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Do I flip my stem down?

Old 06-27-20, 01:04 PM
  #1  
oik01
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Do I flip my stem down?

So I had a bike fit to help with neck pain . It wasn't the best experience in accuracy but they did seem to agree that I was seated too far back and my front end was a bit too close/ high. They suggested I move to a 0 setback seatpost and I change my 100 * 17 degree stem to 100*6 or alternatively just flip the stem down.

I decided to go in stages starting with the seat. I switched to a longer one and moved it forwards. They want me even more forward so I am waiting for a new seatpost. Now in that process i i ha also moved my saddle up to the recommended height. This has already created some drop. Do I still need to flip the stem down guys?







I'm looking for comfort. My original complaint was neck pain.
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Old 06-27-20, 01:14 PM
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Baby steps. Ride with just the seat moves for about 2 weeks. Get some mileage in before tinkering with more changes.
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Old 06-27-20, 02:08 PM
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Bike looks too small to me.
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Old 06-27-20, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 View Post
Bike looks too small to me.
Im under 6 feet and it's a size 58. It comes with a 110 mm stem but i had switched it out to a 100 +17 and I think they agreed with you and wanted me back to a longer reach especially after moving me forward on the seat ... I find it interesting since I've seen most people my height on size 56 ( I guess the effective too tube here is 57.25 so I'm between )
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Old 06-27-20, 03:56 PM
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I see nothing wrong with your setup other than the bars turned up a bit much. Turn bars down and brakes higher. TT is short. But depends on power and speed. You say you are looking for comfort, so that size may be just fine.

To really fit you need to know power/speed. More power = longer cockpit/flatter back as the pedal pressure takes weight off the hands. More speed = get more aero.
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Old 06-27-20, 06:27 PM
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you sure its a 58?
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Old 06-27-20, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
you sure its a 58?
100%. I just remeasured the horizental line from the center of the front at toptube intersection to the center of the seat tube. It measured 57.5 for me and they spec the effective top tube length as 57.25 cm.
In fact they are having to move my saddle all the way forward not back. I am using 100 +7 stem instead of the 110 6 it comes with so that puts the handlebars 20 mm closer and 13 mm higher so maybe that makes it look smaller? Also I guess the many spacers make me lose some cm off the effective top tube.

Last edited by oik01; 06-27-20 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 06-27-20, 07:02 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
100%. I just remeasured the horizental line from the center of the front at toptube intersection to the center of the seat tube. It measured 57.5 for me and they spec the effective top tube length as 57.25 cm.
I wonder if you guys think its small because the many spacers make me lose a lot of cm by puting the area the stem comes off further back towards me?
Dunno but your arms are straight and you are sitting a bit upright and your head is over the head tube. Could be just the picture.
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Old 06-27-20, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Do I still need to flip the stem down guys?
What's the point of going to a fitter if you're not going to heed their advice?

They suggested I move to a 0 setback seatpost and I change my 100 * 17 degree stem to 100*6 or alternatively just flip the stem down.
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Old 06-27-20, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
What's the point of going to a fitter if you're not going to heed their advice?
I ordered the seatpost they recommended. I was just unhappy with their method and their exam/ attention to detail didn't instill confidence. Simplest example is that my complaint was neck pain and they never even measured my shoulder width. They suggested moving my saddle forward/ up, and then adding drop/ reach but didn't see what my position would look like with the saddle moved forward. She wanted to sell me a 100$ stem. When I asked if i can start by moving my current stem down by 1.5 cm which according to stem comparison tools gets my handlebars pretty close ( 4mm less reach, 3 mm higher) and saves me money she insisted that it wasn't the handlebar position but the angle of the stem that made the difference ( which makes no sense cause my body / hands are not affected by the stem just by where the handlebar is in relation to the saddle/ BB) . So yes I've been following their advise but also curious to see what others think since I wasn't happy with their service. Honestly id have gone to someone else but they were the only ones open.
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Old 06-27-20, 11:21 PM
  #11  
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I am not an Expert!!

I have no idea why, but I can ride a bike sitting up with like a 35 degree flat bar, or I have to have bar drop. It seems like anything in between, modern Endurance geometry crunches my neck.

But I do know that Flipping stems, and moving spacers cost you zero!!!!! so it worth it to try. I do have 2 old pictures of my Synapse. First picture Neck was always sore, and then second picture neck was never sore. I basically Slammed the stem. I even replaced the headset Seal or Bowl cover whatever you want to call it with one half the height of the stock one. I also ran zero spacers. Cutting a steer tube with zero spacers was a bad Idea, but I got lucky and sold the bike to a guy the same size as me.




Edit: yes I ride with the seat too far back. It's just how I've always ridden and changing it.... well it's a painful process. my legs are happy there.
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Old 06-28-20, 10:47 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
I ordered the seatpost they recommended. I was just unhappy with their method and their exam/ attention to detail didn't instill confidence. Simplest example is that my complaint was neck pain and they never even measured my shoulder width. They suggested moving my saddle forward/ up, and then adding drop/ reach but didn't see what my position would look like with the saddle moved forward. She wanted to sell me a 100$ stem. When I asked if i can start by moving my current stem down by 1.5 cm which according to stem comparison tools gets my handlebars pretty close ( 4mm less reach, 3 mm higher) and saves me money she insisted that it wasn't the handlebar position but the angle of the stem that made the difference ( which makes no sense cause my body / hands are not affected by the stem just by where the handlebar is in relation to the saddle/ BB) . So yes I've been following their advise but also curious to see what others think since I wasn't happy with their service. Honestly id have gone to someone else but they were the only ones open.
why would they measure shoulder width? Were you concerned that your bars were too wide/narrow? I don’t see how this would factor into neck pain. All of the necessary adjustments will be on the longitudinal and vertical (not lateral) axes, which they’re addressing
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Old 06-28-20, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
I am not an Expert!!

.
Like that ever stopped anyone from weighing in.......😀
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Old 06-28-20, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Litespud View Post
Like that ever stopped anyone from weighing in.......😀
and a lot of that is just, stuff that someone read getting repeated, from someone else posting something they read. x10
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Old 06-28-20, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
So I had a bike fit to help with neck pain . It wasn't the best experience in accuracy but they did seem to agree that I was seated too far back and my front end was a bit too close/ high. They suggested I move to a 0 setback seatpost and I change my 100 * 17 degree stem to 100*6 or alternatively just flip the stem down.
No. Your elbows are barely bent and will be even straighter if you drop the bars.

Your saddle position looks painful too. You might need a flatter shape like a Specialized Toupe so the nose can be level without you rolling forwards. That in turn might come from being too far forwards.

She wanted to sell me a 100$ stem. When I asked if i can start by moving my current stem down by 1.5 cm which according to stem comparison tools gets my handlebars pretty close ( 4mm less reach, 3 mm higher) and saves me money she insisted that it wasn't the handlebar position but the angle of the stem that made the difference


Get a better fitter because yours is ignorant or more motivated to sell parts. It doesn't matter how you achieve a given drop and reach - with a flat stem and longer steerer tube, or longer riser stem and shorter steerer.

Go to one with a good reputation, that uses video, and will swap parts between trainer rides over a couple hours based on what they see.

Before on right, after on left:


Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 06-28-20 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 06-28-20, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
No. Your elbows are barely bent and will be even straighter if you drop the bars.

Your saddle position looks painful too. You might need a flatter shape like a Specialized Toupe so the nose can be level without you rolling forwards. That in turn might come from being too far forwards.



Get a better fitter because yours is ignorant or more motivated to sell parts. It doesn't matter how you achieve a given drop and reach - with a flat stem and longer steerer tube, or longer riser stem and shorter steerer.

Go to one with a good reputation, that uses video, and will swap parts between trainer rides over a couple hours based on what they see.

Before on right, after on left:

Yeah those were my exact qualms... The statements that made no sense, the not seeing what my position would look like after their suggested changes etc ...
BUT ... Since I did pay for the service I might as well give them a chance. I rode today and still had the neck discomfort so pulled the plug on the stem change they recommended. Stem flipped. Result in pic. More importantly ... How I feel will be reported on once I get more rides in ...

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Old 06-28-20, 03:26 PM
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^ based on that, I am assuming that a lower stem will give you more elbow bend? If it was me I'd also rotate the bar down a bit.

and lastly... Try pulling on your handlebar more as you ride, rather than using it as a perch. Wrist are generally straight when pulling, vs being bent when resting on the wrist.
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Old 06-28-20, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Metieval View Post
^ based on that, I am assuming that a lower stem will give you more elbow bend? If it was me I'd also rotate the bar down a bit.

and lastly... Try pulling on your handlebar more as you ride, rather than using it as a perch. Wrist are generally straight when pulling, vs being bent when resting on the wrist.
The pic is after their suggested change with effectively lowered my handlebar by 5.5 cm and increased my reach by 1.7 cm.
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Old 06-29-20, 11:49 AM
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This is worse. Now your arms are straight with no shock absorption, and if your neck is sore from looking up it will hurt more.

Their advice is backwards on handlebar height.

Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Yeah those were my exact qualms... The statements that made no sense, the not seeing what my position would look like after their suggested changes etc ...
BUT ... Since I did pay for the service I might as well give them a chance. I rode today and still had the neck discomfort so pulled the plug on the stem change they recommended. Stem flipped. Result in pic. More importantly ... How I feel will be reported on once I get more rides in ...

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Old 06-29-20, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
This is worse. Now your arms are straight with no shock absorption, and if your neck is sore from looking up it will hurt more.

Their advice is backwards on handlebar height.
Yeah I get that. BUT when I first got neck pain my original experimentation was to move handlebars closer and higher and that didn't work ( +17 10 cm stem and +6 8 cm stem tried instead of the 6 11 cm). So yeah ... It's counterintuitive but we will see ... Also some posters here did say they had less neck pain with more aggressive position and at least one fitting website says that their experience is that with handlebars that are too high some people tend to just lay more weight on but when they're moved down the body core engages instead
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