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Why is steel out of favour?

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Why is steel out of favour?

Old 09-23-20, 07:03 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
Grant Petersen, is that you?

Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.

I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
Steel has quite a few advantages over other frame materials, but you apparently don't have the experience to recognize them.
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Old 09-23-20, 07:16 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Thats total BS. High end steel frames are actually lighter than carbon frames. It has a lot of advantages, most notably a top custom steel frame is about $3,500 whereas a custom carbon frame non monocoque frame is two or three times as much.
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.

Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Steel has quite a few advantages over other frame materials, but you apparently don't have the experience to recognize them.
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.

It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'

Last edited by djcookie; 09-23-20 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 09-23-20, 07:52 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.



"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.

It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
I've seen most of the five posts you've made on bf, and they all seem to be about things you hate, and about insulting the people who like those things. That's pretty sad.
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Old 09-23-20, 07:59 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
I'm struggling to make sense of those three sentences.
There is no sense to those sentences. It was all in jest for yet another no steel bike thread.

Sorry you took it seriously and wrote a few paragraphs in response.

John
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Old 09-23-20, 10:27 PM
  #30  
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Itís not that steel per se is outdated. Itís the method of construction- welding tubes together to make a frame, that is outdated. The new aluminum frames are hydro formed. This allows them to make complex 3D shapes which are aerodynamic and have strength and flexibility in the desired places.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
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Old 09-23-20, 10:38 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Thats total BS. High end steel frames are actually lighter than carbon frames. It has a lot of advantages, most notably a top custom steel frame is about $3,500 whereas a custom carbon frame non monocoque frame is two or three times as much.

All my bikes have steel frames. They are of varying quality from decent production to high quality production to handmade custom.
I have yet to come across a steel frame that is lighter than carbon frames of similar quality and design.
Its a 600-900 difference, actually.
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Old 09-23-20, 10:44 PM
  #32  
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Gee I don’t have any, nor would I consider any, that aren’t steel. Guess I’m not trendy.
Tim
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Old 09-23-20, 10:44 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Itís not that steel per se is outdated. Itís the method of construction- welding tubes together to make a frame, that is outdated. The new aluminum frames are hydro formed. This allows them to make complex 3D shapes which are aerodynamic and have strength and flexibility in the desired places.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
Steel tubes are ovalized and bi-oval too. Hydroforming aluminum tubes is a gimmick on some bikes, and beneficial on others due to aluminum tubes needing to be massive for strength.
As for aero, the incremental difference of an aero frame is just not appreciated by most enthusiast cyclists.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:28 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.



"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.

It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'

What's the deal with you and Grant Petersen anway? Did he steal your lunch money or something?

All I know is that my '90s steel racing bikes are faster than hell and yes, they look really, really good.

Sorry if you can't handle a 53/42 crankset. Apparently, my geriatric legs are a bit stronger than yours.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:31 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I've seen most of the five posts you've made on bf, and they all seem to be about things you hate, and about insulting the people who like those things. That's pretty sad.
And that's not including his deleted posts.
Troll is trolling.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:41 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
All my bikes have steel frames. They are of varying quality from decent production to high quality production to handmade custom.
I have yet to come across a steel frame that is lighter than carbon frames of similar quality and design.
Its a 600-900 difference, actually.
Yes that sounds about right. But it is possible to make a steel bike that's under the UCI weight limit. There was a UK pro team who were/are competing on Reynolds 953 frames made by Genesis.

For ultimate performance in a race you'd always want CF but steel is a fine choice for every other kind of bike.
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Old 09-24-20, 01:44 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Steel tubes are ovalized and bi-oval too. Hydroforming aluminum tubes is a gimmick on some bikes, and beneficial on others due to aluminum tubes needing to be massive for strength.
As for aero, the incremental difference of an aero frame is just not appreciated by most enthusiast cyclists.
TBH I think most of the ovalizing on steel frames is a bit of a gimmick too.
​​​​​
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Old 09-24-20, 04:05 AM
  #38  
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Here's your hydroformed steel
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258433
https://steelworks.bike/
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Old 09-24-20, 05:47 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
Try a better bike, like a Rivendell.
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Old 09-24-20, 06:15 AM
  #40  
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I think I'd love to have another 4130 chromoly frame again!!
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Old 09-24-20, 06:36 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
Grant Petersen, is that you?
did anyone else notice how suddenly djcookie suddenly appeared on this forum and establish him/herself as a troll? does cookie have some kind of creepy personal vendetta against Grant Petersen? every other cookie post is about Grant Petersen. it's really quite odd.

Last edited by mack_turtle; 09-24-20 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 09-24-20, 06:49 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.



"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.

It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
Yay! Another forum poster on my ignore list...
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Old 09-24-20, 06:53 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Also, nobody's won a TdF on steel since Indurain. Why do you suppose that is?
There are probably a lot of reasons, but what does the type of bike that winning racers are being paid to ride have to do with the experience of the average recreational cyclist?
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Old 09-24-20, 07:21 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
did anyone else notice how suddenly djcookie suddenly appeared on this forum and establish him/herself as a troll? does cookie have some kind of creepy personal vendetta against Grant Petersen? every other cookie post is about Grant Petersen. it's really quite odd.
It's even weirder--the OP in the bike is bad exercise thread started by cookie was almost a verbatim steal from Just Ride.

Last edited by livedarklions; 09-24-20 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 09-24-20, 07:23 AM
  #45  
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djcookie is Grant Petersen!
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Old 09-24-20, 07:28 AM
  #46  
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Old 09-24-20, 07:32 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by John_V View Post

Is that an aluminum bat?
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Old 09-24-20, 07:58 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
Whoa, that is beautiful.
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Old 09-24-20, 08:17 AM
  #49  
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Why is steel out of favor?

I challenge the premise. Favor with who?

I only ride to please one person.
That one person knows that tire size and inflation determines the ride quality much more than any other attribute. Frame material isn’t even second in ride quality.

I spend a fair amount of $$$ on quality tubular road tires. Money well spent.

If you want to appreciate ‘ride quality’ keep 15 roadies ready to go (steel, CF, Ti, Al) and compare them with every outing. You will end up buying better rubber!

Steel is not out of favor here.






Last edited by Wildwood; 09-24-20 at 08:29 AM.
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Old 09-24-20, 09:15 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.



"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.

It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'

You've clearly never even been in the same room as a high end steel bike, much less ridden one.
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