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SEAL-nots

Old 07-18-20, 10:34 AM
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SEAL-nots

Tube-ass sealant.. needs much refining.. by many many miles. Dryout.. the empty promises. Lots of it is really JUNK.

Yes.. I expect ALLOT. Why not? 'Condomes' inside the rubber is history.. seal-NOT is all that's slowing this advancement down. You argue...
trying running that condome rubber near low flat.. what happens..

Here's a thought/idea.. free to the community.. for the intellect types. All half dozen or so... LOL. Not me.. by miles.

Ok... DRY sealant. Say WTF he sez... ?? Combo of particle sizes w some making adhere to bead gap et al. Combo of materials.... you get the plan. Do doubt.. a viable route. Yet.. no refill route.. which is what this current junk has going for it.......

Where is... a good chemist when/where one needs them....

Last edited by Aladin; 07-18-20 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 07-18-20, 11:22 AM
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I’m sure it would work. Similar to dehydrated water...just add water.
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Old 07-18-20, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Tube-ass sealant.. needs much refining.. by many many miles. Dryout.. the empty promises. Lots of it is really JUNK.

Yes.. I expect ALLOT. Why not? 'Condomes' inside the rubber is history.. seal-NOT is all that's slowing this advancement down. You argue...
trying running that condome rubber near low flat.. what happens..

Here's a thought/idea.. free to the community.. for the intellect types. All half dozen or so... LOL. Not me.. by miles.

Ok... DRY sealant. Say WTF he sez... ?? Combo of particle sizes w some making adhere to bead gap et al. Combo of materials.... you get the plan. Do doubt.. a viable route. Yet.. no refill route.. which is what this current junk has going for it.......

Where is... a good chemist when/where one needs them....
Is this some gigantic elaborate haiku?
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Old 07-18-20, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Tube-ass sealant.. needs much refining.. by many many miles. Dryout.. the empty promises. Lots of it is really JUNK.

Yes.. I expect ALLOT. Why not? 'Condomes' inside the rubber is history.. seal-NOT is all that's slowing this advancement down. You argue...
trying running that condome rubber near low flat.. what happens..

Here's a thought/idea.. free to the community.. for the intellect types. All half dozen or so... LOL. Not me.. by miles.

Ok... DRY sealant. Say WTF he sez... ?? Combo of particle sizes w some making adhere to bead gap et al. Combo of materials.... you get the plan. Do doubt.. a viable route. Yet.. no refill route.. which is what this current junk has going for it.......

Where is... a good chemist when/where one needs them....
Okay, a little hard to parse but I suspect there’s a bit of a language issue. Kudos on knowing English because, as an American, I have zero language skills outside of English.

That said, sealant is a complex problem that is kind of difficult to solve. The latex in the sealant needs to be kept in very small particles until it needs to agglomerated together to make large particles to fill a hole. That’s not an easy task to solve. Essentially, you have a can of paint that is in constant contact with air and the issue is to keep the paint from drying until you absolutely need it to.

The glycol in the sealant are meant to do this but there are issues. It keeps the latex dispersed but it is also soluble in the rubber of the tire. The air pressure in the tire also drives the glycol to dissolve into and through the rubber (Le Chatelier’s Principle). It’s a difficult problem to solve. Changing the solvent might work but I suspect the shelf life would suffer.

A dry sealant probably wouldn’t work because there is nothing to disperse the sealant where it is needed. Belts in the tire are only partially successful...tube tires are susceptible to punctures with belts. We’ve had pneumatic tires for 150 years now and no one has developed a foolproof system.

Bottom line, you just have to live with the problems. There is no magic bullet to fix it.
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Old 07-18-20, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Okay, a little hard to parse but I suspect there’s a bit of a language issue. Kudos on knowing English because, as an American, I have zero language skills outside of English.
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that English is a second language for this poster. I've had plenty of college students (native English speakers) whose writing skills are only slightly better. If you are older than about 40 years, you might be surprised by high school standards in some states.

As for the rest of the post - or what little sense I can make of it: I really don't understand the complaint, so am supposing it is user error. Most sealant works fine when used as recommended.
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Old 07-18-20, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Tube-ass sealant.. needs much refining.. by many many miles. Dryout.. the empty promises. Lots of it is really JUNK.

Yes.. I expect ALLOT. Why not? 'Condomes' inside the rubber is history.. seal-NOT is all that's slowing this advancement down. You argue...
trying running that condome rubber near low flat.. what happens..

Here's a thought/idea.. free to the community.. for the intellect types. All half dozen or so... LOL. Not me.. by miles.

Ok... DRY sealant. Say WTF he sez... ?? Combo of particle sizes w some making adhere to bead gap et al. Combo of materials.... you get the plan. Do doubt.. a viable route. Yet.. no refill route.. which is what this current junk has going for it.......

Where is... a good chemist when/where one needs them....
I mean yeah, I'm drinking on an early Saturday afternoon too.
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Old 07-18-20, 01:26 PM
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It sure sounds like slime, from Walmart, is what you need. Knock yourself out.
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Old 07-18-20, 01:41 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run-fl...e#Technologies
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Old 07-18-20, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I mean yeah, I'm drinking on an early Saturday afternoon too.
Yep. We have several who use attention seeking "unique" posting styles. I suspect they imagine it somehow makes up for deficiencies in content.
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Old 07-18-20, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Yep. We have several who use attention seeking "unique" posting styles. I suspect they imagine it somehow makes up for deficiencies in content.
... certainly deficiencies of some sort. The 'content' (such as it is) may well be consequence rather than cause.
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Old 07-18-20, 05:31 PM
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Tubeless tire systems are not sold properly to the riding public. The sealant needs to be topped off every so often as it does dry out. What we have found at the shop is removal of the old sealant and cleaning out the tire and rim every two years gains maximum results. Whenever someone inquires about tubeless setups I tell them if they have a serious problem with flats or a serious need to run low tire pressures or need to save weight for performance issues, and understand that tubeless requires more "regular maintenance" than tubed tires, then they are the right choice.
For the everyday common rider tubeless is a not so good idea.
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Old 07-18-20, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I mean yeah, I'm drinking on an early Saturday afternoon too.
Yeah, but are you Wisconsin drinking?
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Old 07-18-20, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Tubeless tire systems are not sold properly to the riding public. The sealant needs to be topped off every so often as it does dry out. What we have found at the shop is removal of the old sealant and cleaning out the tire and rim every two years gains maximum results. Whenever someone inquires about tubeless setups I tell them if they have a serious problem with flats or a serious need to run low tire pressures or need to save weight for performance issues, and understand that tubeless requires more "regular maintenance" than tubed tires, then they are the right choice.
For the everyday common rider tubeless is a not so good idea.
If someone can go two years without wearing out a tire, yeah - maybe tubeless isn't a good idea.

Once you have a process down, maintenance is pretty easy; a syringe and valve stems that'll pass the syringe will make life so much easier.
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Old 07-18-20, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
a syringe and valve stems that'll pass the syringe will make life so much easier.
What do you mean by this? Some sort of connection to the valve stem that allows you to keep the valve core in place? So you don't have to deflate the tire to top up? If it doesn't gum up, it should work. I haven't seen such a thing though.

​​​​​​I top up and fill up with a piece of tube connected to a 60ml syringe. I still have to remove the core for it. This could cause leaking or crack the seal in theory.

Last edited by rosefarts; 07-18-20 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 07-18-20, 06:56 PM
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The syringe may or may not be good depending how chunky the chunkulator in the formula is and how much you want to get into the tire. I've been fine using the tube that comes on the top of the Orange Seal bottle. Carrying the stem remover in the bag and taking out the valve is not onerous. They're now selling valve caps that have the remover built in. The Stan's Dart also has a remover built in. So does the top of a Slime bottle, for Schraeder.

It seems like you should be able to top up the sealant by stabbing a big needle right into your tire but I haven't been brave enough to try it :-D I recall a post where someone repaired the latex tube in their tubular tire that way.
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Old 07-18-20, 06:59 PM
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 07-18-20, 07:06 PM
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16ga needle is about the largest you can realistically get. I think I've seen some 8 and 10ga specialty, reusable ones. Anyway, I've drawn up betadine with a 16 and you've got to go slow and it's a pain.

Sealant is about a million times thicker than that. Stan's is pretty thin. It might work in an emergency but I would be worried.

Better would be a valve stem with a branch. Think of the port on the side of a Foley catheter. Set that up with a luer lock and go. Of course this would be wider than the valve hole, so it would need to be an extension, like something for deep rims. It could be done though. Maybe.
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Old 07-18-20, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
What do you mean by this? Some sort of connection to the valve stem that allows you to keep the valve core in place? So you don't have to deflate the tire to top up? If it doesn't gum up, it should work. I haven't seen such a thing though.

​​​​​​I top up and fill up with a piece of tube connected to a 60ml syringe. I still have to remove the core for it. This could cause leaking or crack the seal in theory.
This is what I use - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DZB3TVH/ The hard plastic "needle" is about 3mm - it will not pass all the way through most of the valve stems that I have on hand. But yes, you have to deflate the tire and remove the core, but that's trivial compared to breaking the bead to remove old sealant.

There is one system, Milkit (sp?), that allows you to insert/remove sealant without deflating the tire. You still have to remove the core, but there's some type of flappy valve at the base of the valve stem that'll hold the air pressure without the core in place.
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Old 07-19-20, 05:55 AM
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What is an ALLOT? And how do you expect one?
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Old 07-19-20, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
Yeah, but are you Wisconsin drinking?
In college, we had a drink called "The Wisconsin Depth Charge": a shot of whiskey, dropped (shot glass and all) right into a tall mug of beer, and then chugged all at once.

Somehow, I know I drank some of these, but I don't recall any specifics. Hmm.
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Old 07-19-20, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
In college, we had a drink called "The Wisconsin Depth Charge": a shot of whiskey, dropped (shot glass and all) right into a tall mug of beer, and then chugged all at once.

Somehow, I know I drank some of these, but I don't recall any specifics. Hmm.
That's a "boilermaker" here.
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Old 07-19-20, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
In college, we had a drink called "The Wisconsin Depth Charge": a shot of whiskey, dropped (shot glass and all) right into a tall mug of beer, and then chugged all at once.

Somehow, I know I drank some of these, but I don't recall any specifics. Hmm.
Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
That's a "boilermaker" here.
Good to know. I thought a Boilermaker was a whiskey shot with a beer chaser on the side. I used to drink those back in the 2000s -- but my bartender and I called it a "Bush and Cheney" - since one of the drinks was dark and strong, the other light and weak.
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Old 07-19-20, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Good to know. I thought a Boilermaker was a whiskey shot with a beer chaser on the side. I used to drink those back in the 2000s -- but my bartender and I called it a "Bush and Cheney" - since one of the drinks was dark and strong, the other light and weak.
It won't seal a tire either, but it makes the flat experience a tiny bit better,

https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/d...-drink-recipe/
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Old 07-19-20, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that English is a second language for this poster. I've had plenty of college students (native English speakers) whose writing skills are only slightly better. If you are older than about 40 years, you might be surprised by high school standards in some states.

As for the rest of the post - or what little sense I can make of it: I really don't understand the complaint, so am supposing it is user error. Most sealant works fine when used as recommended.
There's a guy I met on another forum (machine tools) who writes a bit like the OP. No foreign language issue: A US-born former US Army Combat Engineering Officer (and son of a US Army officer). As it happens, we communicated and I believe we're even related. His posts dip into what might be called poetic. On the other hand they might be thought of as word puzzles ("Parse and figure out THIS phrase, sucker!") I think sometimes people who post like this are trying to emulate James Joyce. IIRC, he said something like "Anyone trying will spend a lifetime trying to completely understand 'Ulysses'", in reference to his book. The OP's wording is somewhat understandable, but difficult. With Joyce, it is worth it to read and contemplate. On forums like this, writing three paragraphs is a conceit and wastes time when you could have said "Liquid sealant is a pain: could there be something like a dry sealant?" . But hey, its a forum, so you get to be as logorrheic as you want.

Hmmm. I am scarcely blameless in this regard.

On that subject, I agree with cycommute. One additional issue is that compressed air often has moisture in it. So a dry sealant that depended upon low humidity to be able to "flow" would get more gummed up with every topping off of the air pressure.

Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 07-19-20 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 07-19-20, 08:16 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If someone can go two years without wearing out a tire, yeah - maybe tubeless isn't a good idea.

Once you have a process down, maintenance is pretty easy; a syringe and valve stems that'll pass the syringe will make life so much easier.
I can't get a helmet to last two years so no chance on a tire. I have gotten a couple of front tires to celebrate their first birthday, but they were looking pretty tired (ba-dum-tiss) by that point.

I'm coming to the conclusion that if a person measures cycling in months and years, tubeless might not be for them. I measure everything in miles.

My syringes of choice, I just use some of my massive coil of 1/4" vinyl tubing left over from the aquarium days for attaching to the stem. The 100ml are fantastic.
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