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Shimano Claris is an intentional gimping for market segmentation

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Shimano Claris is an intentional gimping for market segmentation

Old 04-15-20, 03:44 PM
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adlai
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Shimano Claris is an intentional gimping for market segmentation

So I just spent some time on a Claris.

It works, but it does not feel as crisp and precise as a tiagra or sora.

But thing is that I'm pretty sure that the difference is that a "clickiness" is intentionally engineered into higher end products and that it is more for making an impression, akin to fake engine noises in cars, than for actual shifting precision, though that may exist as well to a degree.

And some of the plastics used feel noticably cheap with a sharp edge that screams cheap.

But I'd bet that the difference in costs between plastics used is five cents at most. It is annoying though not getting the clicking feedback that I expect from bikes.
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Old 04-15-20, 04:27 PM
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Claris is perfectly fine, my Allez has Claris and I have a mix of Sram Rival and Force on my 2x11 CX bike and I really don't notice any perceptible difference in quality of shifting between the 2 bikes and I would happily recommend a claris level model to anyone starting out.
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Old 04-15-20, 04:30 PM
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There are differences in bushings and cones in different quality levels of Shimano components. Do your Ulegra jockey wheels use caramic bushngs while Claris uses steel, or perhaps even simple plastic?

Saving a couple bucks here, a couple bucks there does add up in manufacturing cost. However, I do admit that it is a pretty extreme policy to intentionally make cheaper quality parts
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Old 04-15-20, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Saving a couple bucks here, a couple bucks there does add up in manufacturing cost. However, I do admit that it is a pretty extreme policy to intentionally make cheaper quality parts
seems acceptable to me. Different price points for different budgets. Kind of like a Honda being cheaper than an Acura. I drive a crv by the way.
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Old 04-15-20, 04:40 PM
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Why did I click on this thread?
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Old 04-15-20, 04:52 PM
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257 roberts
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Why did I click on this thread?
I click on this thread also....you just didn't hear it lol
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Old 04-15-20, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post

But thing is that I'm pretty sure that the difference is that a "clickiness" is intentionally engineered into higher end products and that it is more for making an impression, akin to fake engine noises in cars, than for actual shifting precision, though that may exist as well to a degree.
Campagnolo did that in 2009 with the 10 cog Ultrashift index cam when the better groups moved to 11 and had to release a replacement due to customer dissatisfaction with weak detents.

And some of the plastics used feel noticably cheap with a sharp edge that screams cheap.
In 2009, the bottom 2 Campagnolo groups came with a 10 cog index cam plus front ratchet, and the top 4 11. The three highest groups had carbon fiber brake levers and the more expensive 10 speed group offered that as an option. The top group had lighter rear ratchets that saved 7g per pair. Otherwise the brake/shift levers were identical except for cosmetics.

(I was surprised to discover carbon fiber brake levers are really nice because they don't feel cold in cool weather)

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 04-15-20 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 04-15-20, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 257 roberts View Post
I click on this thread also....you just didn't hear it lol
Were you using a claris branded mouse. Did it not make the click you were expecting it to?
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Old 04-15-20, 05:54 PM
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adlai
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Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
Claris is perfectly fine, my Allez has Claris and I have a mix of Sram Rival and Force on my 2x11 CX bike and I really don't notice any perceptible difference in quality of shifting between the 2 bikes and I would happily recommend a claris level model to anyone starting out.
If I weren't already used to sora/tiagra, I wouldn't mind, but it is noticable.

I think I'm going to swap it out for Sensah
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Old 04-15-20, 07:24 PM
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I don't like or recommend anything below tiagra which seemed to get an upgrade in overall quality with the 4600 10sp group but even the 9sp group wasn't that bad. Sora has never been that good but passable for an entry level bike. My kid's road bike has Claris and it's just awful, even with jagwire housing and Shimano cables it doesn't shift well. Only thing that made it worth it was the bike only cost me 150 new in the box.
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Old 04-15-20, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Why did I click on this thread?
The same reason the OP started it, we're getting bored and punchy these days.
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Old 04-16-20, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 257 roberts View Post
I click on this thread also....you just didn't hear it lol
Elitist!
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Old 04-16-20, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JayKay3000 View Post
Were you using a claris branded mouse. Did it not make the click you were expecting it to?

My set up is so fancy, I use an actual live mouse with a brain implant. No clicks, just the occasional squeak.
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Old 04-16-20, 08:35 PM
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adlai
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
I don't like or recommend anything below tiagra which seemed to get an upgrade in overall quality with the 4600 10sp group but even the 9sp group wasn't that bad. Sora has never been that good but passable for an entry level bike. My kid's road bike has Claris and it's just awful, even with jagwire housing and Shimano cables it doesn't shift well. Only thing that made it worth it was the bike only cost me 150 new in the box.
The old sora never felt cheap. It just felt different. And its shifting action was different.

Claris feels cheap. Maybe if this were my first bike I wouldn't mind.
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Old 04-17-20, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by 257 roberts View Post
I click on this thread also....you just didn't hear it lol
I've kitted out my laptop with a mid-level Dell mouse. It has a composite plastic body with lightweight silicon skid pads. It is wired vice the better wireless models, so there is a flexibility limit without a discernible penalty in performance. The ergonomics are refined and responsive, with a rubberized scroll wheel and distinctive "click" to both the right and left full-length finger switches. The click is tactile as well as audible, and the feel is confidence inspiring. Overall, I'd rate it as a "best value" in the category.
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Old 04-17-20, 07:00 AM
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Mo’ clicky, mo’ better.
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Old 04-17-20, 04:37 PM
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Tourney TZ is trash, Claris is ok
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Old 04-17-20, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
The same reason the OP started it, we're getting bored and punchy these days.
The problem with that is that it's hard to punch people from 6 feet away...
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Old 04-17-20, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post
If I weren't already used to sora/tiagra, I wouldn't mind, but it is noticable.

I think I'm going to swap it out for Sensah
I assume you have not used Sensah before? I have, and the only good thing I have to say is that Alie-express gave me my money back after I sent them pictures....

Other than that, I assume it must be raining or the paths are blocked otherwise. Because why else would we have a thread discussing that the more expensive lines of a manufacturer are better than the cheaper ones? Not many manufacturers create 12 different product lines at different prices, but with the exact same quality and prices. There is a parallel thread on the car forum complaining that a Toyota Yaris is much less refined than a Lexus.
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Old 04-18-20, 12:05 AM
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I understand the need for differentiation, but I would agree that there is too much of it. I would also agree that some of it is willful. There is absolutely no reason for Deore or Tiagra to be 10 speed, nor is there any reason for 8 speed to still be available except as maintenance parts. Still, bikes have been like this for a long, long time. There’s always the plastic level, and the steel level, and the aluminum level, and the carbon fiber and titanium level.

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Old 04-18-20, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by adlai View Post
If I weren't already used to sora/tiagra, I wouldn't mind, but it is noticable.

I think I'm going to swap it out for Sensah
Check out microshift, I don't always think they get the credit they deserve. I put a set on my daughter's bike since they make an actual short reach and will be getting an 8sp set for my son's, they are probably a tiagra level for lever feel and the design is one I like. I'll be picking up a set of 3x9 to convert a tandem to drop bars since 100.00 is reasonable for shifters though I've found them on sale cheaper.
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Old 04-18-20, 01:31 AM
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I have Microshift on one bike. It feels good and works well.
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