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Carbon frame manufacturing defect?

Old 07-09-20, 02:17 PM
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Jicafold
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Carbon frame manufacturing defect?

So I have this 2011 Scott Contessa CR1 Team. Carbon frame. Hardly a mark on it. The middle of the top tube though has a weird line in it. Looks like it was just the way the carbon layed up. It's completely flat at that spot and no marks, bends, or scratches. So...they made it this way?











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Old 07-09-20, 02:24 PM
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Cosmetic blem at worst, but take it to the dealer for evaluation.
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Old 07-09-20, 02:42 PM
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Did the bike come with that or is this a change? I don't have the answers either way but that is a clue.
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Old 07-09-20, 02:59 PM
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I just bought this bike used yesterday. I have no idea of the history. I was going to take it to the local shop, but I thought I would start here.
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Old 07-09-20, 03:21 PM
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that is clearly two carbon tubes that have detached from each other, i would imagine the strength of that tube is highly suspect
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Old 07-09-20, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
that is clearly two carbon tubes that have detached from each other, i would imagine the strength of that tube is highly suspect
That frame was not constructed from tubes. It was laid up in a mold from small sheets of woven carbon and the sheets overlap, leaving lines like that. Some manufacturers will paint those sections black, before applying the clear coat, in order to hide the layup lines and avoid panicking customers who think there is something wrong with the frame.
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Old 07-09-20, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jicafold View Post
I just bought this bike used yesterday. I have no idea of the history. I was going to take it to the local shop, but I thought I would start here.
you realize a warranty of defects in materials and workmanship only applies to the original buyer.. not you.. just live with it,

you saved money over buying it new ,
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Old 07-09-20, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
you realize a warranty of defects in materials and workmanship only applies to the original buyer.. not you.. just live with it,

you saved money over buying it new ,
Wow, I wasn't looking for a refund or even mentioned one. I was just wondering why it was there.
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Old 07-09-20, 04:37 PM
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Is the outside finish smooth? you do realize there is more than 1 layer of carbon used in laying it up inside the Mold?

gel coat goes in the mold first then fabric with resin, then another

I made some fiberglass boats not carbon bikes .. but the idea is similar before the epoxy cooks you get the air bubbles out..
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Old 07-09-20, 04:39 PM
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they have molds for each size of bikes or was the one adjustable,, ? i don't know..
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Old 07-09-20, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Is the outside finish smooth? you do realize there is more than 1 layer of carbon used in laying it up inside the Mold?

gel coat goes in the mold first then fabric with resin, then another

I made some fiberglass boats not carbon bikes .. but the idea is similar before the epoxy cooks you get the air bubbles out..
Yes. As stated in my first post, the outside is totally flat and smooth.
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Old 07-10-20, 06:12 AM
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That sucker looks ready to asplode. Carbon bikes do that all the time you know.

Pretty sure I read that somewhere on this site.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:19 AM
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I would have that looked at. If nothing else for piece of mind. However, the first place I would take it to is someplace where they actually work with carbon fiber. Just my opinion, but I would think that if it's a factory blemish that it would have been caught during the sanding process after the frames are removed from the molds.
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Old 07-10-20, 07:27 AM
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Looks like a blemish.....but to be on the safe side I 'd use some duct tape to hide it and strengthen the tube in case of an asplosion (jk)
Nice bike!
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Old 07-10-20, 09:09 AM
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I'd inquire with the photos directly to Scott. I'm sure their only obligation is to original owner, but I bet they'll still give you guidance. Most likely, they will tell you "yes, that's a recognized aspect of our layup process on that model." But they might tell you something else. Worth trying. I had a good experience with their customer service a few years ago.
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Old 07-10-20, 10:00 AM
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I could never trust a bike with something like that. I would never feel comfortable riding hard or taking a fast descent. It might be absolutely nothing, but I would never have peace of mind.
Bummer!
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Old 07-10-20, 10:22 AM
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The Scott webpage says to go to the local dealer first, which there is one. I'll go by my preferred shop first, Action Bikes in San Antonio, then to the local dealer to see what they say. Thank you.
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Old 07-10-20, 10:44 AM
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I can't believe how much bad advice you're getting.

There is nothing wrong with the bike. If you look at carbon layups with clear coats, you can see something like this on pretty much every piece ever molded.

Carbon fiber itself is very fine and silky. It's laid up in multiple plies and set in epoxy. Picture many layers of loose, very fine silky threads frozen in clear glue. Sometimes there will be a little ripple, or one sheet of carbon fiber will end, and you can see that.

Some manufacturers are better at layups than others. Some put a cosmetic weave coat over the top. But what you see here is very normal and no cause for concern.
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Old 07-10-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ljsense View Post
I can't believe how much bad advice you're getting.

There is nothing wrong with the bike. If you look at carbon layups with clear coats, you can see something like this on pretty much every piece ever molded.

Carbon fiber itself is very fine and silky. It's laid up in multiple plies and set in epoxy. Picture many layers of loose, very fine silky threads frozen in clear glue. Sometimes there will be a little ripple, or one sheet of carbon fiber will end, and you can see that.

Some manufacturers are better at layups than others. Some put a cosmetic weave coat over the top. But what you see here is very normal and no cause for concern.
I agree - the beautiful smooth and seamless weave you frequently see on frames etc is usually a cosmetic layer and doesn’t reflect the multilayered structural- and frequently less aesthetic nature of the layup underneath. The carbon sheets are layered for function and strength, not beauty, and these sheets have to overlap somewhere. If the manufacturer chooses not to cover the whole thing with as seamless-as-possible top layer , the structural nuts and bolts of the layup will be evident - like here
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Old 07-10-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Jicafold View Post
The Scott webpage says to go to the local dealer first, which there is one. I'll go by my preferred shop first, Action Bikes in San Antonio, then to the local dealer to see what they say. Thank you.
Ignore the high drama background music, though the baritone narration is kind of nice. However, this is a good overview of how your frame was constructed.

The 2011 Scott Contessa CR1 Team (and Scott CR1 Team) is a "HMF" (high modulus fiber) "IMP" (integrated molding process) frame, though the entire frame is not IMP. It's a hybrid of IMP parts.

Starting at 0:30 they cover "HMX" (high modulus extreme) but "HMF" is very similar.
Starting at 1:00 you can see a variety of the removable cores that the carbon pieces are layed up on.
Around 1:30 you see them working on a suspension frame (the main unsprung triangle, the WHOLE triangle is IMP).
Starting at 2:19 or so is the bonding and final layup (they are showing a road frame here, Foil?). This frame is made up of multiple IMP components. Similar to yours.


So, please do visit your LBS, because free internut advice (particularly ignore the always "helpful" asploding crowd) is worth every penny. But until you visit the LBS, that looks like a bonding artifact, not a ready to asplode frame. (It's also why newer frames are more likely to be finished with an opaque primer before final colors.)

Nice bike, I still miss my CR1 Pro, and I still can't believe road debris took out my rear deraileur which took out my Addict dropout and seat stay.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 07-10-20 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 07-10-20, 11:25 AM
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If you ask a LBS if they think the frame is OK, most will not risk the liability of saying yes.
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Old 07-10-20, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
If you ask a LBS if they think the frame is OK, most will not risk the liability of saying yes.
And free legal advice too.

-mr. bill
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Old 07-10-20, 12:56 PM
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This thread is why you don't turn to forums like this. Basically the three standard responses for everything is;

1. You are screwed and got screwed, this thing is a death trap caused by a massive industrial conspiracy forcing you to buy more bikes. I am staying with my 1976 Sears special because it's steel and made in America.

2. Looks good but I say ask another person just to be sure.

3. Someone who actually is informed and can clearly see there is nothing wrong here and enjoy your new purchase.

If the bike was painted you would not see a thing and would be happily pedalling your bike around right now. Previous threads have shown that this random Carbon frame failures are an urban legend. You are at exponentially more risk for a tire blow out causing a crash and even those are rare.
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Old 07-10-20, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
2. Looks good but I say ask another person just to be sure.
Sigh. There's a reason you can't diagnose many things from pictures on the internut.

"How much is this Black Lotus card worth?" (pic of card)
"Do I have Covid toe?" (pic of toe)
"Is this a replica 356 or the real thing?" (pic from across the street)
"Do my roof shingles need replacing?" (pic of roof shingles, digital zoomed, from the ground)

-mr. bill
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Old 07-10-20, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
"Is this a replica 356 or the real thing?" (pic from across the street)

-mr. bill
real (Rudge knock offs)


Fake (4 bolt VW wheels)
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