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Specialized invents the hybrid bike

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Specialized invents the hybrid bike

Old 05-09-20, 01:04 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
To fully experience the essence of the gravel road - to truly understand it - you need a gravel bike. Not a mountain bike, not a cross bike, a gravel bike. Some people don't about the fullness of the gravel experience, and that's ok.
This sounds like something the Oracle would say in the Matrix.
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Old 05-09-20, 04:18 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
What the hell is the point of a 50mm dropper? S/B 125, mountain bikes are moving to 170

Edit: my question every time is why, didn't they go further? If they wanted to do a dropper why does it still have a pretty long x 27.2 road-bike seat tube? Why brag on your steering when it's utterly conventional? What's the point of this ridiculous little 2cm suspension stem if you are going to install 2" tires? Who knew NX 11-speed was still around?
The point is that it's not trying to go as far as a mountain bike. It's taking some mountain bike aspects and applying them to a design that's based more on a road bike to suit actually suit the needs of what people are doing and want to do with a bike, rather than trying to continue simply follow the mantra of more, more, more. Everyone doesn't want or need more dropper travel, more front end suspension, more slack front end. The type of riding this is designed for is well served by how they've designed it. Gravel riding has been seeing tremendous increases in popularity in recent years, and those actually doing it are looking for these types of additions. Future shock has been on the front end since the last gen Diverge and been a very well received feature. If someone wants a more dropper travel, more front suspension, etc. there are plenty of mountain bikes out there already to choose from.
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Old 05-09-20, 04:35 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Sorry but that all seems a bit arbitrary. But then I find the whole “gravel bike” thing to be rather arbitrary as well. I have a Salsa Las Cruces cyclocross bike that isn’t any different from “gravel bikes”. My touring bike is capable of “gravel”...I did hundreds of miles of it in Canada and canal paths of New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and Pennsylvania...while carrying enough stuff for living on the road for weeks on end.

Frankly, the whole “gravel bike” thing is a bit pretentious.
I agree with you that a lot of "gravel bike" and honestly most things "bike" in general are very arbitrary. Having more options seems like a positive for us as consumers, so I'm not sure why so many are pushing back against the gravel bike category. The numbers of people actually riding on gravel and the number of gravel events has exploded in recent years. What's so pretentious about taking what's become a popular type of riding and taking the characteristics from the many different kinds of bikes that work for that type of riding and trying to create something that is best suited to the most prevalent riding conditions encountered doing it? Like many categories of bike, the designs start around what the racers and sponsored riders are asking for in order to gain small advantages at the highest level of competition, and then those designs trickle down to the category as a whole. Cross bikes are very similar in a lot of ways, but generally have a more upright head tube, tire clearance close to the 33mm UCI limit for cross racing and a more aggressive riding position that's suitable for a couple hours of a cross race but probably not as desirable for a 200 mile gravel race.
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Old 05-09-20, 04:42 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
I don't get what makes this one different or special? The raleigh Alysa 4 was something I bought my parents 2 years ago as a year old sale to get them on a newer and easier to ride bike.
https://www.amazon.com/Raleigh-Bikes...dp/B01N0DJWXN/
Hybrid frame with spacing for wider tires, 1x11 speed, riser bar, carbon fork, and hydraulic discs. Can't remember the name of the men's version but it just came in red and neither looks as boring as the trek. Was a really nice bike for 1100 and since my parents could never figure out their chainrings it was the first time I decided 1x had some utility. Just needed to add a chainguard.
It's the details that make the difference, but yes this overall style of bike is not new, the Diverge itself is not new, this is just the latest new generation that's made some tweaks and additions to improve the bike based on where the genre is going and riders seem to be looking for. I'd imagine the Raleigh Alysa could very easily be ridden on the same terrain, but I'd bet as the hours and miles add up on a ride, someone on the Diverge would be moving faster and more comfortable.
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Old 05-09-20, 04:50 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Serious question: what's the point of a dropper seat post on a bike intended for cruising off pavement- as opposed to "real" mountain biking?
Gravel riding and racing can include fast and technical descents where a dropper post will have value. That's generally not all that common for the majority of gravel riding, so for many is probably not necessary. Also, gravel bikes are focused on fast riding, not simply cruising off pavement where honestly nearly any type of bike with decent tires won't find it's limits.
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Old 05-09-20, 06:46 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by NumbersGuy View Post
The point is that it's not trying to go as far as a mountain bike. It's taking some mountain bike aspects and applying them to a design that's based more on a road bike to suit actually suit the needs of what people are doing and want to do with a bike, rather than trying to continue simply follow the mantra of more, more, more. Everyone doesn't want or need more dropper travel, more front end suspension, more slack front end. The type of riding this is designed for is well served by how they've designed it. Gravel riding has been seeing tremendous increases in popularity in recent years, and those actually doing it are looking for these types of additions. Future shock has been on the front end since the last gen Diverge and been a very well received feature. If someone wants a more dropper travel, more front suspension, etc. there are plenty of mountain bikes out there already to choose from.
I agree. This bike's geometry isn't quite my thing -- it is essentially a slightly less-slack version of current mtb xc geometry, using a very long front-centre combined with a short stem -- but I can certainly see the appeal. I think that when these become available they will sell very well.

You have described quite precisely why I bought my current (newish) bike: Specialized Sirrus X Comp carbon (now called the X 5.0). It came stock with 38s, but switched to my preferred 32s it does precisely what I wanted: quick/comfortable on-road and just fine on the kinds of non-technical gravel/dirt roads and trails I like to ride. At getting on for 69 yrs old I'm no longer interested in 'bombing' anything, but I still do like to go off-piste once in a bit.

I might add on another of your points that I (now) have Future Shock 2.0 (full hydraulic adjustable damping) on my bike. As you point out, it has been pretty well received, and I can say from direct experience that it is very, very effective at absorbing road noise and damping the effects of small hits/rough pavement and so on. Put another way: if I lock it out, which I can do on the fly, I notice the difference immediately. To others it might not matter; to me it does, and I'm very happy to have this feature.
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Old 05-09-20, 07:34 AM
  #32  
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The Jamis Sequel is only $1,000. However, it's not a "gravel" bike. It's an urban assault bike. If only they had called it a gravel bike it could compete with the Specialized.

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/sequel-1.html


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Old 05-09-20, 08:33 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius View Post
The Jamis Sequel is only $1,000. However, it's not a "gravel" bike. It's an urban assault bike. If only they had called it a gravel bike it could compete with the Specialized.
It certainly can compete, regardless of whether it's marketed the same way by the manufacturer. The bikes certainly they may look roughly similar but there are certainly differences The Jamis is steel vs. aluminum for the $1600 Diverge Evo, Jamis weighs 28 lbs vs 23 lbs for the most comparable Diverge, Jamis is 10 speed vs 11 speed for the Diverge, Jamis does not have any suspension or dropper post and is has a much more upright riding position.

So yes, the Jamis is a cheaper, somewhat similar bike that can certainly handle the same terrain, but it seems the Diverge has design elements that make it more suited to some of the specific things encountered on gravel. I think this just reiterates that it's great to have all these options that individual riders can select from to find what is best for them regardless of what the marketing departments hype them up as.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:40 AM
  #34  
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I find discussions like this to be a bit weird, because all bikes are rehashing of old technology. And I see nothing wrong with it at all.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:40 AM
  #35  
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I frankly don’t get what peoples’ problem is with this bike. Other than the un-necessary dropper post, this is exactly the type of bike most people in the world are going to be most happy riding. This is the kind of bike that when my non-cycle-enthusiast family try out, they love. It is light, fast, comfortable and does not have a goofy drop bar.

Is this something novel? No, not particularly, but it is more so than high end road bikes sold today which are essentially the same thing they have been selling for the past (at least) 30 years, and yet we have a very active forum of folks getting all excited over the latest $5K re-hashing of the same damn thing over and over.

And BTW, “hybrid” is an asinine term. It basically means any bike with a flat bar not intended for mountain biking. It encompasses a massive variety of bikes, and tells you nothing about the intended use or the intended rider.

I am by nature a bit of a skeptic on new things. But I think we are currently living in the golden age of cycling (at least from a product stand point). The proliferation of highly versatile bikes blurring the lines between traditional categories is fantastic. These “gravel” bikes (be it with drops or flats) are not “niche” bikes. They are exactly the opposite.

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Old 05-09-20, 08:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
To fully experience the essence of the gravel road - to truly understand it - you need a gravel bike. Not a mountain bike, not a cross bike, a gravel bike. Some people don't about the fullness of the gravel experience, and that's ok.
I’ve been riding dirt and gravel roads for 40+ years. I don’t need an overhyped road bike to “fully experience the essence of a gravel road”. A mountain bike does just fine. I did at least 10 of those years on a rigid mountain bike so I’m reasonably certain that I know a bunch about “the fullness of the gravel experience” without suspension.

As for needing a gravel bike to ride on gravel, other than the flat bars what’s the difference between the bike above and my Las Cruces

DSCN2007 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or, for that matter, my T1

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

which I used to do a 47 mile dirt trail ride last week.

And, honestly, as suspension is being added to gravel bikes, it’s an admission that all is not right in the gravel world.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:58 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I’ve been riding dirt and gravel roads for 40+ years. I don’t need an overhyped road bike to “fully experience the essence of a gravel road”. A mountain bike does just fine. I did at least 10 of those years on a rigid mountain bike so I’m reasonably certain that I know a bunch about “the fullness of the gravel experience” without suspension.
I think tyrion’s post was meant as sarcasm.

At least I hope it was.
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Old 05-09-20, 09:14 AM
  #38  
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I think the bike is fine and it's good to have more choice but this one seems a little stuck between the genres.

If gravel bike means doing what a rigid mtb can do but with more speed then why the flats - shallow dirt drops would be better oriented in that regard.

If the goal was a more mtb capable bike why the dropper with such low travel. The main advantage is during steep descents and that one won't get the butt down low enough. It's like a nod to dropper technology without going there.

I like the wider range cassette for a 1x. If the goal is a more capable off road gravel bike you want the low and high range to at least roughly match what you can get from a 2x system.

Other than the sloping top tube and faux dropper, this is what it is:

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Old 05-09-20, 09:54 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I think the bike is fine and it's good to have more choice but this one seems a little stuck between the genres.

If gravel bike means doing what a rigid mtb can do but with more speed then why the flats - shallow dirt drops would be better oriented in that regard.

If the goal was a more mtb capable bike why the dropper with such low travel. The main advantage is during steep descents and that one won't get the butt down low enough. It's like a nod to dropper technology without going there.

I like the wider range cassette for a 1x. If the goal is a more capable off road gravel bike you want the low and high range to at least roughly match what you can get from a 2x system.

Other than the sloping top tube and faux dropper, this is what it is:
I think the whole point is that genres are just artificially created defined boxes that many people seem to believe bikes have to fit into. Lots of riders, and in this case specifically those that ride gravel have come to desire something in the grey area between genres taking some traits from multiple genres and mixing them into something that works well for their range of riding conditions.

The Diverge is offered in a multitude of drop bar variants, which have worked extremely well for riders of the prior generation. For the new models, it seems Specialized believes there was a market for flat bar variants and as such has added those to the lineup.

I have just started to explore gravel riding, and it actually seems like a modest dropper post is exactly what some of those with much more experience than I have are suggesting would be ideal. Sure there are probably technical descents more appropriate to a full on MTB where a greater drop is useful, but again this type of bike isn't trying to be a full on MTB, it's trying to apply that technology in a way most fitting the expected usage.

Other than the dozens of other differences, yes it's the same as the bike you posted. How appropriate that you choose that specific picture, as it seems you see everything in black and white and fail to understand that although all bicycles share a tremendous amount of similarities, the details are how they evolve to best meet the ever changing desires of riders for different uses.
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Old 05-09-20, 10:12 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Other than the sloping top tube and faux dropper, this is what it is:

Isn’t that a custom build?
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Old 05-09-20, 10:21 AM
  #41  
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No one wants drop bars at all except a tiny minority who are probably over represented on a bored like this. I barely ever see them even though I see very expensive bikes every day now that the lockdown has everyone riding way more.
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Old 05-09-20, 02:54 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by NumbersGuy View Post
It certainly can compete, regardless of whether it's marketed the same way by the manufacturer.
I can see you clearly don't "get" it.

The Jamis Sequel can compete toe to toe against the Raleigh Redux, but it doesn't stand a chance against the Specialized. It's just not possible.


//end sarcasm.
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Old 05-09-20, 03:29 PM
  #43  
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Here's from 2016:

https://www.rei.com/product/893062/d...etro-bike-2016

This bike was sold as an "urban" bike, and also as a "flat bar road bike" by some other retailers. With slightly different parts, Diamondback has sold this frame under a half dozen different marketing categories. I ride mine on mostly pavement, and refer to it as a "slightly more sporty looking hybrid."
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Old 05-09-20, 03:44 PM
  #44  
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I don't mean to say 1x and a dropper and MTB tires and suspension are necessary for a hybrid. I don't think they are, even though I like them. It's just that if you are going to have them, they can and should be better than this.

The drivetrain on the higher model is at least a good step better.
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Old 05-09-20, 05:43 PM
  #45  
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I like the EVO and see the target market. It's basically a cool hybrid / modern rigid 90's MTB. Specialized isn't the first to market a bike with a flat bar (Jamis Sequel & Salsa Journeyman come to mind) and they won't be the last. There is a reason why the early 90's had a mountain bike boom and we are headed back toward it, Cruising on the MUP, I still see more hybrids than anything else.

However, the unforeseen corvid bike boom has kind of overshadowed the gravel bike boom.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:37 PM
  #46  
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Move over Specialized Diverge, say hello to my 2016 Giant XTC with a 100mm inverted fork.
Roll the gravel and shred the singletracks, leaving Diverge riders wondering if they have purchased the wrong bike

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Old 05-09-20, 10:39 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
Move over Specialized Diverge, say hello to my 2016 Giant XTC with a 100mm inverted fork.
Roll the gravel and shred the singletracks, leaving Diverge riders wondering if they have purchased the wrong bike
Sure, the XTC will be able to perform well on gravel but it's not as if a heavy suspension fork and bigger, heavier tires are an advantage on gravel. I would expect a rider on the Diverge to ride away from you on a gravel road and only be wondering why you thought a heavier bike with unnecessary suspension travel and oversized tires would be better. Another person with a bike that looks kinda similar who can't grasp that the target market for gravel bikes doesn't want the "advantages" you think your bike has and certainly don't want the clear disadvantages it comes with.
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Old 05-09-20, 11:10 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by NumbersGuy View Post
I have just started to explore gravel riding, and it actually seems like a modest dropper post is exactly what some of those with much more experience than I have are suggesting would be ideal. Sure there are probably technical descents more appropriate to a full on MTB where a greater drop is useful, but again this type of bike isn't trying to be a full on MTB, it's trying to apply that technology in a way most fitting the expected usage.

Other than the dozens of other differences, yes it's the same as the bike you posted. How appropriate that you choose that specific picture, as it seems you see everything in black and white and fail to understand that although all bicycles share a tremendous amount of similarities, the details are how they evolve to best meet the ever changing desires of riders for different uses.
Who wants a dropper post with modest range? That's like saying one wants to spend a lot of money on a gravel bike with modest tire size capability or modest cassette range or only modest savings in weight. One generally spends a lot on a 2021 model to get advanced, not modest gains.

The choice of using a dropper post comes with a penalty - it weighs more. The reason people choose to accept that penalty is because it provides an advantage - dropping the seat on steep descents. If you aren't doing steep descents then there is no real advantage to using a dropper and thus, only a penalty in added weight. People don't need a dropper to go up and down the average gravel road. They use them for steep descents, and that post restricts that ability for no good reason. If one has added the weight, make it worthwhile. Otherwise, as I said, it's just a nod to what a dropper post could be.

And of course the bike I showed is different than the brand new bike. It's a 90's era rigid mtb converted to single speed with a wide range cassette - basically what people are comparing the bike in question to.

Your other comments about black and white etc... are just uninformed jabs at someone you don't even know as a weak attempt to discredit an opinion other than yours. I probably ride more genres of bikes than most and often flex those genres for uses other than intended. Definitely not a black and white thinker. I merely said this bike tends to fall in between two genres in a way that doesn't allow it to perform as well as either. It's somewhat a generalist bike in an era where bikes are becoming more specialist in nature.

The same thing happened in the 90's when they made the original hybrid as a crossover between mtb's and road bikes. Not fondly remembered for performance.

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Old 05-09-20, 11:17 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
That was my first thought when I saw the pic and before I read your comment. "We've gone full circle..the 90s rigid comes back with some juicing up to fit modern trends"

I'd guess it's lighter than the old 90s lower-end bikes, but the very good 90s models can still be had..for very low money and would probably compete with this bike very well in specs and performance.
Not selling my Trek Multitrack 750 anytime soon.
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Old 05-09-20, 11:24 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by c0rbin9 View Post
Not selling my Trek Multitrack 750 anytime soon.
I'm a fan of the Multitrack

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