Derailleur destroyed
 

Hi everyone - I have an 18 month old Giant Cypress DX that had some spokes come off the hub - I was running late and had to go to work and rode anyway. As I was shifting down, the derailleur came completely apart. Like it was hit by a truck. I had the wheel re trued a year earlier (I am 6'6", 338lbs) where the bike shop guy made a comment that I was a big guy and you know this happens, I asked why they sold me a bike that may not support me then (that was my third and last bike I will buy there)? Anyway, I need to get it road worthy again - what rear wheel should I be getting? Something that will hold me structurally. I only ride on hard surfaces - the only "banging" the bike does is sidewalk to road bumps.

I will try to attach pics.

Thanks!

I would suggest having a local builder build you a custom rear wheel.

At one point when I got back on the bike I was near 300 lbs. I found a cheap rear wheel built for a tandem that did great for me until I was able to take the weight off and go back to my good wheels.

Your “good wheels” obviously are not good enough. I’d get a new rear wheel built, a touring wheel, 36 spokes, double butted, hand built. And stop riding off curbs.

Sounds like the derailleur hit the spokes. Or, maybe, you shifted too hard and skipped too many cogs?

I agree the bike is not meant for someone of your size. At a bare minimum I would do as others have suggested, handbuilt 36 spoke (though the tandem wheel sounds better) wheel. I would also have a front built.

If you start looking at new bikes, I suggest looking at the Surly Troll. Yes, it is more expensive but it would better suit your needs. On the Giant you are going to keep replacing parts and it will start to add up, then the Troll would be a more attractive venture.

A wheel built for tandem service would be a great investment

Question regarding the comment about having the wheel trued. I'm not sure I understand what having the wheel trued a year ago has to do with you riding the bike with broken spokes now. Truing wheels is part of riding bicycles. I weigh less than 150 pounds, never abuse my bikes or ride up or down curbs and I true my wheels several times/year. I do this myself which some don't want to do and probably if I had to pay someone to do it would do it less but I still don't understand your point.

I think you are looking at two different problems. First, the wheel is inadequate. It is only a 32 spoke wheel with 2.0mm spokes. That’s not a very strong wheel even for someone a hundred pounds less than you. Your size...height...also puts more stress on the wheels than someone shorter. Your long legs put down a lot of power. That’s a lot of stress on the spokes and those spokes aren’t the best. As others have said, you should look into either having a wheel built or built one yourself. Go to at least a 36 spoke hub and use a spoke like the DT Swiss Alpine III. It has a thicker head and is stronger. Go read this article for details. The spokes are available through Quality Bicycle Products (QBP) so if you have a shop build it, they can get the spokes because QBP is the major wholesaler in the US. I build all my wheels with this spoke and have had 20 years of success with them.

The other problem is probably unrelated to the wheel problem. I suspect that your derailer hanger is bent. It allowed the derailer to hit the spokes. The replaceable hanger should have broken before the derailer got damaged. But stuff happens. On a positive note, the hanger is meant to break before the frame does.

I don’t agree that the bike isn’t made for your weight. The rear wheel isn’t adequate but the bike itself is fine. Nor has the shop done you a disservice. The manufacturer and the bike culture of minimizing weight at the expense of strength has but not the bike shop. Work with them and see if they can get you a better wheel. QBP will build a wheel in just about any configuration you want. It won’t be cheap...starting at about $150... but you can have one that is strong.

Second the Alpine III spokes.

+1 on spoke count-- 36 is the way to go.

They probably sold you the bike because you were looking at a cheap bike and the Giant Cypress is a cheap bike. They may have recommended new wheels, I certainly would but they may not have because again cheap bike. A lot of folks aren't going to try and sell something that will cost money to someone not looking to spend much money. The shop probably is not at fault here. Most shops wouldn't have many if any bikes for really big and tall folks unless that is something they specialized in.

As people have said a handbuilt wheel by a professional with quality parts is more likely to support your weight than a cheaper machine built wheel that comes stock on a low cost bike. Typically a handbuilt wheel shouldn't break spokes unless a severe accident has happened and shouldn't need much if any truing. However any wheel will probably need a lot of adjustment if you are jumping off of curbs as a heavier weight rider. Wheels that see bigger hits especially on harder surfaces are going to have more issues than if you rode more sensibly and heavier riders put more strain on the system.

If you do break a spoke or multiple spokes and ride like that you will have very big problems like you did. The wheel true a year ago didn't cause the issue, riding on broken spokes did. Also shifting poorly can cause issues and one a commuter bike that is quite common. Commuting tends to take a harder toll on the bikes and without regular maintenance every six months or sooner especially on the cheaper bikes, they can see all sorts of issues.

If you are in the market for a new bike I would check out ZinnCycles or DirtySixer they both specialize in bikes for bigger and taller riders. If you are interested in keeping your current bike I would reach out to Bill Mould and have him build you a set of wheels. He built up my touring bike wheels and they have been fantastic.

In a new bike I would ideally look at a bike with thru-axles and hydraulic disc brakes on a good expedition level touring frame. I know for sure I would want the handbuilt wheels probably on something like the DT Swiss Hybrid 350 hubs or White Industries XMR hubs with DT Swiss Alpine III or Sapim Strong spokes and Locking brass nipples laced to 36h Velocity Atlas, NoBS or Dyad or Sun Single Rhynolite XLs Rims. The reason for all that is strength and reliability but also versatility.

IMO any wheel you get should have a Shimano hub, since you're likely to need the strength afforded by their stressed member design. Almost every other hub aside from cheap Alex and Joytech hubs puts the drive side axle bearing inboard of the cogs, which is just carnage waiting to happen under your weight.

I don't know how that bike got you around the block. LOL Bike companies are getting dumber every year. Sad thing is, these bikes are selling like icecream in Florida.
Defailleurs just don't like weight. The only bikes built for weight are expedition tour bikes with a Rohloff14 and Dutch 3 speeds.

There's been 3 similar threads lately for broken spokes and wheels.
https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...l#post21403843

What???

Derailleurs are not weight bearing, so I'm not sure what one's weight has to do with their usability or durability. Cycommute addressed this - the derailleur likely got pulled into the spokes due to either a bent hanger, operator error (poor shifting) or a poorly adjusted derailleur. I suppose it could be that the wheel deflected due to the weight it was bearing and that resulted in the derailleur hitting the spokes but, again, that is not related to the derailleur bearing any weight, because it doesn't.

Looking forward to the pics!

And stop doing curbs

Not an LBS fan, but doubt the LBS is to blame. No off the shelf bike comes with wheels for your weight. 300lb SYSTEM weight typically is the limit. Even if you were under that, a shorter life is expected. So no one ever could sell you a bike unless you are willing to spend $ on custom wheel.

What would you have said if they refused to sell you a bike because of your weight? See.....

A 36 spoke triple butted spoke would be my recommendation.

I don't understand what the RD has to do with weight.

Huh? This may have been true about 30 years ago when Shimano introduced the freehub but that’s no longer the case. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of hubs that use the bearings that use Shimano’s style of freehub. I would agree that using a freewheel hub is a bad idea but there are lots and lots of other choices. Some of those choices even use more bearings to carry more weight than Shimano does. Phil Wood, for a very expensive example, uses 4 bearings on the axle, 3 of which are on the drive side. Most all boutique hubs use the same bearing set up.

I agree. These bikes carry a lot of extra weight in addition to my size able self and the derailers have never caused a problem

https://live.staticflickr.com/1740/4...8d6aa4d6_k.jpgIMGP1058 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bf0ac0b0_k.jpg2020-01-26 16:51:13 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

The second one even carries all that weight will constantly doing the equivalent of curb drops.

There is no operator error that puts the deraileur into spokes if it's adjusted properly

The whole thing could be a poorly adjusted limit screw

It is perhaps possible that with the broken spokes the wheel could in a spot move close enough to allow the der to touch if it was already compromised with a bent hanger or bent pulleys.
The bike should do fine long term holding your weight and as others have mentioned, your weight has nothing to do with a der failure.
Tandem wheels are not the best thing to go looking for; I've got 2 tandems, one I'm trying to get rid of, and despite both being from the 80s and using freewheels both came equipped with 145mm axles. A modern tandem hub will be too wide, it is largely a waste of time to go looking for something that isn't in your favor to find. For someone your weight I recommend an Shimano XT hub, can use LX but XT is better in my experience. There are other hubs that can be as good but they typically aren't cheaper enough to make them worth bothering with and there are some that are significantly better but their cost is high enough to exceed the price of your bike. Go 36h, 32h will hold your weight if built well with the right rim but 36 will do you better longer. Rims will vary based on disc vs rim brake but the sun Rhyno Lite is a good affordable start. You should have these built but a LBS that knows what its doing.

Were you shifting down to the largest sprocket in the back?

If not, it's not the limit screw, and probably not a bent hanger.

It's also possible that one of the broken spokes went into one of the rear deraileur jockey pulleys, which with about a quarter turn of the crank can cause the derailleur to come completely apart.

-mr. bill

Mate, I'm not talking about the difference between a freewheel hub and a freehub. I'm talking about the difference between a proper Shimano-style freehub and everything else.

Your vaunted Phil Wood hubs, as far as I'm aware, are the same crappy design as all the other pretenders: undo a locknut or something on the axle, and the cassette body just falls out of the hub. The drive side axle bearing is inside the freehub ratchet bearings, not outside where it should be. This requires a ridiculous amount of over-engineering to compensate for, and I'm not sure even the likes of Phil Wood or Campy has fully compensated for the weakness this introduces.

Mavic does something similar to Shimano, but the inboard ratchet bearing is a poxy bushing, so they're junk. That only leaves Alex and Joytech as far as I'm aware. So Shimano, hands down.

I too concur with the recommendation for Bill Mould Wheels.

He is local to me. He made a set I wanted for more flexible riding and be capable of towpath and loaded riding with a heavier rider. We sat down an discussed my requirements and types of riding and my size and weight. One of my wants was they had to be an easy switch (deraileur shifting and spacing, not so much with braking, as the bike has cantis) with the existing OEM wheels which have Alexrims A-23 on Shimano Tiagra hubs. The wheels I was considering and which he felt was a good fit and built are 36 hole silver Velocity Dyad 700c rims, silver Shimano 105 hubs, and Sapim DB spokes (I believe Force) using locking brass nipples and Veloplugs rather than rim strips. He checked out parts availability and emailed me an estimate and off we went. I was a bit apprehensive about the change from a Tiagra 10 speed hubs to 105 ii speed, but the correct spacer was included in the build. I used an Ultegra 10 speed cassette. These wheels wear Compass 32mm Stampede Pass standard weight with lightweight tubes.

When I mounted the wheels on the bike, the shifting was dead on and did not require any derailleur changes. As the Dyads are only 1mm wider than the Alexrims, I only had a half turn if that for braking adjustment and it was acceptable without the slight tightening. One giant convenience factor was the Velocity Veloplugs in the spoke holes. No more tape or rim strip and it seemed to make tire mounting and dismounting much easier. My only change was to remove the large Velocity Dyad label (I don't do large labels).

The Bill Mould wheels are so lively and solid. He said they are probably overbuilt and I could have gone with 32 holes, but I decided to stick with 36. I commissioned these wheels early last spring and it took about 3 weeks from sitdown to finished wheel.