cyccommute 

Agreed on the electronics. Imagine If electronics were integrated into the bikes in the 90s. We’d still be using Cateye Solars. Being able to use the computer I want is a plus.

I like my Lezyne Mega XL. The battery life is close to 40 hours of use before charging and it comes as a “loaded” kit with all the sensors. I’m not familiar with Wahoo’s GPS but the Lezyne can take routes from your phone and is simple to use.

cyccommute 

Cycling philosophy should be about simplicity...or at least as much simplicity as is reasonably possible. Unfortunately there are forces out there who are trying to make things more complicated so that they can sell more bikes by making the old ones obsolete. I’m not a complete Luddite and have gladly adopted new technology where it really made an improvement. Electronic devices are wonderful but I don’t want to be stuck with someone’s “brilliant” idea in 20 years.

rydabent

Oh I kinda doubt that.

himespau 

Just get a good powermeter. I like my powertap rear wheel, but pedals or cranks or whatever that you use to measure power should be able to send cadence to your cycle computer. If it's got gps, it'll tell you speed (mine uses gps to calculate wheel size and then uses rotational data from my powertap hub to calculate speed). No need for strapped on sensors or magnets or wires or anything. All integrated into your bike. Of course, it's not as cheap as a Garmin magnetless sensor.

rosefarts

My old but still running truck is a 1995. My dad got it when I was in high school and I bought it from him.

Imagine if it were integrated with the greatest technology. Mini disc player and the option to stop, plug into a phone cable and use AOL to get directions.

Sweet

Bill in VA

In other words an Advertising and Marketing directors dream... Yet more planned obsolescence and lack of spare parts, with increased profit for them and depreciation for the rider.... Yeah, all is good!!!

msu2001la

Interesting topic. I think we will start seeing more bikes come with crank mounted power meters/cadence sensors built in as the cost of these items starts to come down. SRAM has a version of Force/Red AXS with a built in power meter/cadence sensor. I wouldn't be surprised to see this feature become standard on future Force/Red crank sets, and available on lower tier group sets as well.

The Garmin style hub-based speed sensor is already cheap, unobtrusive, lightweight, wireless and simple to use. I guess it would be cool to have this sensor integrated into every wheel set I own, but it takes about 5 seconds to move it from one set to the other, so definitely not a priority.

I wonder how much longer chest-strap style HR sensors will be needed? My fitbit does a pretty good job with the optical sensor on my wrist but I don't think it can display live info on my Garmin Edge head unit. It would be cool to get other live bio-metric measurements as well like body temp, blood oxygen levels, etc.

Joe Bikerider

The height of my bike sensor architecture was a very small ladies plastic led display watch that I had mounted on my handle bar. Universal mount, only required wrapping the strap around the bar and latching. Let’s say about 1972. It displayed only one piece of data, the current time. I could look at that and think about where I was in case I would need to alter course to get home “on time”. Where on time meant whatever I wanted it to mean. Good times for sure. The strap eventually broke and I took to looking where the sun was. And that’s what I still do.

vane171

I am going to forget about heart rate, it would cost almost as much as what I paid for the bicycle. Those straps I've seen are made for runners and the readout goes to a watch on your wrist. It does all things, probably all you list, but it will cost you a bundle (it even measures the up and down movement or acceleration as your knees flex while you run and such like, which is good stat for your medic who looks after your knees or a trainer who looks after your running style efficiency...). It is luxury item that running yuppies out there will have. I am sure some are made for cyclists and read goes to your cyclo computer, but again, it gets rather expensive.

As to built in sensors, key word is 'standard'. Just because it is built in doesn't mean you will be stuck with Garmin computer or whatever. And those computers that take reading from those sensors can change, develop. It is like there is one Bluetooth or Ant+ and you can use what phone you happen to have with those sensors that have it.

BTW those suggestions about getting speed from GPS, I found that not impressive. The displayed speed fluctuates and lags somewhat behind the real situation, to the point it stops being a readout you are interested to look at while riding.

msu2001la

I'm confused by this response, and maybe by the entire premise of this thread.
You can buy a chest strap heart rate monitor for less than $50 that will be compatible with almost any phone or wireless cycle computer that reads this measurement. They don't need to be brand specific and there are loads of display options for bikes that don't require a wrist-watch (you can just use your phone, which it sounds like you're already doing).

If you're unhappy with the accuracy of GPS for speed, you can buy a speed sensor that attaches to your rear wheel for less than $40 that will also pair with various apps that can display your speed on your phone, or pair directly with a cycle computer. Again, they don't need to be brand specific. You can use a Garmin speed sensor with a Wahoo computer, or pair to an app on your phone. Cadence sensors are equally cheap ($40 or so) and universally compatible.

njkayaker

???

$70.

Works with any ANT+ head unit and it supports BT.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/649059

???

The sensors are already standard. Supporting BT is fairly new but it's becoming the standard (it appears).

Garmin's current sensor supports both.

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/641230

The problem with built-in sensors is that they make building the frame and the crank more expensive. To replace already standard, already-available sensors that are already cheap. It's not likely the built-in sensors would be cheaper than the current sensors.

The built-in speed sensors require magnets. That is, in that case, the sensors can't change (the new sensors don't use magnets at all).

vane171

I checked with big shop that deals in the main with bicycle stuff (plus stuff for running and maybe something else, huge sales floor, several big outlets in town), selling all kinds of bikes, including top machines for 15k price bracket, and only strap they show online is for running for $180, or there is Garmin strap for $140 CAD, probably like $100 USD. It provides tons of data besides heart rate, but for those other numerous readouts, you need the watch that goes with it and then the cost climbs to 500, 800 easily. Maybe if you only want to get the heart rate readout from the strat, you can hook it up to a phone app (paid app very likely too), but for that I need to ask in store, it doesn't say online. Still looking at minimum $100 USD for it.

All in all, I looked at two big bike shops in my area, perhaps they are sold out. Anyway, from what I saw, I got the impression that maybe nobody buy that kind of stuff for bicycling, so they don't carry it (otherwise they show even sold out items, so if they don't show it, they don't carry it).

Also checked on Amazon.ca and didn't see a damn thing, maybe on '.com' US they might have something, usually I don't go there because most items can't ship to Canada plus exchange rate usually makes it more expensive. Anyway Amazon is for some reason more expensive on most bicycle items than my local shops. Would have expected that to be otherwise.

njkayaker

​​​​​???

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vane171

Thanks, will look at the tips, link you provided. Pretty well wrote that idea off last night after looking what at my three sources online.

I was just wondering, if there are such neat sensors, that are fairly cheap and small, even attach to your shoe, why do I see many quite sizable gizmos that require straps like plastic ties to attach around your bike and that look like sore? Maybe just people buy them because they don't know about the good ones, unobtrusive and cheaper ones?

Also, it should be clear to anybody that I am new to this stuff, last night was first time in my life I ever went to look up those straps and didn't look for too long at that.

adamhenry

What is this thread about again? My Garmin HRM-Dual strap cost me about $55. I'm not sure how it would be integrated into a bike frame.

njkayaker

It's really clear that you are new to this stuff.

What's odd is you talking like you know about the stuff you aren't clear about.

The sensors that attach to the frame are about 3 years old.

If you are looking at particular things, you should provide links to them. That way, people don't have to guess whatever it is you might be talking about.

CliffordK

A couple of years ago there was the SpeedX Leopard, on Kickstarter, highly integrated. Apparently a moderate success, although it may have had issues with Strava integration.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...aero-road-bike

Then it was followed by the SpeedX Unicorn... What a name for a bike that never materialized.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...built-in-power

Interesting history, and a rather surprising reason why they went from boom to bust here.

https://cyclingtips.com/2019/06/what...ned-to-speedx/

woodcraft

This thought was floating about five years ago, but haven't really seen it...

CliffordK

I think Cannondale shipped a few bikes with a free power meter crank (which one had to pay several hundred bucks to activate).

Cannondale Bikes Now Sold w/PowerMeters

I don't know if that is still happening. I see notes on the NG power2max, but not being supplied as a default on some Cannondale models. Interchangeable Spiders?

himespau 

???Don't know if you're not asking for the right thing or your shops are garbage or what. Around here no one respects a Strava KOM or Zwift result unless there's a heartrate data attached to it (and even then who really cares about someone else's Strava or Zwift results?). Lots of serious cyclists have heartrate straps. It's pretty common gear.

msu2001la

Cannondale has several bikes listed on their US website that come with power meters. Their top end road bikes (SystemSix and Supersix Evo) have Dura Ace Di2 with built-in power meters. I know you can get SRAM Force and Red AXS with built-in power meters too.

Interestingly (and relevant to this thread), Cannondale sells a few bikes that come with a built-in wheel sensor that attaches to the front wheel hub that records speed, time and distance. The sensor syncs to an app they've developed. My understanding is that the sensor is also compatible with Garmin, so probably connects via Ant+ or BT and could work with other devices too. It appears on several different varieties of C'dale bikes.

I've not heard about this pre-installed power meter that needs to be activated. Interesting idea, similar to how Tesla equips cars with hardware for certain features that can later be unlocked for a fee.

Troul 

a SIM card inserted somewhere in the frame & a monthly subscription/fee could become a thing....

vane171

That;s encouraging, thanks.
Serious cyclists are a minority though, you get much many more ordinary people riding on all kinds of levels. Problem might be that I am looking at shops in a big city, Toronto. I doubt many serious cyclists live and train here, and the shops adapt to that.

Even I don't cycle here, at least not in any serious, sporting sense. Even if you put your bike in a car and drive behind town, there are no appealing roads for riding a bike in the area unless you drive far out, and even then. Best cycling around here is in ravines on cycle paths, but there you can't do serious biking. Normally I live in EU for late spring, summer and early fall, and I do all my cycling over there.

You know where people from Toronto go downhill skiing if they go out for a day? There is a hole in the flat country somewhere near by, and they ski down into that. LOL That tells you everything. Although I am sure somebody from around here if they are on the forum, will prove me wrong, always there is somebody who finds everything just OK.

Gresp15C

Oddly enough, downhill skiing is extremely popular in the US Midwest as well. Sure, I've been skiing in Colorado, and there's nothing like that in Wisconsin. But people love to ski. The local and regional slopes are a completely different vibe. It's something you can do on a whim, just go to the hill after work, or in between other activities on weekends. You meet your friends there, and begin to recognize the regulars. There are extensive weekend programs for teaching kids to ski. We don't use fancy equipment, because it gets trashed.

About technology, I work in the tech industry, notably I design chemical analysis equipment. Obsolescence is a huge issue. Naturally, capabilities and efficiency improve with each generation. But a bigger problem is that the interfaces are not documented or maintained. It's costly to support an old interface for the sake of a few customers. You might have a perfectly functioning sensor on your bike, but the manufacturer of the computer has no idea or interest in figuring out how to communicate with it. And manufacturers make it hard, with proprietary interfaces intended to lock you into a particular brand, and so you have to upgrade on their timetable and not yours.

A potential solution to this problem is the adoption of open standards, but the industry is unlikely to go along with this. For instance, I can still read the data from a Palm Pilot, not because Palm Computing still exists, but because hackers figured out the interface and created free support software.

njkayaker

???

There's a lot of talk from people that have no idea what the situation with sensors for bicycles is.

============================

There's an old (and still current) standard for sensors called ANT+. Bluetooth is another standard that's becoming more common. It seems any new "higher end" sensors support both ANT+ and BT.

The proprietary wireless sensors tend to be for cheaper systems. But if you want a standard, you'd choose ANT+ (and/or BT). You'll pay more for it.

Most of the head units that use these sensors are somewhat expensive and don't have long battery life.

There are a few head units that are basic and that have long battery life. They are expensive as far as basic head units go.