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Why is steel out of favour?

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Why is steel out of favour?

Old 09-25-20, 09:04 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
Thyssenkrup is doing exactly this with steel:
https://bikerumor.com/2019/07/18/thy...tweight-steel/

And to say welding tubes together is outdated is simply wrong. Welding air hardening steels increases strength at the heat-affected zone, avoiding many of the shortcomings of previous steel tubes. Welding metals is far from something manufacturers don't do any more.

And hydroformed frames are STILL WELDED! Thyssendrup welds the two halves of the frames together. So much for "outdated" manufacturing processes!
That Thyssenkrup frame is interesting. It's not nearly as high strength steel as what is usually used on bike frames. I think they said 390MPa somewhere. Mid-range Columbus or Reynolds tubes are more like 800MPa. I guess they need something more ductile to be able to stamp out the shape like that. I doubt the finished frame is as nice as a regular steel frame.

And yes welding is certainly not outdated! Brazing with oxy-acetylene torches largely is outside the world of framebuilding however. But it still works very well especially on bikes.
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Old 09-25-20, 09:17 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by icemilkcoffee View Post
I didn't say welding is outdated. I said welding off the shelf tubes together is outdated. The link you had about Thyssenkrupp developing pressed/formed steel is exactly what I was talking about- this is the way forward for steel. Hopefully their technology will lead somewhere.

Meanwhile for today's craft steel frame makers, they should start doing more of this:
It's hard to beat cold-drawn seamless tubes for strength-to-weight ratio. This is why you see them used in roll-cages. What Thyssenkrupp are doing is a great way to mass-produce car bodies where strength to weight is important, especially as crash-testing and emissions-testing both become stricter, but not such a high priority. It is certainly impressive that they are now in the ballpark where they can make a bike frame but I doubt it's actually as good. All this stuff about how you can design the structure to be stiff where you need it etc. is something you say if your method of manufacture happens to allow that but I doubt it's significant enough to make up for the difference in wall thickness and weight.
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Old 09-25-20, 10:33 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I have a 13 year old Serotta that is my daily bike. It has Campy Chorus on it. Iíve been offered $3,700 for it. Not sure anyone would want a carbon bike that was 13 years old, just saying.
Perhaps, but a 13 year old, high end steel bike stands at nearly the pinnacle of steel frame development, whereas by comparison carbon fiber is a much newer technology that has changed considerably in the last 13 years. And of course there's a substantial amount of nostalgia for steel - see this thread for example - that doesn't exist for CF. Yet.

Note - I have two steel bikes and two CF. The two steels are in a three-way tie with one of the CFs for 'Favorite Bike'. Each one has the edge for favorite till I ride one of the others. The other CF bike? Close Fourth. But definitely fourth.
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Old 09-25-20, 10:49 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Perhaps, but a 13 year old, high end steel bike stands at nearly the pinnacle of steel frame development, whereas by comparison carbon fiber is a much newer technology that has changed considerably in the last 13 years. And of course there's a substantial amount of nostalgia for steel - see this thread for example - that doesn't exist for CF. Yet.

Note - I have two steel bikes and two CF. The two steels are in a three-way tie with one of the CFs for 'Favorite Bike'. Each one has the edge for favorite till I ride one of the others. The other CF bike? Close Fourth. But definitely fourth.
13 years from now carbon bikes being sold today wonít be rideable because so many parts are non-standard and the main areas of stress are quite questionable IMO. But great wall art.
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Old 09-25-20, 11:23 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
13 years from now carbon bikes being sold today wonít be rideable because so many parts are non-standard and the main areas of stress are quite questionable IMO. But great wall art.
Not so sure about that, bicycle history is littered with standards that are no longer supported; Italian bottom brackets, 120mm rear wheel spacing, freewheels, various seat post sizes, down-tube indexed shifters, etc. There are always workarounds and those will exist in the future for current technology.
Carbon bikes have been on the market for over 30 years and many of the mass-produced brands are still reliably on the road such as the classic Trek 5500. Lastly, since almost all of the current higher-end steel road bikes utilize carbon forks and other critical carbon components will you banish them to the wall as well in 13 years?
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Old 09-25-20, 11:51 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
Not so sure about that, bicycle history is littered with standards that are no longer supported; Italian bottom brackets, 120mm rear wheel spacing, freewheels, various seat post sizes, down-tube indexed shifters, etc. There are always workarounds and those will exist in the future for current technology.
Carbon bikes have been on the market for over 30 years and many of the mass-produced brands are still reliably on the road such as the classic Trek 5500. Lastly, since almost all of the current higher-end steel road bikes utilize carbon forks and other critical carbon components will you banish them to the wall as well in 13 years?
Lots of Companies still make Italian BB also freewheels. Most high end bikes still use a 27.2 seat post size.

Not sure where you are getting your info from...
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Old 09-25-20, 11:59 AM
  #82  
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steel will never be out of favour, or favor
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Old 09-25-20, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
Not so sure about that, bicycle history is littered with standards that are no longer supported; Italian bottom brackets, 120mm rear wheel spacing, freewheels, various seat post sizes, down-tube indexed shifters, etc. There are always workarounds and those will exist in the future for current technology.
Carbon bikes have been on the market for over 30 years and many of the mass-produced brands are still reliably on the road such as the classic Trek 5500. Lastly, since almost all of the current higher-end steel road bikes utilize carbon forks and other critical carbon components will you banish them to the wall as well in 13 years?
I banished carbon forks years ago because of looks.

Most of the components will be fine just like most of the bikes probably will, the standards are a concern of mine also but weíll see how it all washes in a couple years
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Old 09-25-20, 12:49 PM
  #84  
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Steel has been around awhile. I don't think it is going out of favour anytime. I don't have an aluminum or carbon bike in my garage, there have been a couple pass through, but none have stuck around.
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Old 09-25-20, 12:55 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Wileyone View Post
Lots of Companies still make Italian BB also freewheels. Most high end bikes still use a 27.2 seat post size.

Not sure where you are getting your info from...
I think you missed my point trying to prove yours. There will always be workarounds for legacy technologies and this will continue going forward. Solutions to press-fit BB's or whatever items you are concerned do and will exist.
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Old 09-25-20, 12:59 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Perhaps, but a 13 year old, high end steel bike stands at nearly the pinnacle of steel frame development, . .
I would disagree with that statement. I think the high end steel bikes being made now (think Battaglin) make steel bikes of 10 years ago look like junkers.
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Old 09-25-20, 01:09 PM
  #87  
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I'm 40, and all the bikes I actually ride are steel. So steel is stylish in my household.
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Old 09-25-20, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I have a 13 year old Serotta that is my daily bike. It has Campy Chorus on it. Iíve been offered $3,700 for it. Not sure anyone would want a carbon bike that was 13 years old, just saying.
I'd love to see that bike!
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Old 09-25-20, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Rode this bad boy today just for the helluvit. Not a round tube to be found. The cows liked it but wanted to know about the saddle. I told them synthetic.

After getting a new wheel set with Conti 5000s for the carbon, the Gatorskins will be going. Enjoy the differences between the bikes.



Is that a leather saddle?
Nice, you don't see too many Fondriests around. Matter of fact I can't remember the last time I saw one. I have a P4 that I use as a trainer bike.
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Old 09-25-20, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
I'd love to see that bike!
here you go, getting ready for 7 times around Central Park as we speak.
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Old 09-25-20, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
I have a 13 year old Serotta that is my daily bike. It has Campy Chorus on it. Iíve been offered $3,700 for it. Not sure anyone would want a carbon bike that was 13 years old, just saying.
Apparently, it looks like a junker.

Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
I would disagree with that statement. I think the high end steel bikes being made now (think Battaglin) make steel bikes of 10 years ago look like junkers.
Not to me, of course, but as I mentioned I love my steel bikes, too, even though the youngest is twice as old as that sweet Serotta.
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Old 09-25-20, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
here you go, getting ready for 7 times around Central Park as we speak.
Beautiful!
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Old 09-25-20, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Apparently, it looks like a junker.



Not to me, of course, but as I mentioned I love my steel bikes, too, even though the youngest is twice as old as that sweet Serotta.
At the park, I live across the street.

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Old 09-25-20, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
At the park, I live across the street.

Looks like the same generation of Chorus I used to build up my Battaglin.

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Old 09-25-20, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
I would disagree with that statement. I think the high end steel bikes being made now (think Battaglin) make steel bikes of 10 years ago look like junkers.
Please explain. To my knowledge, the last ten years have brought no advancements in the metallurgy of bike frames nor in the methods used for assembling them.
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Old 09-25-20, 02:51 PM
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I really like my modern steel bike. Here are some thoughts on design...

https://fairlightcycles.com/strael-c...v=79cba1185463


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Old 09-25-20, 04:04 PM
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I am pretty happy with my GURU Sidero. 17 lbs. 12 oz and a joy to ride.
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Old 09-25-20, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Please explain. To my knowledge, the last ten years have brought no advancements in the metallurgy of bike frames nor in the methods used for assembling them.
Not sure I would agree. The Columbus XCR tube set is fairly new. It is the only seamless, stainless steel tube set available and it is lighter and stronger than any metal tub set. Walls can be a thin as .4 mm. The Cicli Barco reviewd in the link is 17.7 lbs with Barcoís in house stainless fork. A carbon fork would probably bring it to flat 17. That bike is specíd to the gills and came in at 12k. A new Trek Domane weighs 20lbs.

Honestly, would you pick a 12k Giant, Specialzed or Trek over that gorgeous, custom, handmade Italian beauty?

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review

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Old 09-25-20, 04:28 PM
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[QUOTE=genejockey;21713443]Looks like the same generation of Chorus I used to build up my Battaglin.

[]

My group set has a lot carbon bits sprinkled throughout.
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Old 09-25-20, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
Apparently, it looks like a junker.



Not to me, of course, but as I mentioned I love my steel bikes, too, even though the youngest is twice as old as that sweet Serotta.
No my point is that the peak of steel bike production (in terms of quality) was not 50, 20 or 10 years ago. The modern steel bikes that are being made are lighter, stiffer, more comfortable and I would argue more beautiful than ever.
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