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Catapulting Disc Brakes

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Catapulting Disc Brakes

Old 09-03-20, 08:19 PM
  #26  
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No problem adjusting here, after decades on rim brake bikes.

YMMV
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Old 09-03-20, 10:07 PM
  #27  
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I have completely fallen for discs, they're really to me just the best way to go and I can't really find a fault in them. Cheap cable ones aren't that great, good cable are as decent as most any rim brake out there, cable actuated hydraulic are really nice and full hydraulic are great. I really like the fact that I can significantly slow down or stop with a single finger and no drama. It's why I converted my kids' MTBs to full hydraulic and they haven't gone over the bars with them yet either, cause for them with 1 finger on the lever they have good control of the bars and a good ability to modulate their speed which I also think reduces panic stopping and keeps things controlled.
If you have to panic stop it would be easier to endo with hydraulic but the technique is the same either way and it just hasn't been a problem.
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Old 09-03-20, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I know.

re-read the post, this happened back in the 80's when I was in my 20's and first starting out in cycling as transportation. The only bikes I rode before this was when I was a kid and used the old pedal-braking bikes.
From reading your posts it appears that you have retained your rear bias approach to braking. Your front brake is your primary brake when you need to stop quickly. If you have to stop in a panic situation, you need to lower yourself on the bike. best to be on the drops of your bars and to shift weight backwards if you have time. Straighten your arms to brace yourself so that you can fully use your front brake and not shift forward on the bike. Stay on the saddle, it is your lowest position possible. Disc brakes don't change this basic technique, but they have more power and much better modulation especially at high speeds. Use both brakes simultaneously, you will find that if you do this you will have to release pressure on the rear brake to keep the rear tire from skidding as you increase pressure on your front brake
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Old 09-03-20, 11:17 PM
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Catapults work by converting stored potential energy into velocity, but in your case the kinetic energy was diverted, so it’s probably more accurate to say you were levered OTB.

Disc brakes on my bikes, fwiw
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Old 09-04-20, 04:51 AM
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I've gone over the handlebars of many bikes; never was it the fault of the brakes (of any kind). This isn't an "equipment" thing, it's a "skills" thing. Once you objectively identify the true source of a problem; you have a good chance of avoiding it in the future. However, if one chooses to ignore the true root cause for reasons of vanity or ignorance, one must always be prepared to suffer the same problem over and over.

Last edited by nomadmax; 09-04-20 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 09-04-20, 09:00 AM
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I grew up riding 50 pound reverse the pedals for brakes bikes. When I got my first rim brake bike I never even came close to throwing myself over the handle bars.

Not a worry now on my bent and trike.
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Old 09-04-20, 09:10 AM
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Newton's first law: a body in motion will remain in motion , until acted upon by an opposing force..
the opposing force stopped the bike, not the rider's body..

Perhaps the locked front wheel rotated the rest of the bike around it, ?






Last edited by fietsbob; 09-04-20 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 09-04-20, 09:34 AM
  #33  
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I slide my backside back. But if you cannot look this up. Got the idea to google anti lock brakes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cne...s-to-bicycles/

let the lawsuits begin.
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Old 09-04-20, 09:58 AM
  #34  
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For everyone's info,

I never blamed the brakes/equipment, if you read my posts you'll see that I simply had a little bit of a learning curve when I first started riding a bike back in the mid-80's; unfortunately I wasn't an expert rider, like some here, from the get-go

I don't need anymore tactics on how to prevent myself flying OTB; I understand how to use both brakes and shifting my body weight for safely stopping; furthermore, I do understand that the front brake provides most of the stopping power.

I think this thread has run its course, unless of course anyone has any more info/experience to share on their transition from traditional brakes to discs. That's all I wanted to know. Please, no more "Expert Riders" need to post.



.
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Old 09-04-20, 10:37 AM
  #35  
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there will be a learning curve for disc brakes too. it will take a few minutes of going and stopping before you have mastered it. there's no way to explain that in text. just ride a new bike, starting slow and easy until you get a feel for how the brakes operate.

you will only go OTB if you do the same thing on your disc brake bike that you did with a rim brake bike: too much weight on the front end combined with too much brake. it sounds like you already learned that lesson. don't sweat it.

Last edited by mack_turtle; 09-04-20 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 09-04-20, 04:17 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
Finally, someone that can describe the braking feel of discs vs. traditional brakes.

Very helpful input, thank you!

.
It also depends on what type of bike. With a modern short lever mountain bike, use only your index finger for braking. If you use your whole hand, then yes, you'll stop the wheel instantly. The advantage of using one finger is that you can modulate the braking force very quickly, and with high-precision.
With a modern disc brake, there's a small initial dead-zone, followed by a very linear region of braking up to the limit. Because the disc doesn't have any wobble, the braking force is very consistent and it's not grabby as you approach the limit. Rim brakes can be similar, but generally require near perfect truing, welded rims with a machined seam and very small rim to pad gaps.
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Old 09-04-20, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by work4bike
Did you even read my OP? I guess some of us just start out cycling as an expert. And yes, the times I've been catapulted or nearly catapulted were in panic situations.

Boy, I just love all the freakin' exerpts on this website

Interesting, maybe if we get a Harley rider in here he/she can speak to the issue of slamming on the front brakes at speed...



.
The one time I rode a cable drum braked Harley for a week, all I ended up with was a strong right wrist, the brake lever was more useful as a wrist exerciser than as a method of ret@rding my progress. But then some would say all Harley riders have a strong right wrist, except the left handed ones. In any case, the only way I'd be going over the bars on that bike is if I hit a low brick wall, and even then I think the spindly front forks would act more like a crumple zone.
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Old 09-04-20, 05:04 PM
  #38  
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Right now the bikes that I ride have caliper, disc, and coaster brakes. Every bike brakes a bit differently.

This may sound a bit extreme, but whenever I'm on an unfamiliar bike, or have repaired the wheels / brakes on a bike that I own, I get a feel for how the brakes behave before putting on too many miles.
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Old 09-04-20, 05:06 PM
  #39  
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I haven't read all the posts but.....has anyone suggested setting up the front brake for your "weak" hand? This may prevent a "catapult" scenario when SHTF.....
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Old 09-05-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedway2
I haven't read all the posts but.....has anyone suggested setting up the front brake for your "weak" hand? This may prevent a "catapult" scenario when SHTF.....
most bikes in the US are already set up with the front brake operated with the “weak hand” - in a population 90% right-handed, bike come standard left-front.
after decades of rim brakes, I built an MTB with decent cable-op discs (BB-7s) - enough to convince me of the merits of discs. The main difference was the lack of effort needed to stop - most of the time I could get by with one-fingered braking - two fingers if I wanted to really haul. My rim brakes (‘99 Chorus dual-pivots with KS Salmons) can lock up the wheels, they just take significantly more effort to do so. It’s certainly worth a little “effort recalibration” when switching braking systems. I notice this also when switching between a modern car and my ‘72 TR6 - the Triumph’s brakes are hydraulic and power-assisted, but they still need some serious leg power for a hard stop. They even designed the rear drums to be crappy - their baked-in inability to lock up the rear wheels was a “safety feature” in the pre-ABS era. One of the best bangs for the buck, braking-wise, is to replace the stock rear cylinders with bigger ones - measurably decreases braking distance. After driving the Triumph for a while, my first couple of brakes in a regular car are a bit choppy until I recalibrate back to efficient modern brakes that require vastly less push

Last edited by Litespud; 09-05-20 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 09-05-20, 07:10 PM
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Things that are real.
Good disc brakes take way less force to operate than rim brakes. That's partly why they caught on in the MTB world. You can 1 finger brake whilst bouncing down a rough track, using the other 3 fingers to hang on. The other good reasons for disc in MTB: a buckled rim isn't a day ender. Mud doesn't wear your rim out. Moving suspension doesn't do weird stuff to the brake feel if the cable routing gets janky.
All of these things aren't so important on the road. But I can see reduced braking force being nice for braking from the hoods.
Incidentally, we don't have a epidemic of disc induced catapults in the part of the world where we use the right hand for the front brake... I think braking mostly with the left hand is weird and dangerous because I'm not used to it.
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Old 09-05-20, 07:20 PM
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For a little fun and completely "on topic". The topic being "Catapulting Disc Brakes"

If instead of launching those discs with a catapult and watching them tumble down end-over-end, try slinging them. Get a nice fast spin and a launch just above horizontal and you should be able to get most of a football field from your launch.

On second thought, you may find you lose a lot of discs doing it my way.
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Old 09-05-20, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
T...
Incidentally, we don't have a epidemic of disc induced catapults in the part of the world where we use the right hand for the front brake... I think braking mostly with the left hand is weird and dangerous because I'm not used to it.
Right on! That said, I am firmly left hand - front brake simple because, by the time I had thought about it, I was racing and changing what I knew and had trained on as reflex was asking to take myself and others out.

My opinion - all new bikes should be sold as right - front with the ability to swap easily - for left handers and folks like me that are too far along to re-learn safely.

Ben
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Old 09-05-20, 10:18 PM
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Not sure if this is a troll post.

You nerd to learn that you need to brace yourself when braking. In addition shift weight rearward. You can even get your butt behind the saddle if needed.

The type of brake is irrelevant. Good disc brakes are just stronger, but modulate better. For hydraulics you only use the index finger, easy to modulate.
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Old 09-06-20, 07:39 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
If you have to stop in a panic situation, you need to lower yourself on the bike. best to be on the drops of your bars and to shift weight backwards if you have time. Straighten your arms to brace yourself so that you can fully use your front brake and not shift forward on the bike. Stay on the saddle, it is your lowest position possible. Disc brakes don't change this basic technique, but they have more power and much better modulation especially at high speeds. Use both brakes simultaneously, you will find that if you do this you will have to release pressure on the rear brake to keep the rear tire from skidding as you increase pressure on your front brake
Originally Posted by HerrKaLeun
You nerd to learn that you need to brace yourself when braking. In addition shift weight rearward. You can even get your butt behind the saddle if needed.
It seems to me that if a cyclist has enough time and advance warning of a need to make the various changes in body geometry ​​​​​ suggested prior to making a "panic stop", a "panic stop" would be unnecessary.
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Old 09-06-20, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It seems to me that if a cyclist has enough time and advance warning of a need to make the various changes in body geometry ​​​​​ suggested prior to making a "panic stop", a "panic stop" would be unnecessary.
Practice is the key. Making those changes in body position then becomes second nature and you don't have to think about it
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Old 09-06-20, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It seems to me that if a cyclist has enough time and advance warning of a need to make the various changes in body geometry ​​​​​ suggested prior to making a "panic stop", a "panic stop" would be unnecessary.
you do that at the same time.
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Old 09-06-20, 12:50 PM
  #48  
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I've flown over the bars a few times. Usually from a rock or root that stops me cold. Once from a pile of other riders that went down immediately in front of me. Hood of a car, twice. A curb. A snowdrift or two.

Never from grabbing a fistful of all the brake I could get. Canti's, V, Magura Rim, mech disc, hydro, you name it.

If anything, I think the greater modulation of hydro discs prevents raising that rear wheel.

My dad broke his wrist over the bars. Cheap V brakes that were always really grabby. Possibly from Canti levers, not sure.

I think if your system is well adjusted and it's not your first day (5 minutes) on the bike, it's fine.
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Old 09-06-20, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GAtkins
One of the things they really made a point of is "looking where you want to go" and not down near the front wheel or straight ahead in a curve, for example. You will go where you are looking.
“In racing, they say that your car goes where your eyes go.”—Garth Stein, “The Art of Racing in the Rain”. If you’re a dog lover it’s a must-read.
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Old 09-07-20, 07:18 PM
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I don't see the need or attraction of disk breaks on bikes. They are complicated, expensive and, as demonstrated in this thread, dangerous.

Rim brakes simple, reliable cheap and proven to do the job without the dangers mentioned above.

Who needs them?
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