Why is steel out of favour?
09-23-20, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
Grant Petersen, is that you?
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
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09-23-20, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20
Thats total BS. High end steel frames are actually lighter than carbon frames. It has a lot of advantages, most notably a top custom steel frame is about $3,500 whereas a custom carbon frame non monocoque frame is two or three times as much.
Originally Posted by Koyote
Steel has quite a few advantages over other frame materials, but you apparently don't have the experience to recognize them.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
Last edited by djcookie; 09-23-20 at 07:20 PM.
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09-23-20, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
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09-23-20, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak
I'm struggling to make sense of those three sentences.
Sorry you took it seriously and wrote a few paragraphs in response.
John
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09-23-20, 10:27 PM
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It’s not that steel per se is outdated. It’s the method of construction- welding tubes together to make a frame, that is outdated. The new aluminum frames are hydro formed. This allows them to make complex 3D shapes which are aerodynamic and have strength and flexibility in the desired places.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
09-23-20, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20
Thats total BS. High end steel frames are actually lighter than carbon frames. It has a lot of advantages, most notably a top custom steel frame is about $3,500 whereas a custom carbon frame non monocoque frame is two or three times as much.
All my bikes have steel frames. They are of varying quality from decent production to high quality production to handmade custom.
I have yet to come across a steel frame that is lighter than carbon frames of similar quality and design.
Its a 600-900 difference, actually.
09-23-20, 10:44 PM
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Gee I don’t have any, nor would I consider any, that aren’t steel. Guess I’m not trendy.
Tim
Tim
09-23-20, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee
It’s not that steel per se is outdated. It’s the method of construction- welding tubes together to make a frame, that is outdated. The new aluminum frames are hydro formed. This allows them to make complex 3D shapes which are aerodynamic and have strength and flexibility in the desired places.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
As for aero, the incremental difference of an aero frame is just not appreciated by most enthusiast cyclists.
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09-24-20, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
What's the deal with you and Grant Petersen anway? Did he steal your lunch money or something?
All I know is that my '90s steel racing bikes are faster than hell and yes, they look really, really good.
Sorry if you can't handle a 53/42 crankset. Apparently, my geriatric legs are a bit stronger than yours.
09-24-20, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote
I've seen most of the five posts you've made on bf, and they all seem to be about things you hate, and about insulting the people who like those things. That's pretty sad.
Troll is trolling.
09-24-20, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
All my bikes have steel frames. They are of varying quality from decent production to high quality production to handmade custom.
I have yet to come across a steel frame that is lighter than carbon frames of similar quality and design.
Its a 600-900 difference, actually.
I have yet to come across a steel frame that is lighter than carbon frames of similar quality and design.
Its a 600-900 difference, actually.
For ultimate performance in a race you'd always want CF but steel is a fine choice for every other kind of bike.
09-24-20, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Steel tubes are ovalized and bi-oval too. Hydroforming aluminum tubes is a gimmick on some bikes, and beneficial on others due to aluminum tubes needing to be massive for strength.
As for aero, the incremental difference of an aero frame is just not appreciated by most enthusiast cyclists.
As for aero, the incremental difference of an aero frame is just not appreciated by most enthusiast cyclists.
09-24-20, 04:05 AM
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Here's your hydroformed steel
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258433
https://steelworks.bike/
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258433
https://steelworks.bike/
09-24-20, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
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09-24-20, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
Grant Petersen, is that you?
Last edited by mack_turtle; 09-24-20 at 06:54 AM.
09-24-20, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
09-24-20, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Also, nobody's won a TdF on steel since Indurain. Why do you suppose that is?
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09-24-20, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mack_turtle
did anyone else notice how suddenly djcookie suddenly appeared on this forum and establish him/herself as a troll? does cookie have some kind of creepy personal vendetta against Grant Petersen? every other cookie post is about Grant Petersen. it's really quite odd.
Last edited by livedarklions; 09-24-20 at 07:33 AM.
09-24-20, 07:28 AM
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09-24-20, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by John_V
Is that an aluminum bat?
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09-24-20, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris
Here's your hydroformed steel
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258433
https://steelworks.bike/
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258433
https://steelworks.bike/
09-24-20, 08:17 AM
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Why is steel out of favor?
I challenge the premise. Favor with who?
I only ride to please one person.
That one person knows that tire size and inflation determines the ride quality much more than any other attribute. Frame material isn’t even second in ride quality.
I spend a fair amount of $$$ on quality tubular road tires. Money well spent.
If you want to appreciate ‘ride quality’ keep 15 roadies ready to go (steel, CF, Ti, Al) and compare them with every outing. You will end up buying better rubber!
Steel is not out of favor here.
I challenge the premise. Favor with who?
I only ride to please one person.
That one person knows that tire size and inflation determines the ride quality much more than any other attribute. Frame material isn’t even second in ride quality.
I spend a fair amount of $$$ on quality tubular road tires. Money well spent.
If you want to appreciate ‘ride quality’ keep 15 roadies ready to go (steel, CF, Ti, Al) and compare them with every outing. You will end up buying better rubber!
Steel is not out of favor here.
Last edited by Wildwood; 09-24-20 at 08:29 AM.
09-24-20, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by djcookie
I see you took Grant Petersen's math class, too.
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
"Just Ride," right? It's heavy, it rusts, it's overly flexy, yeah, great list of attributes for a bike frame.
It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
You've clearly never even been in the same room as a high end steel bike, much less ridden one.
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