Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Why is steel out of favour?

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Why is steel out of favour?

Old 09-24-20, 09:24 AM
  #51  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 14,662

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8676 Post(s)
Liked 5,278 Times in 3,048 Posts
Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Yes that sounds about right. But it is possible to make a steel bike that's under the UCI weight limit. There was a UK pro team who were/are competing on Reynolds 953 frames made by Genesis.

For ultimate performance in a race you'd always want CF but steel is a fine choice for every other kind of bike.
yes a steel frame can be built under uci weight.
I still am not sure what steel frame is lighter than equal level carbon frames though, which is what I disagreed with.

Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
TBH I think most of the ovalizing on steel frames is a bit of a gimmick too.
​​​​​
an oval top tube will flex more vertically and not laterally.
a bi-oval downtube will help resist bottom bracket twist.

While these are known, I'm not sure how much it actually matters and affect the ride compared to plain round tubes of equal butting.
So in that view, I could see it as a gimmick just like an aero frame is proven, but so incrementally small that it effectively doesn't help a lot of cyclists.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 09:37 AM
  #52  
John_V 
Senior Member
 
John_V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 5,585

Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 408 Post(s)
Liked 121 Times in 85 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Is that an aluminum bat?
mmmmm! A new BF discussion - aluminum vs wooden bats.
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily

2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
John_V is offline  
Likes For John_V:
Old 09-24-20, 10:42 AM
  #53  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5,682
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5331 Post(s)
Liked 7,977 Times in 3,447 Posts
Originally Posted by John_V View Post
mmmmm! A new BF discussion - aluminum vs wooden bats.
My bat is made of double-butted lugged steel.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 09-24-20, 10:47 AM
  #54  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 391 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
My bat is made of double-butted lugged steel.
I prefer Fillet braised bats myself. Less chance of foul balls.
Wileyone is offline  
Likes For Wileyone:
Old 09-24-20, 11:25 AM
  #55  
LV2TNDM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 629

Bikes: Cannondale tandems: '92 Road, '97 Mtn. Mongoose 10.9 Ti, Kelly Deluxe, Tommaso Chorus, Cdale MT2000, Schwinn Deluxe Cruiser, Torker Unicycle, among others.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 95 Posts
The difference between today's steel alloys and the stuff up through the eighties and early nineties is pretty big. Not to say the older steel wasn't great. My SLX Tommaso is still a joy to ride.

But the air hardening steel alloys of today are pretty damn amazing. Light, strong and responsive. One local frame builder I worked for never used the traditional brace between the chain stays at the BB shell. Consumers and LBS people complained occasionally, thinking he left it off due to laziness. Not.a.chance.

In the old days, a steel rear triangle was kinda fragile. Re-spacing dropouts was done with ease. Cannondale bragged how strong their rear triangles were by showing a rider crouched on the rear dropouts of a bare frame lying on the ground and said, "If you did this to a steel frame, it would collapse!" or something to that effect. And they were right.

Well, that ain't the case today! Or at least with the steel frames I was tasked with working on. The True Temper rear triangles were BEASTS! I often had to re-space cross frames from 130mm to 135. So that's just 2.5mm change at each dropout. Well, it took ALL my 200 lbs and strength to get these things to budge. And this was with all the right tools, frame table, etc. And again, no chain stay bridge. And this was the thinner stayed road/cross frame model. The mountain frame chain stays were even beefier. Luckily, I never had to change spacing on them; doing so would have required a press. So today's steels are in a completely different arena. There's really no comparison to the previous chrome molybdenum steels of yesteryear.

Problem is, the industry has (or says it has) "moved on" to bigger and better things. Progress, technology, carbon fiber is "space-age" stuff, blah, blah, blah. Steel lost its sex appeal decades ago (for the average, less-knowledgeable consumer). Those of us who know quality bikes & frames still have a great appreciation of quality steel frames. And luckily for us, they're still widely available, if mostly at the boutique level. That said, it's nice to see the big manufacturers like Surly, AllCity, etc. keep the consumer steel market going. Even the big manufacturers have resumed steel production after abandoning it over a decade ago.

Steel is still real, but you won't find it adorning many full-page ads in the latest cycling rag.
LV2TNDM is offline  
Likes For LV2TNDM:
Old 09-24-20, 11:25 AM
  #56  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,635

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7115 Post(s)
Liked 7,234 Times in 4,060 Posts
Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
I prefer Fillet braised bats myself. Less chance of foul balls.

You're Off-topic--we're discussing the proper tool for beating dead horses.
livedarklions is offline  
Likes For livedarklions:
Old 09-24-20, 11:32 AM
  #57  
LV2TNDM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 629

Bikes: Cannondale tandems: '92 Road, '97 Mtn. Mongoose 10.9 Ti, Kelly Deluxe, Tommaso Chorus, Cdale MT2000, Schwinn Deluxe Cruiser, Torker Unicycle, among others.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 217 Post(s)
Liked 149 Times in 95 Posts
Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
Itís not that steel per se is outdated. Itís the method of construction- welding tubes together to make a frame, that is outdated. The new aluminum frames are hydro formed. This allows them to make complex 3D shapes which are aerodynamic and have strength and flexibility in the desired places.
If and when they figure out a way to hydroform high strength steel I guarantee you steel will be back with a vengence.
Thyssenkrup is doing exactly this with steel:
https://bikerumor.com/2019/07/18/thy...tweight-steel/

And to say welding tubes together is outdated is simply wrong. Welding air hardening steels increases strength at the heat-affected zone, avoiding many of the shortcomings of previous steel tubes. Welding metals is far from something manufacturers don't do any more.

And hydroformed frames are STILL WELDED! Thyssendrup welds the two halves of the frames together. So much for "outdated" manufacturing processes!
LV2TNDM is offline  
Likes For LV2TNDM:
Old 09-24-20, 11:45 AM
  #58  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 11,865

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6575 Post(s)
Liked 6,929 Times in 3,544 Posts
Ah, *ping!* of the bat, the roar of the crowd.....
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 12:26 PM
  #59  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 391 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Ah, *ping!* of the bat, the roar of the crowd.....
The "Fake" crowd that is.
Wileyone is offline  
Likes For Wileyone:
Old 09-24-20, 02:05 PM
  #60  
icemilkcoffee 
Senior Member
 
icemilkcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,403
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 824 Post(s)
Liked 676 Times in 410 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
And hydroformed frames are STILL WELDED! Thyssendrup welds the two halves of the frames together. So much for "outdated" manufacturing processes!
I didn't say welding is outdated. I said welding off the shelf tubes together is outdated. The link you had about Thyssenkrupp developing pressed/formed steel is exactly what I was talking about- this is the way forward for steel. Hopefully their technology will lead somewhere.

Meanwhile for today's craft steel frame makers, they should start doing more of this:


And less of this:
icemilkcoffee is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 02:37 PM
  #61  
Germany_chris
Iím a little Surly
 
Germany_chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Germany
Posts: 2,014

Bikes: Two Cross Checks and a Karate Monkey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 923 Times in 479 Posts
I think what always gets forgotten in threads like this is second look factor. If your goal is to build the fastest bike possible composite frames are where it's at, layup changes, fiber changes, et. al. can built just about the perfect bike for any weight and any power output to go fast but something is lost. If I go to *pick a builder* tell that person what I'm looking for and what I want to do they're going to mix and match tubes to make that happen, if lugs give you a pants tent then you can get those, if one of a kind is your jam you can have that, If your inner weight weenie needs voice that can make that happen no matter what you choose from a steel Speedvagen with all the bits and bobs to a Rivendell with a technomic it's going to make you look back at it. There are bikes that are tools and there are bikes that are feel and that's where the disconnect starts. If your goal is racing you need to decide if you want to race a clock or the dude next to you if Brevets get your juices flowing than get a nice steel frame, if you live for the peloton and the chess that comes with it there's nothing better than a composite.

We all view bikes and our reasons for riding them differently, I'm very much a utility kinda guy I see beauty in a nice steel frame whether it's a Kirk or a Surly just like I see beauty in a Sebenza, a Sinn, and a Jeep but I no chit get it if you don't. I want to throw crap on my bike and Jeep and see stuff, I want to live in no where Alaska, I want quiet, camp fires, and self reliance but I really do get the need for culture, people and great restaurants.

Just pick your thing and have at it, it's the coolest thing about being a grown-up, we get to make our history and our life.
Germany_chris is offline  
Likes For Germany_chris:
Old 09-24-20, 03:33 PM
  #62  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 824
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 288 Post(s)
Liked 210 Times in 173 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
The difference between today's steel alloys and the stuff up through the eighties and early nineties is pretty big. Not to say the older steel wasn't great. My SLX Tommaso is still a joy to ride.

But the air hardening steel alloys of today are pretty damn amazing. Light, strong and responsive. One local frame builder I worked for never used the traditional brace between the chain stays at the BB shell. Consumers and LBS people complained occasionally, thinking he left it off due to laziness. Not.a.chance.

In the old days, a steel rear triangle was kinda fragile. Re-spacing dropouts was done with ease. Cannondale bragged how strong their rear triangles were by showing a rider crouched on the rear dropouts of a bare frame lying on the ground and said, "If you did this to a steel frame, it would collapse!" or something to that effect. And they were right.

Well, that ain't the case today! Or at least with the steel frames I was tasked with working on. The True Temper rear triangles were BEASTS! I often had to re-space cross frames from 130mm to 135. So that's just 2.5mm change at each dropout. Well, it took ALL my 200 lbs and strength to get these things to budge. And this was with all the right tools, frame table, etc. And again, no chain stay bridge. And this was the thinner stayed road/cross frame model. The mountain frame chain stays were even beefier. Luckily, I never had to change spacing on them; doing so would have required a press. So today's steels are in a completely different arena. There's really no comparison to the previous chrome molybdenum steels of yesteryear.
They're mostly still basically chrome molybdenum. Those rear triangles might have been heat-treated CrMo which does make it harder to bend them. The "air hardening" steels (Reynolds 631 and the heat-treated version, 853) are supposed to be a bit stronger in the heat affected zone around the weld than you would get with CrMo which is very cool, but in practice the tube and butt profiles are about the same as for CrMo steels, and the ultimate tensile strength of the alloy is about the same as CrMo.

And CrMo is only slightly stronger than Reynolds 531 which just about everything (from mid-level to high end) was made of forever. The main difference is you can't weld 531. We had heat-treated steels back in the 70s as well (Reynolds 753 for example).

So they're all better now than they were, but not by very much, until you get to the super high-zoot stainless alloys but those are tricky to work with and rarely used.

You can always re-space a rear triangle with a piece of threaded rod and a few nuts. Crank it out to about 160mm for a 130 or 165mm for a 135mm and it will spring back to about the right place. But it's quite a good idea not to use heat-treated steel for the rear triangle anyway, especially if you have to dimple it, and you always have to re-space a bit when building the frame.

Reynolds have the really sweet pencil-thin road seatstays which are 0.6mm wall available as 525 (regular CrMo) or 725 (the same thing heat-treated). There's no reason not to just use the 525 ones-- the 725 aren't any thinner wall or lighter. Just less ductile.
guy153 is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 03:42 PM
  #63  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,212

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1625 Post(s)
Liked 1,097 Times in 640 Posts
Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
Grant Petersen, is that you?

Steel doesn't have any advantages relative to any other frame material, and has several significant disadvantages, especially weight and perhaps flex as well.

I've read lots of comments about how "compliant" or forgiving steel is, but the steel bikes I've ridden weren't any more comfortable than aluminum frames.
I am not particulary inclined to any frame material but that is wrong. There are differences.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 03:45 PM
  #64  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,212

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1625 Post(s)
Liked 1,097 Times in 640 Posts
=It's a great frame material for the geriatric set who get misty eyed at the sight of skinny steel pipes and ornate lugs. Add a quill stem and 53/42 crankset, and, and, and "oooooooh!'
Wrong again.

Last edited by cb400bill; 09-25-20 at 12:52 PM.
bruce19 is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 05:16 PM
  #65  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 1,683

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked 790 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I am not particulary inclined to any frame material but that is wrong. There are differences.
indeed - but differences in materials are so overshadowed by frame design and tires theyíre almost academic
Litespud is offline  
Likes For Litespud:
Old 09-24-20, 05:20 PM
  #66  
Litespud
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Chapel Hill NC
Posts: 1,683

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Vortex Chorus 10, 1995 DeBernardi Cromor S/S

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 644 Post(s)
Liked 790 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
I think what always gets forgotten in threads like this is second look factor. If your goal is to build the fastest bike possible composite frames are where it's at, layup changes, fiber changes, et. al. can built just about the perfect bike for any weight and any power output to go fast but something is lost. If I go to *pick a builder* tell that person what I'm looking for and what I want to do they're going to mix and match tubes to make that happen, if lugs give you a pants tent then you can get those, if one of a kind is your jam you can have that, If your inner weight weenie needs voice that can make that happen no matter what you choose from a steel Speedvagen with all the bits and bobs to a Rivendell with a technomic it's going to make you look back at it. There are bikes that are tools and there are bikes that are feel and that's where the disconnect starts. If your goal is racing you need to decide if you want to race a clock or the dude next to you if Brevets get your juices flowing than get a nice steel frame, if you live for the peloton and the chess that comes with it there's nothing better than a composite.

We all view bikes and our reasons for riding them differently, I'm very much a utility kinda guy I see beauty in a nice steel frame whether it's a Kirk or a Surly just like I see beauty in a Sebenza, a Sinn, and a Jeep but I no chit get it if you don't. I want to throw crap on my bike and Jeep and see stuff, I want to live in no where Alaska, I want quiet, camp fires, and self reliance but I really do get the need for culture, people and great restaurants.

Just pick your thing and have at it, it's the coolest thing about being a grown-up, we get to make our history and our life.
well said - this isnít a zero-sum game. Thereís a frame material and bike design for every person and every situation. Long may it continue
Litespud is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 05:55 PM
  #67  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 391 Posts
Oh my God guys, just go ride your bikes
Wileyone is offline  
Likes For Wileyone:
Old 09-24-20, 06:47 PM
  #68  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,635

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7115 Post(s)
Liked 7,234 Times in 4,060 Posts
Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Oh my God guys, just go ride your bikes
I just rode a nice 25 on my Serotta, weird-shaped steel chain stays and all.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 07:01 PM
  #69  
Mulberry20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 733
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked 199 Times in 136 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I just rode a nice 25 on my Serotta, weird-shaped steel chain stays and all.
I have a 13 year old Serotta that is my daily bike. It has Campy Chorus on it. Iíve been offered $3,700 for it. Not sure anyone would want a carbon bike that was 13 years old, just saying.
Mulberry20 is offline  
Likes For Mulberry20:
Old 09-24-20, 07:06 PM
  #70  
Wileyone 
Senior Member
 
Wileyone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: GWN
Posts: 2,532
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1853 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 391 Posts
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I just rode a nice 25 on my Serotta, weird-shaped steel chain stays and all.
I took my Holdsworth out this morning and never once did I think I would rather be on anything else.
Wileyone is offline  
Likes For Wileyone:
Old 09-24-20, 07:52 PM
  #71  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 22,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 2,369 Times in 1,669 Posts
the current market has a niche for steel, but it's not the cheap bikes of old. It's upscale. Almost all the cheap bikes are aluminum.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 08:57 PM
  #72  
Jax Rhapsody
Rhapsodic Laviathan
 
Jax Rhapsody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 933

Bikes: Rideable; 83 Schwinn High Sierra. Two cruiser, bmx bike, one other mtb, three road frames, one citybike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
Liked 100 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by adlai View Post
When I was looking at old steel frames on eBay they often had dents in them. Aluminum doesn't seem to have dents.

Alu is also rust resistant.

It also looks oversized.
Depending on the aluminum, they will be, like the Cannondale r series and it's fat tubes. Not to mention tube shape.
Jax Rhapsody is offline  
Old 09-24-20, 09:46 PM
  #73  
rsbob 
Sniveling Weasel
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 2,963
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1071 Post(s)
Liked 1,995 Times in 1,155 Posts
Rode this bad boy today just for the helluvit. Not a round tube to be found. The cows liked it but wanted to know about the saddle. I told them synthetic.

After getting a new wheel set with Conti 5000s for the carbon, the Gatorskins will be going. Enjoy the differences between the bikes.



Is that a leather saddle?
__________________
Immoderate Cyclist ďNo regertsĒ



rsbob is offline  
Likes For rsbob:
Old 09-25-20, 04:28 AM
  #74  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,635

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7115 Post(s)
Liked 7,234 Times in 4,060 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
the current market has a niche for steel, but it's not the cheap bikes of old. It's upscale. Almost all the cheap bikes are aluminum.

Not at Walmart. A lot , maybe most, of the really cheap ones are steel. Kent and Huffy especially.
livedarklions is offline  
Old 09-25-20, 04:39 AM
  #75  
livedarklions
High Performance Noodler
 
livedarklions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 13,635

Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM

Mentioned: 59 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7115 Post(s)
Liked 7,234 Times in 4,060 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Rode this bad boy today just for the helluvit. Not a round tube to be found. The cows liked it but wanted to know about the saddle. I told them synthetic.

After getting a new wheel set with Conti 5000s for the carbon, the Gatorskins will be going. Enjoy the differences between the bikes.



Is that a leather saddle?
I'm going to have to fully inspect and vet that bike. About 6k miles riding it should do. Let me know when you will drop it off.

Cow's tag on the right looks like she's been labeled as a pig.
livedarklions is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.