Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Some people don't adjust well to changing technology, especially when their favorite technology gets left behind.

Originally Posted by BoraxKid

Let's see:

• claiming older technology is better than anything new
• claiming "no point" to new tech, while remaining completely ignorant to how new tech was created
• completely ignorant of why there is demand for new tech
• included mandatory xenophobic rant about "Chinese" manufacturing (while typing on a device that no doubt contains components made in China)
• included mandatory derision towards "advertising"
• implies self-superiority (because surely OP hasn't been "led by the nose" by those insidious "advertisers" right?)

okay, that's it. I scored a BOOMER BINGO!

where do I redeem my card?

Originally Posted by rydabent

I assume then you have embraced disc brakes instead of rim brakes?

Originally Posted by Trakhak

FYI, lugged construction was originally introduced as a cheap workaround, to cut down on the costs of accurate mitering of tubes and of training of skilled workers.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr

There is more than one way to skin a cat. Thats what all this comes down to.

What you like in a bicycle is different from what others like in a bicycle. I have many lugged frames and have lost count as to the number Ive owned, but I am able to see the inherent limitations in a lugged frame- its angles. Mountain bikes pushed lugless construction because the ideal geometries werent readily available in lugs and welding became more popular(as well as fillet brazing since Ritchey was the first for MTBs).
The removal of lugs has allowed for more than straight lines in frame construction. It has allowed for more than just circles in tube shapes.

Its ironic that someone named 'rydabent' is complaining that frames arent lugged anymore. The very style bike you named yourself after is built using welding.

As for carbon layup, Im not getting into your $.40/hour rant. Cite examples when it comes to pay and whatnot or dont get specific with numbers.

Originally Posted by vespasianus

You are surprised that advertising works?

Originally Posted by crankholio

I think one has to examine the motive behind the change. For instance, when the safety razor was offered as an alternative to the straight razor, it wasn't a bad idea. Far less likely to accidentally have your neck sliced open when your 90lb dog enthusiastically jumps on you because you forgot to lock the bathroom door. Then they had the 2-blade razors and 3-blade razors, like the Mach 3. Still a pretty good idea...closer shave, less passes. And then they added a 4th blade...and eventually a 5th blade. They may have 6 or 7 blades on razor heads now for all I know. And I bring this up because I see the same thing happening with bicycle drive trains.

Gears were a great idea. 7...8...even 9 cogs in the back. Sure. Then 10, then 11, then 12...maybe they have 20 in the rear now? I don't look at new bikes too often. But at some point, **** gets ridiculous and offers little practical benefit.

Originally Posted by rydabent

A couple of things. You seem to be very young, and dont appreciate the beauty and strength of lugged frames.

And calling me xenophobic simply for mentioning where 90%+ frame are made in modern day childish brainwashing.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

One thing the OP entirely misses is that "advertisers" (spawns of the devil) have convinced us that we don't need to ride 40-pound bikes. So they started making bikes out of Aluminum, can you believe it? And aluminum tubes, can be welded without lugs and have the same strength as a lugged steel frame of similar quality--while weighing less---like weight matters.

Obviously we need lugged steel frames---we NEED them. Nobody can safely ride a bike which doesn't have one. And all those people who have butt-welded Al frames which you have been riding for a decade or more---you have been FOOLED by Advertising. idiots!!

Oh, and the people riding custom steel which has been fillet-brazed, and is much lighter and stronger than almost all the mass-produced lugged frames which the OP so rightly thins are heaven-sent---you are idiots. Your lightweight high-performance frames with invisible joints are actually crap---Not the work of highly skilled craftsmen. Those people who can fillet-weld very thing steel tubes are real ROBOTS. Brazing thin-walled steel tubing so that the finished product is stronger and lighter than a comparable lugged frame is so easy even a robot could do it. it doesn't involve half a lifetime of learning.

Rydabent, you have tried twice with "11 speeds are better than 22" and now this. And you have succeeded masterfully. These are the subtlest h and most humorous posts I have read on Bikeforums. I am not surprised that everyone thought you were serious about these topics---your crafting is masterful, like unto a genius with a torch welding thin steel tubes. I bow down in honor of your talent.

Originally Posted by rydabent

As some one that can weld, yes they are. But why not post along side a picture of a frame set with beautiful scroll work brazed lugs.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

He is arguing that he liked being young, and things have changed, so rather than accepting that he is old now, he has decided to attack everything which has changed since he was young and "happy."

Except that in my experience, people who aren't happy when they are old didn't appreciate life when they were younger, either.

I am pretty old---not Rydabent old, but pretty old. I have learned that life is a one-way trip that gets shorter every day, and the slope gets steeper every day as the mind and body get weaker.

I am learning that I need to accept this, and adapt. And I have learned that not taking most things quite so seriously is a good start. If I go out to ride and my bike has a flat, no problem. At least I am still continent and ambulatory. And when I am no longer ... I will wheel around in my Depends in my wheelchair and try to enjoy what i can on that day.

I think Rydabent must have learned all this long ago---which is why he posts these subtly ironic and very humorous posts about how "everything was better back in the old days .... "

Yeah ... there is no way a man of his wisdom and experience could take these poss seriously .....

Originally Posted by Koyote

rydabent : Here's another modern innovation you might want to look into: It's called "Multi Quote."

Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider

people in advertising are good. they get us to do and buy all sorts of things. that's their job

Originally Posted by rydabent

But see there again is where you go wrong. I ponder and evaluate any and all "advancements", and make my own judgement free of advertising hype. I have been among other things a mechanical technician all my life. Reading this forum, you should know that I have been one of the leading proponents of disc brakes. In the 80s I immediately embraced click shifting. And of course I embraced recumbent bikes and trikes for their comfort and safety. Advancements truly need to be better, not just change for change sake, or to put more money into some people's pockets.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I think this post could make more sense to the poster if he thought about it more.

Personally, I have 7,9,10, and 11-speed cassettes. I find I can shift into a more appropriate gear more often when I have a better selection of gears.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Oh, and Mr. Ryda .... grats for keeping at it for so long. I may poke fun at you, but you have been doing your thing here and on to recumbents for a long time and I respect that.

Go on, bro ... . give those clouds a hard time.

Originally Posted by Retro Grouch

So your trike is lugged and brazed?

Originally Posted by rydabent

Do you really thing the chinese frame building sweat shops pay their people $15 to $25 per hour. If they did most America name brand bikes would be built her in the US.

Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider

people in advertising are good. they get us to do and buy all sorts of things. that's their job

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Multi Quote doesn't work well with DOS and a dial-up modem.

Originally Posted by Rides4Beer

You know your 'bent was made in Taiwan, right? Just because a company is based in the US, doesn't mean their stuff is MADE in the US.

Love my plastic bikes, with disc brakes and electronic shifting.

Originally Posted by Wildwood

Advertising - I can't not think of the current Big Pharma push. Thank goodness they have to state possible side effects in ads, not buried in the small print. When a possible side effect is Death, i wonder about the ethics of unregulated "advertising". Much of it is informative, some of it is BS and lies.

As it relates to bicycles advertising drives markets. A good thing. People want to believe that newer is better, safer and more pleasurable. The truth is the rider's skills and his/her engine is responsible for 95+% of the performance and safety - not a slightly lighter frame, or oval crankset, or carbon wheels, or those nearly flat 42mm 'road' tires, or lights or Garmins or Strava accounts. Advertising drives purchasing and we are a consumer economy, #1 in the world at buying whatever we are told is 'better'..

But don't listen to me, trust your advertiser.

Originally Posted by rydabent

My bike is a 9 speed (27) and my trike is an 8 speed (24). I really dont notice much difference at all. I mainly ride in the center ring up front and just shift across the rear cassette as fee dictates.