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Catapulting Disc Brakes

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Catapulting Disc Brakes

Old 09-28-20, 05:16 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
The problem is you squeezing the front too hard, not that you squeezed it first.
Another problem (at least for non "pro jocks) is that controlled modulation and/or proper sequencing of front/rear brake application, as well as other enthusiast recommended techniques sometimes suggested on BF like shifting body weight to the rear prior to application of front brakes is easier said (or performed in practice drills in an empty parking lot) than done suddenly in traffic during an unplanned emergency/panic braking situation.
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Old 09-28-20, 05:22 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
I'm not knocking coaster brakes, I've got them on one of my bikes. Great for casual rides.

But I really like disc brakes when riding in rain, snow, slush, mud, gravel, .... The disc brakes make it easier to control the bike when rim brakes can struggle. And this makes disc brakes less "pro jock" and safer for the average dork on a bike in non-sunny conditions.
I really like a rear coaster brake especially when riding in rain, snow, slush; I don't ride gravel or mud. Always reliable, no adjustment or maintenance required, ever.

I really don't like the idea of braking the front wheel on a slippery surface, especially in a turn.

I am sure disc brakes are good but I wouldn't want one on the front wheel.
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Old 09-28-20, 06:50 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Homebrew01
The problem is you squeezing the front too hard, not that you squeezed it first.
Yes, I know...Like I said a long time ago. I was relating to when I first started cycling over 30-years ago.
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Old 09-28-20, 07:46 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by SurferRosa
What about that time when you were captured by the french after scaling the castle walls and were catapulted back on your own troops, fatally injuring the chaplain and standard bearer.
HAHAHAHAHA...yeah forgot about that.
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Old 09-28-20, 07:48 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
What modifications did you have to make your bike to accommodate that enormous chip on your shoulder?
As long as he just adjusts how he carries the extra weight before braking he shouldn't need to worry about catapulting.
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Old 09-28-20, 08:12 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Another problem (at least for non "pro jocks) is that controlled modulation and/or proper sequencing of front/rear brake application, as well as other enthusiast recommended techniques sometimes suggested on BF like shifting body weight to the rear prior to application of front brakes is easier said (or performed in practice drills in an empty parking lot) than done suddenly in traffic during an unplanned emergency/panic braking situation.
Which is why I rely on only my front brake. I only use the rear (in combo with the front) when traction is at a serious premium like on steep gravel or wet intersections.

Last edited by Ferrouscious; 09-28-20 at 08:16 PM.
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Old 09-28-20, 09:39 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by jack pot
The standard bearer had been with us since Agincourt. He carried the gift of tongues and in the whisper of a holy ghost wished me caution. Their deaths are small reminders that faith & absolution are short lived. Alas, I am now a knight without sword or shield... Learnath my lesson friends, know how to stop and how to slow and never risk a catapult's blow.
^ This, friends ... and others. Heed this sacred warning! Heed, lest ye catapult thyself over thine bars, into a godless world of contempt. And, ultimately ... death.

Ecclesiastes 13:1 Learn to slide, skid upon thy rear, and thou shall inherit the kingdom of heaven.

God be praised!
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Old 09-30-20, 09:51 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Perhaps sales of bicycles with brakes that require lessons from pros like Greg Lemond to be used safely should be limited to "pro jocks."

Selling bicycles as safe, normal and ready for general use by the public that in fact may require special techniques and training to be used safely sounds like a page out of the Corvair chapter of Unsafe at Any Speed by Ralph Nadar.
This doesn't make a lot of sense unless you think that people don't need to spend time learning/practicing how to ride in the first place.

The vague "general public" typically aren't going that fast ("emergency" braking is kind of moot for them). People often have very little idea of how to use the gears on the bicycles they buy. Some of them will avoid using the front brake due to concerns about "catapulting" and have little idea that it's the front brake that is really what is stopping the bike.

So, the notion that some of them wouldn't benefit from work on understanding and technique is bizarre. (There are certainly some who ride infrequently or slowly that it doesn't really matter.)

It's not that hard or time consuming to practice braking some.

Last edited by njkayaker; 09-30-20 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 09-30-20, 10:10 AM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I really like a rear coaster brake especially when riding in rain, snow, slush; I don't ride gravel or mud. Always reliable, no adjustment or maintenance required, ever.

I really don't like the idea of braking the front wheel on a slippery surface, especially in a turn.

I am sure disc brakes are good but I wouldn't want one on the front wheel.
The thing you're missing about disc brakes is that the braking action is much smoother and more consistent. The extremely high mechanical advantage of hydraulics makes the braking application less prone to surface contamination, and because the disc is steel, it doesn't get pitted. Also, because the disc is separate from the rim it's significantly less prone to damage from curbs and other things that will slightly warp a rim.
All of that means that there's no sudden change in braking force as the wheel rotates. What throws people over the bars is when the brakes suddenly grab. Variation in braking force is a bad thing, always, and rim brakes are much more prone to that variation.

Also, sizing of the brake disc is a good way to change the braking forces. With a standard 160mm disc, it takes a very firm grip to go OTB.
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Old 09-30-20, 10:47 AM
  #110  
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Dovetailing this thread with the "Are there any decent Walmart bikes?" thread: Some cheap bikes have a disk brake in front and rim brakes in the rear.

Just imagine the consternation those might cause the OP!
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Old 09-30-20, 10:51 AM
  #111  
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I keep seeing recommendations on how much force to use on front or rear, but what I'm not seeing is the simplest way to do that - 2 fingers on the front lever, 1 finger on the rear.
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Old 09-30-20, 10:52 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy
Dovetailing this thread with the "Are there any decent Walmart bikes?" thread: Some cheap bikes have a disk brake in front and rim brakes in the rear.

Just imagine the consternation those might cause the OP!
Like how disc front, drum rear was standard on a lot of cars for a long time.
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Old 09-30-20, 11:02 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Like how disc front, drum rear was standard on a lot of cars for a long time.
I'm surprised none of us have ever flipped a car end-over-end the first time we drove one with that kind of brakes!
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Old 09-30-20, 11:06 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
I keep seeing recommendations on how much force to use on front or rear, but what I'm not seeing is the simplest way to do that - 2 fingers on the front lever, 1 finger on the rear.
How does one wave in that situation?
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Old 09-30-20, 11:40 AM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
How does one wave in that situation?
By doing one of those slight nods that leaves the recipient wondering whether I actually nodded at them, and thus unsure whether they should respond, of course.
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Old 09-30-20, 03:36 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
One finger braking allows you to better modulate the brakes and gives you a better grip on the bar.
Right. Keeps me from locking up the rear without having to think about how much pressure I'm applying to each lever.
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Old 09-30-20, 03:41 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by work4bike
I've been riding for over 30 years and have yet to try out the relatively new Disc Brakes. In the early years I catapulted over the handlebars on at least two occasions and nearly catapulted at least two other times, before it became instinct for me to squeeze the rear brake first.

I'm curious how easy is it to catapult using front disc brakes (compared to traditional brakes)? I'm wondering if my current methodical use of traditional brakes, where I brake first with rear brakes, then employ the front brakes would smoothly cross over to use of disc brakes.

(I guess this question is best for riders that rode many years with traditional brakes, that recently have transitioned over to discs). .
(I hope I can say this without offense. Please believe that I'm only trying to be helpful, I don't mean to lecture or to be insulting in any way. And, I do not believe I'm saying anything you don't already know, but maybe it'll help to hear it from someone else?)

I agree that it sounds like your concern that using disk brakes could make it easier to "catapult" yourself over the bars (OTB) if you grab too much brake is a valid one. I would suggest that you break the habit of grabbing too much brake before you switch to disk brakes because, as you say, all things being equal disk brakes stop the wheel more quickly with less effort in most conditions. If you're used to applying a certain amount of pressure during hard braking using a caliper brake (just an example) and then apply the same pressure on a disk brake during hard braking your risk of going OTB would increase. As to "how easy is it to go OTB using disk brakes?", that is not answerable, as it is impossible for me or anyone else to know what "easy" and "hard" mean to you. Easier than with calipers/cantis/v-brakes, that's all I can say.

The only way to break a bad habit, AFAIK, is to practice good habits so that they supplant the bad habits. Since you've been riding for 30 years this may take some time. Maybe practice hard stops at stop signs and lights during a ride (when safe, obviously)? Practice sessions where you work exclusively on hard braking would help with technique, but it sounds like you already know the technique, you just have trouble applying it in an emergency, so from what you're saying it would seem that this wouldn't help you as much as practicing in the "real world". Not that an occasional session working specifically on hard braking would hurt, maybe throw in a couple if you haven't done any hard braking in an while just as a refresher. Of course, once you have ingrained good braking habits and you've switched to disk brakes, you WILL be doing specific hard braking drills until you learn how much pressure to apply to the lever in an emergency.

I'm puzzled as to why you apply the back brake first in a panic stop situation. Yes, the back brake will slow you down with no risk of going OTB, and with less risk of washing out a wheel and going down if the wheel locks. But in a situation where the back brake is not enough to slow you down sufficiently, applying the back brake first just wastes time that you could use towards getting your body into the proper position and applying (and modulating) the front brake. This makes it more likely that either (a) you'll have to brake even harder, increasing the risk of going OTB, or (b) you'll run out of time/distance and hit what you were trying to avoid. On dry pavement, I don't know why you would apply the rear first in a panic stop situation. If you're on a low-friction surface (wet, gravel, snow), then sure, it is best to use the back brake first and then apply the front judiciously, but that's to avoid washing out the front wheel, it has nothing to do with going OTB.

Hope I've helped.
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Old 09-30-20, 06:38 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
There's no need, nor reason, to run two fingers on one brake and one finger on the other.
Thank you, oh wise one, for yet another pearl of your own personal opinion, stated as if it were immutable law.
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Old 09-30-20, 08:18 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
There's no need, nor reason, to run two fingers on one brake and one finger on the other.
Guess I better stop doing that then. Where can I sign up for your riding lessons?
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Old 09-30-20, 08:42 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by HD3andMe
Well, you, and the other poor guy can start out by making sure that you're using quality brakes.

After that, you can spend as much time as you need shedding yourself of the need to rely on two fingers on the brakes.

If countless newbie high school kids can learn to successfully brake with only one finger, I have great hope for both of you guys!
This is 'murica...we can brake however we damn please. As much of a jerk as I am I'm blown away you feel the need to push this 'one way or the highway' method of braking. Lighten up and let people do what they're comfortable with.
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Old 09-30-20, 08:54 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Thank you, oh wise one, for yet another pearl of your own personal opinion, stated as if it were immutable law.
There is no rule people have to be nice, but going out of their way to be rude is so unnecessary. Itís bad enough we have to listen to it in politics that we have to see it here. Please be kind.
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Old 09-30-20, 09:40 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by rsbob
There is no rule people have to be nice, but going out of their way to be rude is so unnecessary. Itís bad enough we have to listen to it in politics that we have to see it here. Please be kind.
That was exactly my thinking. Hence the sarcastic reply.
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Old 09-30-20, 09:58 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Guess I better stop doing that then. Where can I sign up for your riding lessons?
And the funny thing is, I had literally just given him a reason.

And a quick review of videos of pros indicates they apparently have much to learn from this guy, since so many of them use two fingers. Indeed, I saw some using 2 for the front and 1 for the back, as I do. Pity we're all so inexperienced, eh?
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Old 10-01-20, 05:59 AM
  #124  
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It's purely by dumb blind luck we haven't all snapped our necks in crashes by now!
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Old 10-01-20, 10:25 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Originally Posted by HD3andMe
There's no need, nor reason, to run two fingers on one brake and one finger on the other.
Thank you, oh wise one, for yet another pearl of your own personal opinion, stated as if it were immutable law.
??? You don't really need to do it (even if you choose to do it).

Originally Posted by genejockey
And a quick review of videos of pros indicates they apparently have much to learn from this guy, since so many of them use two fingers. Indeed, I saw some using 2 for the front and 1 for the back, as I do. Pity we're all so inexperienced, eh?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bike...U2F-IM24VYq0cM

Originally Posted by cxwrench
Guess I better stop doing that then. Where can I sign up for your riding lessons?
??? You don't really need to do it (even if you choose to do it).

Originally Posted by cxwrench
This is 'murica...we can brake however we damn please. As much of a jerk as I am I'm blown away you feel the need to push this 'one way or the highway' method of braking. Lighten up and let people do what they're comfortable with.
Whatever people say in a forum, they aren't not letting you do anything.

Last edited by njkayaker; 10-01-20 at 10:30 AM.
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