that kind of character is getting harder to find.

I have more modern equivalent or higher-end bikes, steel and titanium with STI shifting, but I can't say that any of them ride/handle any better than the Windsor. Though I do like the STI shifting over friction shifting on the downtube.

Johnk3

Yes, you are correct. There are lots of great used values in American made used bikes out there. But, the point is that all of them are most likely handmade of good quality tubing. The quote I was responding to talked of buying new bikes at Bikes Direct for less than $600. That is a different animal.

fishboat

I just wanted it generally clear that premium steel bikes are far from expensive, if you know what you want and where to look. They're readily available..and on sale relative to what they cost new. A couple Lemonds I have ran $3-$4k new (in today's dollars) and I picked them up in recent years for about 25 cents on the dollar.

Expectations would be moderately low for any(material) new bike at a $600 price point(today**). Certainly not the basis on which broad generalizations could be made about carbon, aluminum, or steel. Although, $600 today on the used market can get you a VERY nice steel bike.

**Once upon a time, $600 could get you a SOTA bike..back when steel was the only option. I paid $600 for my Windsor in '79 ($2100 in today's dollars).

Johnk3

I bought my Simoncini in the early 80's for about $750 as I recall, but that was a fair amount to pay for a bike back then. The very nice steel bikes you can buy now for $600 used, would be expensive if they were new because they were all handmade..

guy153

That does seem to be true of quite a lot of the ready made steel frames around these days. But Reynolds and Columbus do supply tubes in the narrower diameters in the higher end alloys.

I think 1 inch TT, 1 1/8 DT 0.8/0.6/0.8 wall is a really sweet ride in about a 55cm frame size. Don't know who makes that these days though besides custom builders and maybe some Italian manufacturers.

adlai

I based my statement off of this: Genesis Volare, Reynolds 853 frame.

Johnk3

Aluminum is light but not nearly as strong as steel, so the aluminum bike tubes have to be quite large and thick to handle the weight and stress. They are also able to be molded into non-round shapes. The larger amount of metal needed for an aluminum frame often cancels out its low weight.
Modern high end steel tubing is larger diameter because it is very thin and the larger diameter makes it much stronger. The Columbus XCr seat tube is 33 mm in diameter and is triple butted at 0.65 / 0.45 / 0.65 mm, but it is quite light. Aside from that, there is still a difference in handling because of the nature of the material independent of size, shape and thickness.

adlai

In all honesty, of the steel bikes I have ridden my favorite is a low end steel bike that has tiny tubes. It isn't the lightest, but I really like how the thin tubes feel while handling the bicycle.

slowgo

Got my Cinelli on the stand...waiting on the crankset and FD to come in next week.

guy153

Yes that's the kind of thing that's a bit overbuilt IMO. It's Reynolds 853 yet according to Genesis's website the weight is 2.45kg with a carbon fork, so probably about 2.15kg for the frame. My 631 frame with 1" top-tube is only 1.3kg. It's quite a bit of extra weight but considering that it's also oversize, a lot of extra stiffness. Why did they use such large diameter and evidently also quite thick walls, especially when 853 is so strong anyway? Maybe it's better for sprinting, but who buys a steel bike for that? It's more like a touring frame only with short chainstays and no braze-ons.

pbass

Yep, I own two! A Kona and a Surly. I'm a "steel-only" guy. Had my share of harsh aluminum rides, and I've never been drawn to CF (I'd rather have something custom/steel built with that kind of $ outlay).

kaiserschmarrn

What about, as an example, a Peugeot PRN10 with down tube shifters made '76-'78? That is what I have. I do prefer those bikes, but I did just buy a new road bike.

Danny

kaiserschmarrn

I have an old Peugeot and think that I know what you mean. My frame/bike always seemed "live", reacting to every move I made and to the road. My new bike is aluminum. It is a nice bike because it has newer features, but I like the old classic, steel bikes.

Danny

DorkDisk

For my first new bike build in 27 years, I am going steel. Crabon always tempts me but damn I'm a sucker for skinny tubes.

mstateglfr 

1- 1300g for your 631 frame- wat? Is it a size 38cm frame, have no brazeons, and also not have a brake bridge or chainstay bridge?

2- there is a noticeable trend that production 853 frames from English brands are not light due to the fatigue testing the frames must pass. Heavier 853 is used, even DZB 853 downtubes are used on gravel road frames.
Actually, 853, 735, and 631 built frames designed by British brands seem to consistently employ this design approach.

guy153

Sorry, my bad. It was 1600g, minus fork and before painting. I was forgetting whether I had subtracted the fork or not. It's 1600g without the fork. I thought that was pretty light so weighed some water on the kitchen scales I used and they checked out. It's 55.5cm square, has both bridges and all the braze-ons you need for gears, brakes and a couple of bottles.

rydabent

To me the lugged brazed steel frames with down tube shifters of the 80s were some of the most simple and beautiful bikes ever built. Some like my one son's even has the brake cables under the handle bar wrapping, so it is really totally clean of cables flapping in the wind. There is only the short cable guide run back at the RD showing.

kaiserschmarrn

I am keeping an eye out locally for another vintage bike, and this vintage of bicycle might be the ultimate based on your description. The new bikes are great, but the vintage ig bikes you mention, and just prior, I think, are the ultimate in classic beauty. The new bikes just lack that kind of class. To be honest, after riding the new brake lever shifters, I may still prefer the simpler downtube mounted lever shifters.

Danny

Oneder

I think steel is great. I would never waste money on an aluminum or carbon bike they just feel like garbage to me when I am riding. I think titanium is good, too, my neighbor has ti and it is a great bike, but it is also quite expensive. The 'mainstream' wants to cheap out and sell you complete garbage, or sell you overly expensive and impractical fad items. Last thing it wants to sell you something quality and reasonably priced that will last your whole life. Everything is like that, not just bikes.

slowgo

Is it still necessary to treat modern steel frames, like the Cinelli Vigorelli I am building up, with frame saver for corrosion resistance?

Bill in VA

Necessary? That depends on how you will be using and storing it. I store my bikes inside and do not rain ride, so maybe not for me. It may already have been treated.

All uncoated steel will oxidize to some degree, and that is a very nice frame, so personally, I would treat it. And not just because I keep stuff I like for a long time.

I have been a true rustophobic since owning 3 1960's VW Beetles with rust under the running boards

So says the man who still has his 1973 Peugeot UO-8 with NO rust.

slowgo

I’ll figured it couldn’t hurt so got some and sprayed it. Waiting on the crankset and FD that will be here mid next week to finish it up.

adlai

More observations: high end steel has to be thin and skinny. Aluminum is less dense and can be molded into more shapes while steel generally is circular. Thin and skinny means prone to dents. So in a way more fragile.

alu makes more sense from an industry perspective. More shapes can be marketed to people better. Corrosion resistant. Fewer dents and warranty problems.

also, the difference between alu and steel is subtle. Take the weight savings from alu, and install a sprung saddle, and it handily beats steel for comfort.