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how do u define the perfect wheelset.

Old 07-29-20, 05:16 PM
  #1  
thehammerdog
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how do u define the perfect wheelset.

what if u could have the gold standard of wheels
the Jonny Walker black of bicycle wheel.
not the lightest costliest, rarest fastest but Corvette of fast cars...just a good obtainable daily use wheelset.
what would it look like?
I ask because I'm loving my new sub 1600 gram with conti gator skins wheelset.

it just makes me smile. so smooth.
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Old 07-29-20, 05:40 PM
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36 spoke carbon 700C double wall with cartridge sealed ceramic bearings & no logos. That'd be a start to being perfect for me. Tires, Pirelli Cinturato Velo x28. Tubes, Conti. or Michelin Airstop.
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Old 07-29-20, 05:40 PM
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I don't need the best and or lightest, but I do want a wheelset that doesn't give me any issues I need to think about. My Hed Ardennes Plus LT's do that very well.
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Old 07-29-20, 05:47 PM
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The perfect wheelset for me would be 28/32 spokes, handbuilt, double butted j bend spokes, brass nipples, reliable light hubs, and rims that are 21-24mm wide and 26-30mm deep. Quality tires like GP5k to round it all put.
This results in a wheelset that is 1725g +/- 30g that is super reliable, easy to service if ever needed, and fits modern tire sizes nicely.

I have a couple sets that apply.
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Old 07-29-20, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
what if u could have the gold standard of wheels
the Jonny Walker black of bicycle wheel.
not the lightest costliest, rarest fastest but Corvette of fast cars...just a good obtainable daily use wheelset.
what would it look like?
I ask because I'm loving my new sub 1600 gram with conti gator skins wheelset.

it just makes me smile. so smooth.
Like this

_IMG4968 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or this





or this

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or this

IMG_1248 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or these

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or these



All bikes except the Dean road bike use DT Swiss Alpine III triple butted spokes. The Dean uses Pillar triple butted spokes. The spokes are more important than any other part of the wheel. From top to bottom: Phil Wood FSC hub, Alpine III spokes, Velocity Deep V rims in red; White Industries MI5, Alpine spokes, Velocity Aeroheads in blue; Paul FHub disc (with Paul Rhub with rim brake in rear), Alpines (of course), Mavic XC717; White Industries MI5 disc, Alp, Mavic X717 disc rim; Phil Wood disc (with matching rear), A (getting tired of typing “Alpine”), Velocity Aeroheats; and, finally, White Industries H3 front and rear, Pillar spokes, Velocity A23 rim.

I use Wheel Fanatyk splined spoke nipples when possible. Some of these are older builds and have square spokes, however.

The wheels are all either 32 or 36 spoke wheels depending on intended use.
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Old 07-29-20, 06:13 PM
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Campy wheels without a doubt. Shamal Ultras please! I have a older set of Protons on one bike and Zondas on another and they both are great.

If I went the carbon route most definitely Boras. If I stayed aluminum the Shamals, no question.

Topped off with Veloflex, Pirelli or Vittoria tires.

Last edited by Mulberry20; 07-29-20 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 07-29-20, 06:24 PM
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The most important thing for me when choosing wheels is durability. I don't care about weight or bling. I use wheelsets that can handle some serous abuse. Here is a list of wheels that I have been using for a long time.

- Mavic EX 729 - 32 spokes
- DT Swiss TK 540 - 36 spokes
- SUN CR 18 - 36 spokes
- DT Swiss RL 520 - 32 spokes
- Weinmann DP 18 - 36 spokes
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Old 07-29-20, 06:32 PM
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I judge my wheels 5 years after I build them. Basicall I want trouble free.

Sun cr18 seem like a great diy friendly rim.
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Old 07-29-20, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Like this

_IMG4968 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or this





or this

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or this

IMG_1248 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or these

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

or these



All bikes except the Dean road bike use DT Swiss Alpine III triple butted spokes. The Dean uses Pillar triple butted spokes. The spokes are more important than any other part of the wheel. From top to bottom: Phil Wood FSC hub, Alpine III spokes, Velocity Deep V rims in red; White Industries MI5, Alpine spokes, Velocity Aeroheads in blue; Paul FHub disc (with Paul Rhub with rim brake in rear), Alpines (of course), Mavic XC717; White Industries MI5 disc, Alp, Mavic X717 disc rim; Phil Wood disc (with matching rear), A (getting tired of typing “Alpine”), Velocity Aeroheats; and, finally, White Industries H3 front and rear, Pillar spokes, Velocity A23 rim.

I use Wheel Fanatyk splined spoke nipples when possible. Some of these are older builds and have square spokes, however.

The wheels are all either 32 or 36 spoke wheels depending on intended use.
What type of mechanical disc brakes are you using ??...I don't think I've seen those before. How do they compare to Avid BB7s in terms of performance ??
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Old 07-29-20, 06:49 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
What type of mechanical disc brakes are you using ??...I don't think I've seen those before. How do they compare to Avid BB7s in terms of performance ??
Paul Klampers. They are better than BB7 but are they about $125 better? That depends. They work great. They are rebuildable and you can get arms to convert from short to long pull if you like. You can get them in colors. But they are expensive. I get a deal on them so the difference isn’t as much.
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Old 07-29-20, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
what if u could have the gold standard of wheels
the Jonny Walker black of bicycle wheel.
not the lightest costliest, rarest fastest but Corvette of fast cars...just a good obtainable daily use wheelset.
what would it look like?
I ask because I'm loving my new sub 1600 gram with conti gator skins wheelset.

it just makes me smile. so smooth.
If you want the Johnnie Walker Black of bike wheels, you probably want these.
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Old 07-29-20, 07:33 PM
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MaxKatt
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I think you’re trying to ID the Johnnie Walker Blue of wheels.
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Old 07-29-20, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
If you want the Johnnie Walker Black of bike wheels, you probably want these.
well no.
ya see my dear friend Jonny w black may not be ur thing however it is a predictable steady good daily whiskey by which many are compared....not say lagavulin 16.
u missed the point of my post.
slainte!
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Old 07-29-20, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
well no.
ya see my dear friend Jonny w black may not be ur thing however it is a predictable steady good daily whiskey by which many are compared....not say lagavulin 16.
u missed the point of my post.
slainte!
If you have to drink Johnnie Walker Black as your "daily whiskey," the you need to up your game. I might give that swill to my father-in-law, but not to a friend.
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Old 07-30-20, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
If you have to drink Johnnie Walker Black as your "daily whiskey," the you need to up your game. I might give that swill to my father-in-law, but not to a friend.
silly goose.
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Old 07-30-20, 05:32 AM
  #16  
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Is that rotor on backwards?
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Old 07-30-20, 05:49 AM
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Aluminum with semi-aero profile. Regardless of maker they seem to remain stiff and true longer than my old school low profile lightweight rims, those 1980s hard anodized clinchers from Araya and Wolber.

I have a set of Alexrims S500, 32 spokes on some no-name hubs, on my hybrid for bombed out pavement and gravel and they never seem to go out of true.

And a set of Mavic CXP-21 with Ultegra hubs. Really nice.

Ditto a set of Bontrager Race Lite Aero rims, 16 bladed spokes on DT Swiss 240s hubs on one road bike. I really expected those rims to be high maintenance but so far they haven't needed any attention -- no truing -- although the rear hub needs work.

After watching a video of a complete overhaul of a DT Swiss hub and seeing the tools and techniques needed to do it right, I think I'll stick with Shimano or similar loose bearing hubs now, unless the LBS can overhaul the DT Swiss hubs without it costing a fortune.
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Old 07-30-20, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
silly goose.
Cheers!

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Old 07-30-20, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Cheers!


back at ya. slainte!
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Old 07-30-20, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Pop N Wood View Post
Is that rotor on backwards?
Nope. The directional arrow is pointing the the proper direction.
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Old 07-30-20, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
The perfect wheelset for me would be 28/32 spokes, handbuilt, double butted j bend spokes, brass nipples, reliable light hubs, and rims that are 21-24mm wide and 26-30mm deep. Quality tires like GP5k to round it all put.
This results in a wheelset that is 1725g +/- 30g that is super reliable, easy to service if ever needed, and fits modern tire sizes nicely.

I have a couple sets that apply.
This sounds exactly right to me. An upgrade to some fancy hubs like Chris King would make them a really good single malt.
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Old 07-30-20, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
what if u could have the gold standard of wheels
the Jonny Walker black of bicycle wheel.
not the lightest costliest, rarest fastest but Corvette of fast cars...just a good obtainable daily use wheelset.
what would it look like?
I ask because I'm loving my new sub 1600 gram with conti gator skins wheelset.

it just makes me smile. so smooth.
Gatorskins will cost you 20 Watts at 20 MPH over faster tires making riding 10% more difficult. Even GP4 Seasons cost you 12-15W over the GP4000SII. Although Gatorskins don't ride like bricks (I'll reserve that for Specialized Armadillos), they are like dense clay.

SON 28 front dynamo hub so I don't need to deal with light battery changes on long rides and auxiliary packs to keep my GPS charged. The bearings are good for 50,000km. It has lower drag than other 3W hubs apart from the SON Delux, which it's preferable to because it makes more power at mountain climbing speeds.

Powertap SL+ rear. I train with power, it helps avoid burning matches that I'll be feeling over the next 100-200+ miles, and I can pace well with it when not using a heart rate monitor. It works with triple cranks for long rides where climbing mountains at an endurance pace keeps me fresh for what follows. It works with SPD pedals so stops like 24 hour grocery stores are trouble free.

Retro-reflective HALO powder coated Velocity Fusion rims. I want to look like a Christmas tree when riding at night. With beam stiffness proportional to the cube of depth 25mm is enough to limit bent rims, and in a sensible shape that gets me within a few Watts of a deep carbon rim at a 20 MPH cruising speed.

32 spokes. While spokes don't fail due to fatigue in properly built wheels, you can lose them for other reasons. With 32 I can ride with a brake release open when you're too time crunched to pull out your spoke wrench and make the wheel true enough to ride with it closed.

DT 2.0/1.5mm Revolution spokes. They'll let the wheel survive a bigger hit before going slack which allows the rim to move off center after which it collapses when the bump passes. Most if not all of the boutique wheels made without proprietary components use 2.0/1.5mm spokes (flattened into an aero shape) where they work well for riders well into Clydestale territory when used in sufficient numbers. DT has a smoother transition between thick and thin sections which looks nicer than Sapim or Wheelsmith. DT now sells the Competition Race 2.0/1.6 if you think 1.5mm is too thin. Other butted spokes through 2.0/1.8mm will also work.

Alloy nipples. They hold up fine with lubrication and spokes that aren't too short. I have a wheel set where they still turn smoothly after 9 years in Boulder, Colorado with road salt.

700x25 Continental GP4000SII tires. They don't seem to flat more than Gatorskins outside the rainy season, have low rolling resistance, provide a pleasant ride, and last 4500 miles in front plus 4500 in back (9000 total). Sidewall protection isn't good, although I haven't damaged one in over 28,000 miles since I switched.

13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-26 cassette. One tooth jumps through the 19 cog for flat terrain, and 30x26 is a low like 39x34 for mountains.

1 mil Kapton tape. Two wraps total 0.005" thick providing much more slack than .020" Velox and even .010" thin rim tapes. They allow hand installation of tires tight enough to cuss at tools. As an added bonus, it's the lightest least expensive rim tape.

Late 1990s/early 2000s Campagnolo Record skewers. Internal steel cam for clamping force. Spring loaded pads preventing nut rotation. Shiny polished finish. Attractive lever cutout. I keep a trainer skewer in back because I'm too lazy to swap.

Bicycle part finishes should be the same as the underlying material so they don't look bad once scratched. Aluminum hubs and stainless steel spokes should be silver. Aluminum rims too, although I made a functional exception for the retroreflective powder coat.

I should have built the rear cross-2 due to the large hub flanges. That would have avoided the need to correct spoke lines at the rim.

While a subdued anthracite color, the powder coat reflects light back in the direction from whence it came:

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 07-30-20 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 07-30-20, 08:47 AM
  #23  
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I have no business giving a comment in this thread. I'm generally frugal.

In my [somewhat limited] lifetime of experiences, my favorite wheels have invariably been found on donor bikes for which I paid nearly nothing. These are surprise finds after the crud and shredded tires are peeled away, revealing a surprisingly nice wheel beneath. Bonus!

I've also built a few sets of wheels that are pretty terrific for my purposes. I guess that my standards aren't high enough...
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Old 07-30-20, 08:52 AM
  #24  
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I just built my ideal set... Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I'm absolutely thrilled with them. Took me a couple of months to collect all the bits and pieces, and not a bit of carbon, anywhere. Wheels seem tough as nails for trouble free rides.

Rims: H Plus Son Archetype 700c Silver
Hubs: Chris King R45, drilled 32 front and back, Campy 11 speed, in the fastest color - red.
Spokes: Front and Rear NDS Sapim Laser 2.0/1.5/2.0, Rear DS Sapim Race 2.0/1.8/2.0
Tires: Conti GP5000 28mm

That buzz freewheel sound
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Old 07-30-20, 09:21 AM
  #25  
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than certainly this rotor is on backwards
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