Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

No luck so far with road tubeless

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

No luck so far with road tubeless

Old 07-13-20, 06:59 PM
  #26  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by devianb View Post
Did you air it up to max psi and spray water around the entire wheel? Even the smallest leak would make a noise and show bubbles forming.
I didn't try the water spray since after adding sealant, the leaks decreased esp after riding about 60 miles the past weekend. But they still lose about 25% pressure overnight, the water spray sounds like a good idea, thanks!
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 07:58 PM
  #27  
Mulberry20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 733
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 136 Posts
I am enjoying reading this thread everyday. Tubes are that horrible that you deal with this nightmare on a daily basis? Not sure I understand it. This thread has a similar vibe as threads about Brooks saddles, Speedplay pedals and disk brakes. 🤣
Mulberry20 is offline  
Likes For Mulberry20:
Old 07-13-20, 08:02 PM
  #28  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Perhaps try wider rim tape? When I bought Stans tape for the initial install I looked online for info & consulted with the LBS mechanic but ended up with tape that was too narrow. I had worried about tape being too wide & interfering with bead seat but apparently it's more common to have tape being too narrow & edge being too close to spoke holes. So the wider tape seems to have helped. BTW I tried to follow online instructions on cutting Gorilla tape to width, found it quite cumbersome & followed one poster's advice to just tear it which was much quicker & easier though I don't know if that works for 3M etc tape. Folks at Rene Herse/Compass tires recommend 1 layer of Stans & 2nd layer of Gorilla tape though they specialize in wider tires.

Some folks suggest adding extra sealant, apparently this can help sometimes.

RE valves: some folks say to tighten them only finger-tight, using tools can risk squashing the o-ring too much. Also apply some sealant on the valve before installing (which seemed to help me). Rubber cement or similar might help give extra good seal on the valve base. Trying different valves can get expensive.

Good luck!

Last edited by DropBarFan; 07-13-20 at 08:38 PM.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 07-13-20, 08:36 PM
  #29  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I am enjoying reading this thread everyday. Tubes are that horrible that you deal with this nightmare on a daily basis? Not sure I understand it. This thread has a similar vibe as threads about Brooks saddles, Speedplay pedals and disk brakes. 🤣
I agree somewhat. Tubeless might be great for goat-head thorn territory (not my situation) but for me it was a big hassle including with my new tubeless tires being the most difficult mounting/removal I've seen (adding extra rim tape to seat makes that even harder). The new tires seem to roll pretty fast but not that much of a difference. For extra flat insurance, using tubes with sealant looks much easier.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 09:20 AM
  #30  
Sojodave
Senior Member
 
Sojodave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 582

Bikes: The Blurple Specialized Roubaix Pro

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 218 Post(s)
Liked 140 Times in 74 Posts
Last winter, I went tubeless with Continental 5000 tires on Reynolds carbon wheels. They were the toughest tire I have ever mounted. I had to take it to the bike shop and the bike shop took 4 hours and invented new curse words. I had orange seal in both tires. They worked great when they worked. I had constant valve leak and I knew if I got a flat, I would have to make the call of shame.

I took my wheels to the lbs and they replaced the valves. A week later, I had the same leaky valve problem. I finally gave up and went back to tubes.
Sojodave is offline  
Old 07-15-20, 03:30 PM
  #31  
b88
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 163

Bikes: Specialized

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 37 Times in 35 Posts
The problem I found was when a tire unseats. That mess sticking on to both sides of the bead if they touch both sides of the tire stick together. I wasted 2 co2 cartridges trying to reseat the tire. Finally on my 3rd and last cartridge I manage to inflate the tire after plugging it. Not something you want to mess around with in the dark.
b88 is offline  
Old 07-16-20, 04:44 AM
  #32  
masi61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,410

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1010 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I am enjoying reading this thread everyday. Tubes are that horrible that you deal with this nightmare on a daily basis? Not sure I understand it. This thread has a similar vibe as threads about Brooks saddles, Speedplay pedals and disk brakes. 🤣
No tubes are not that horrible. I just am making it a priority to get at least one road tubeless wheelset functional. I hate to give up on something before I even get out of the starting blocks.

I am making headway. I rode the bike 43 miles on my regular solo country river course yesterday. I had the DT Swiss MTB valve in the rear and an aluminum generic red anodized ďuniversalĒ cone type in the front. When I mounted the front I deployed 2 little tricks: 1) silicon grease on the cone shaped rubber and 2) application of firm pressure on the top of the valve (the head of the valve that is exposed @ the rim interior). I started the ride with ~110 psi front and rear and I decided to do my ride with them at that pressure to hopefully allow the sealant to do its job.

The Panaracer Race A Evo3 tubeless tires have a very different feel than what I am used to. Surprisingly they ran good at the initial pressure on my titanium road bike. The good news: I actually did a regular road ride with tubeless and got to try out these excellent Panaracer tubeless tires. For the most part the front tire held pressure.

The disappointing (but expected) news: the rear wheel, the one with the DT-Swiss MTB valve? Well it started at 110 psi and during the ride I could feel it was not as firm. I decided to complete the ride and just check it when I got home. It was down to 49 psi, apparently still rideable at that pressure. So today I will try to unseat the tire to change the rear valve out and re-deploy the silicon grease on the generic red ano cone shaped valve and press the top down with a large flat top tool before tightening the valve securing nut (just like I did for the front).

Mulberry20 - Iím not a user of Brooks saddles, or Speedplay pedals. My disc road bike I am building myself and it is not completed yet. Iím super excited about it and I intend to only use my LBS as an emergency resource for if Iím really stuck. I know of nothing fundamentally inferior about any of these things. Are you wanting to make a point about bike part reliability or how some parts are over rated? Please elaborate and keep this conversation going....

Currently, I am far from giving up on road tubeless. These skills are important and when one sets out to learn proper set-up of these systems using ďtubeless-readyĒ type parts or tubeless rims, tape, sealant, tires and valves from different manufacturers - yes, getting started has led to a failure rate higher than my tube mounting failure rate this is true. I did learn that I can mount tubeless tires to set the beads faster while using my pressure canister using the little thread-in adapter provided that fits in the valve stem when the Presta core is removed to permit faster airflow. Little details like these turn out to be big details in mastering this stuff.

Last edited by masi61; 07-17-20 at 03:44 PM.
masi61 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 09:44 AM
  #33  
Pepperpoole
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have tubeless on my Surly and had trouble at first and it turned out I was way over tightening the valves. I put new ones in, double taped the hole and used a drill bit to make a hole. I put a small amount of sealant on the stem then installed it by pushing down and not going too tight. Now I loose about five pounds a week in my front only. The back doesnít leak at all.
Pepperpoole is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 03:46 PM
  #34  
masi61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,410

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1010 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by Pepperpoole View Post
I have tubeless on my Surly and had trouble at first and it turned out I was way over tightening the valves. I put new ones in, double taped the hole and used a drill bit to make a hole. I put a small amount of sealant on the stem then installed it by pushing down and not going too tight. Now I loose about five pounds a week in my front only. The back doesnít leak at all.
Lucky you! Can you share what rims and what tubeless tape you are using? Also, what valves are you using?
masi61 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 04:31 PM
  #35  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,237

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1634 Post(s)
Liked 1,117 Times in 652 Posts
Just out of curiosity....have any of you who have had problems with tubeless been using Mavic UST?
bruce19 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 04:40 PM
  #36  
masi61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
masi61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,410

Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1010 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 238 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Just out of curiosity....have any of you who have had problems with tubeless been using Mavic UST?
My problem right now is with DT Swiss R460 rims set up tubeless. I do have a set of Mavic Cosmic disc UST wheels which are going on my new disc bike but I have not ridden them yet. They appear to be a great fit with the included Mavic Yskion tubeless tires provided. The fact that these tires can hold air for some time without any sealant at all is a good sign that this is a well designed system. I will not speculate any more about future air-tightness due to not having ridden them yet.
masi61 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 05:04 PM
  #37  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,237

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1634 Post(s)
Liked 1,117 Times in 652 Posts
I've been using Mavic for about 1 1'2 yrs. I've had no problems. The tires mount easily, inflate easily with a floor pump and I've yet to have a flat. I think Mavic's idea to machine a wheel to a tire was a great one.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 07-17-20, 10:59 PM
  #38  
Pepperpoole
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have the stock Alex Adventurer rims that came with my Surly Midnight Special and used Stans tape and stems. I used Orange Seal. My bike came with WTB Horizons and I had more trouble with them initially but I upgraded my tires to WTB Venture and redid everything and itís been working very well.
Pepperpoole is offline  
Likes For Pepperpoole:
Old 07-22-20, 01:43 AM
  #39  
Toespeas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by masi61 View Post
I have noticed that the presta valves want to unthread themselves when I use my inflation cannister to pressure mount the tubeless tires onto the rim shelf. I don't think they are leaking from the presta valve insert (stem) right now but I will check.
you know road tubeless is just not worth it , maybe for commute on 32mm city tires at under 75 psi , anything over 75 is just not going to work , some people might get it and have a good time , but i sure dont , and i had a great system , i never need a pressured pump , i just used new rim tape and i always patched my holes with high quality glue and old tube rubber , but even then , on the road hit something big enough that hole will never seal , i tried the darts , the worms , bacons , all the sealants mtb , glitter , stringy stuff , tubeless is only going to work for low psi stuff constantly , at this point i much prefer just getting some gp5000s racing tubes and carry patches and some extra wal mart tubes , i know i will never get stuck out and the patch are easy and quick !
Toespeas is offline  
Old 07-22-20, 09:50 PM
  #40  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Well, I thought I had my new tubeless conversion sorted out but the rear tire, which seemed to have sealed halfway OK, now leaks a lot, had to return early from a recent short ride. Tubeless conversion seems to be a crap shoot with some tire/rim combos working easily & others difficult at best. I think I'm going to go back to tubes. Too bad since tubeless did seem to be a bit faster & more supple.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 07-23-20, 11:30 AM
  #41  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,237

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1634 Post(s)
Liked 1,117 Times in 652 Posts
Mavic UST and other tubeless are just not the same. I've been running 2 sets of Mavic for over a year and not one flat or problem in any way. If anyone is having a problem with Mavic UST I'd like to hear about it. Just so I know what to look for. If no one running Mavic has a problem maybe that tells you something.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 07-23-20, 05:08 PM
  #42  
dmanthree
Senior Member
 
dmanthree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeastern MA, USA
Posts: 1,645

Bikes: Garmin/Tacx Bike Smart

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Liked 274 Times in 181 Posts
Tubeless is just a solution looking for a problem. The one or two flats I get a season just aren't that big a deal, and working with tubes is just so damned easy. I tried tubeless, and it was fine...until is wasn't. Hit a pothole, broke the bead, and had to insert a tube to make it home. Unmounted the tire, and, of course, the tube is now permanently stuck to the tire. After this, I saw no point whatsoever in tubeless road tires. I went back to plain old tubes and never looked back.
dmanthree is offline  
Old 07-29-20, 10:57 PM
  #43  
DropBarFan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
Mavic UST and other tubeless are just not the same. I've been running 2 sets of Mavic for over a year and not one flat or problem in any way. If anyone is having a problem with Mavic UST I'd like to hear about it. Just so I know what to look for. If no one running Mavic has a problem maybe that tells you something.
UST is too logical for the bike market, but I don't see any 584mm/650b UST stuff incl from Mavic. I also like the idea of tubeless rims without outer spoke holes that eliminate need for rim tape or at least mean that rim tape needs only to help tires seat vs serving as 24+ spots for mystery leaks. Slight extra difficulty in replacing a spoke likely outweighed by time & expense used to tape/re-tape rims. My current tubeless-ready rim/tire combo is so tight fitting that it's impossible to remove tires without gouging the rim tape with tire levers.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 07-30-20, 12:28 AM
  #44  
Toespeas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 164 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 44 Times in 41 Posts
id say my final verdict would be , race day tubeless road and low pressure tubeless commute-road/cyclcross /gravel , will give the least problems
seasonal training , endurance road , high use high mile will give you the most problems .

i dont think tubeless will hold up to 300 miles weeks during peak season like a gp4000 used to , i have got well over 3000 miles on a set of gp4000s with many races and huge rides with no real issue , compared to the first damn day i raced on tubeless and got a leak , that never sealed until i patched it , on mavic UST cosmic elites , wasnt the wheels issue but the over all system that failed many times !
Toespeas is offline  
Old 07-30-20, 07:48 AM
  #45  
Mulberry20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 733
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 136 Posts
Isnít it telling that Specialized chose not to go tubeless with the brand new Tarmac SL7?
Mulberry20 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.