Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Rivendell Bike Works: "Black Reparations Pricing"

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Rivendell Bike Works: "Black Reparations Pricing"

Old 10-03-20, 10:59 AM
  #126  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,657
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
"Saying that you don't see race is insulting to every person of color on the face of the earth. " This is a blanket statement spoken from emotion, not rationale. My ancestors were judged by their skin color, their looks, their customs. My parents raised me to approach life differently, to approach people the same way I see myself. Sure I have been called racist names, mocked, and excluded, however it did not stop me from rising above and succeeding. I guarantee am not the only person of color (I hate that term, but feel I must speak in your language construct to get my point across) who feels this way. It is time to trash the negative attitude toward others and life, and get on with living.

MLK is still banging on the coffin lid trying to get people to fully understand his message. Hearts are so hardened in this world.
Pretty ironic preaching about race and referencing the great MLK while at the same time telling a total stranger what he has seen or should see with his own eyes.
Good stuff
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 11:40 AM
  #127  
BillyD
Administrator
 
BillyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 30,727

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92

Mentioned: 314 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10121 Post(s)
Liked 3,996 Times in 2,248 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
When your kids had slumber parties, you made them all go to bed at 10pm, didn't you?
Yes. Was that a bad thing?
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
BillyD is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 11:58 AM
  #128  
spdntrxi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Bay Area ,CA
Posts: 1,702

Bikes: Parlee,BMC,Specialized and Trek

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
"Saying that you don't see race is insulting to every person of color on the face of the earth. " T(snip).
No it's not. It's not to be taken so strictly literally either. You probably know this.
spdntrxi is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 12:04 PM
  #129  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,260

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 994 Times in 661 Posts
Who knew that there was so much virtue on the Bike Forums?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Likes For I-Like-To-Bike:
Old 10-03-20, 12:23 PM
  #130  
woodcraft
Senior Member
 
woodcraft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nor Cal
Posts: 6,015
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1814 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 919 Times in 567 Posts
Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
Of course it's hyperbole.
But I really do think that the Critical Theorists are utterly wrong, using fallacious reasoning to derive incoherent conclusions from faulty premises. When you explicitly and proudly mix Foucault and Derrida into a base of Marx and Freud, you're going to produce nonsense that pretends to be wisdom. Critical Theorists are Humanities academics who present themselves as Social Scientists, but where they really belong is in the Ag department.

--Shannon

Any links to what you find less utterly wrong?
woodcraft is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 01:31 PM
  #131  
tkamd73 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
Posts: 1,594

Bikes: 1984 Schwinn Supersport, 1988 Trek 400T, 1977 Trek TX900, 1982 Bianchi Champione del Mondo, 1978 Raleigh Supercourse, 1986 Trek 400 Elance, 1991 Waterford PDG OS Paramount, 1971 Schwinn Sports Tourer, 1985 Trek 670

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 527 Post(s)
Liked 723 Times in 393 Posts
Got the email from Riv Thursday, unsubscribed them. It will be permanent!
Tim

Last edited by tkamd73; 10-03-20 at 04:11 PM.
tkamd73 is offline  
Likes For tkamd73:
Old 10-03-20, 01:45 PM
  #132  
TiHabanero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,824
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1429 Post(s)
Liked 873 Times in 462 Posts
spdntrxi, I am a literate person and understand what was written. Unfortunately for me, I suppose, I am unable to read the unintended meaning of "It is an insult to every person of color..."

"Pretty ironic preaching about race and referencing the great MLK while at the same time telling a total stranger what he has seen or should see with his own eyes. " I fail to see the irony. Please elaborate.
TiHabanero is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 01:52 PM
  #133  
ShannonM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Humboldt County, CA
Posts: 649
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 284 Times in 193 Posts
Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Any links to what you find less utterly wrong?
On current race race relations: Kmele Foster, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, Thomas Chatterton Williams, Glenn Loury. (Not a comprehensive list, kinda ordered form liberal to conservative as I perceive them, but all are interesting.)

On Critical Race Theory: McWhorter again, also James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose. (Their new book "Cynical Theories" is the only intellectual history of this movement I know of that was written by people who are qualified to have an opinion but aren't part of it.) I also highly recommend Lindsay's "Translations From the Wokeish," an online dictionary of Critical Theory terminology based on the academic literature in the relevant fields. It's on his site "New Discourses." The articles on the front page are pretty hit-and-miss.. depends on the authors. But the dictionary is very, very good.

It's hard to find good material on Critical Race Theory. So much discussion of it, pro and con, is ill-informed hysterical ranting by people with a large platform and a tiny clue. And the intentional framing of CRT as "the way that all good people think about race now," so that anyone who disagrees is by definition a racist, doesn't help.

Rest assured, one's moral standing is not dependent on the degree to which one agrees with Ibrahm Kendi and Robin DiAngelo... although it can sure seem that way.

--Shannon
ShannonM is offline  
Likes For ShannonM:
Old 10-03-20, 01:54 PM
  #134  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 5,327
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5078 Post(s)
Liked 7,435 Times in 3,226 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Who knew that there was so much virtue on the Bike Forums?
Virtue is a good thing, you know.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 10-03-20, 02:01 PM
  #135  
LV2TNDM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 619

Bikes: Cannondale tandems: '92 Road, '97 Mtn. Mongoose 10.9 Ti, Kelly Deluxe, Tommaso Chorus, Cdale MT2000, Schwinn Deluxe Cruiser, Torker Unicycle, among others.

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 208 Post(s)
Liked 136 Times in 89 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Perhaps Mercedes Benz and BMW will institute reparations pricing on their high priced products to the descendants of victims of their country's race based discrimination. They might even use calipers on their prospective customers' facial features in their showrooms to assure themselves that only people of the right race get the discount.
The big difference is that Germany outlaws public display of Nazi propaganda and statuary. Only in legit museums. In the US, slavery owners and traitors against the country are memorialized in statues by the thousands. Swastikas are not flown publicly like Confederate flags, nor are they incorporated into a state flag. There are no famous 70's TV shows about a two crazy guys in a Porsche with a Swastika on the top running from the cops, and when someone makes a gaffe, says, "Oh, those good old Menchen!!!" Germany actively teaches its youth about their previous generations' transgressions. It has accepted its sordid history and has chosen to learn from it.

In the US, we're so busy shouting "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!" we cannot possibly accept the fact that we have flaws and need to improve.
LV2TNDM is offline  
Likes For LV2TNDM:
Old 10-03-20, 02:06 PM
  #136  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,824

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,175 Times in 794 Posts
regarding "I Don't See Color"

"Saying you don’t see color disregards the privilege and power of the dominant racial group of society, therefore diminishing feelings of bias, prejudice, and racism experienced by people of color."
- from Why The "I Don't See Color" Mantra Is Hurting Your Diversity and Inclusion Efforts


"Well, I'm Black and I want you to see me. . . . I want you to appreciate this color I so proudly wear that was handed down to me by my ancestors that survived the Middle Passage, then survived the atrocities of slavery that our country never wants to really discuss. . . . When you say to me, "I don't see color." that proves to me that you and I live in completely different realms of reality because while living in America I can never not see color because I am constantly reminded of mine."
- from Why I Hate the Phrase "I don't see color"

Last edited by FiftySix; 10-03-20 at 02:10 PM.
FiftySix is offline  
Likes For FiftySix:
Old 10-03-20, 02:13 PM
  #137  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,824

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,175 Times in 794 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
There are no famous 70's TV shows about a two crazy guys in a Porsche with a Swastika on the top running from the cops, and when someone makes a gaffe, says, "Oh, those good old Menchen!!!"
Forgive me, but I can't help but think of John Banner playing Boss Schwein now.
FiftySix is offline  
Likes For FiftySix:
Old 10-03-20, 02:47 PM
  #138  
philbob57
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chicago North Shore
Posts: 2,063

Bikes: frankenbike based on MKM frame

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times in 268 Posts
I'm outraged by Riv's/Grant's racism.

Now ...

If blacks were forced to pay higher interest rates because of their skin color,
or if mortgages were somehow made impossible to get in black neighborhoods,
or if black farmers didn't get loans that matched what white farmers got in amounts or interest rates,
or if blacks were discriminated against in employment,
or f blacks were discriminated against in public education,
or if blacks were discriminated against in policing,
or if blacks were discriminated against in health care,
or if blacks were discriminated against in incarceration,
or if blacks were discriminated against in any number of other unnamed ways,

Then I'd see a case for reparations.

BTW, tax deductions for mortgage interest are very unfairly distributed, not to mention tax deductions for what is in effect private school tuition which are even more unfairly distributed. There are far worse things than socialism.

Hell, even Adam Smith argues for higher taxation on the wealthy, against letting the rich control policy, and against letting corporations control regulations. And yet 'conservatives' today are against higher taxation on the wealthy, for letting the rich control policy, and for letting corporations regulate themselves, all the while calling themselves 'free marketeers.' (To mods: this 'graph is obviously about economics and human behavior, not about politics.)

Last edited by philbob57; 10-03-20 at 02:55 PM.
philbob57 is offline  
Likes For philbob57:
Old 10-03-20, 03:15 PM
  #139  
badger1
Senior Member
 
badger1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 4,627
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1274 Post(s)
Liked 583 Times in 324 Posts
Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
On current race race relations: Kmele Foster, John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes, Thomas Chatterton Williams, Glenn Loury. (Not a comprehensive list, kinda ordered form liberal to conservative as I perceive them, but all are interesting.)

On Critical Race Theory: McWhorter again, also James Lindsay and Helen Pluckrose. (Their new book "Cynical Theories" is the only intellectual history of this movement I know of that was written by people who are qualified to have an opinion but aren't part of it.) I also highly recommend Lindsay's "Translations From the Wokeish," an online dictionary of Critical Theory terminology based on the academic literature in the relevant fields. It's on his site "New Discourses." The articles on the front page are pretty hit-and-miss.. depends on the authors. But the dictionary is very, very good.

It's hard to find good material on Critical Race Theory. So much discussion of it, pro and con, is ill-informed hysterical ranting by people with a large platform and a tiny clue. And the intentional framing of CRT as "the way that all good people think about race now," so that anyone who disagrees is by definition a racist, doesn't help.

Rest assured, one's moral standing is not dependent on the degree to which one agrees with Ibrahm Kendi and Robin DiAngelo... although it can sure seem that way.

--Shannon
Correct.
badger1 is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 03:22 PM
  #140  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,657
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
The big difference is that Germany outlaws public display of Nazi propaganda and statuary. Only in legit museums. In the US, slavery owners and traitors against the country are memorialized in statues by the thousands. Swastikas are not flown publicly like Confederate flags, nor are they incorporated into a state flag. There are no famous 70's TV shows about a two crazy guys in a Porsche with a Swastika on the top running from the cops, and when someone makes a gaffe, says, "Oh, those good old Menchen!!!" Germany actively teaches its youth about their previous generations' transgressions. It has accepted its sordid history and has chosen to learn from it.

In the US, we're so busy shouting "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!" we cannot possibly accept the fact that we have flaws and need to improve.
You lost me at outlaws it.
Except in museums ofc
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 03:37 PM
  #141  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: To the right: opinions, not facts.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 740 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 210 Posts
Vintage-styled whimsically-named high end bicycle frames from a crusty Northern California brand named after the mythical land where dwelt Elrond since the second age of Middle Earth is just about the whitest thing ever. This is laughable white guilt posturing.
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 10-03-20, 03:39 PM
  #142  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,657
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
The big difference is that Germany outlaws public display of Nazi propaganda and statuary. Only in legit museums. In the US, slavery owners and traitors against the country are memorialized in statues by the thousands. Swastikas are not flown publicly like Confederate flags, nor are they incorporated into a state flag. There are no famous 70's TV shows about a two crazy guys in a Porsche with a Swastika on the top running from the cops, and when someone makes a gaffe, says, "Oh, those good old Menchen!!!" Germany actively teaches its youth about their previous generations' transgressions. It has accepted its sordid history and has chosen to learn from it.

In the US, we're so busy shouting "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!" we cannot possibly accept the fact that we have flaws and need to improve.
Good job on your analogy btw.
A lunatic trying to exterminate an entire race is somehow comparable to a relatively brief period of slavery in the US.
Do you even have a clue how long slavery was a world-wide practice before there was ever a single slave in the US? Centuries.
How about Africa?
Blacks have been slaves there for centuries.
How do they get their reparations?

Last edited by BillyD; 10-04-20 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Insult
downhillmaster is offline  
Likes For downhillmaster:
Old 10-03-20, 03:40 PM
  #143  
downhillmaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 1,657
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 965 Post(s)
Liked 754 Times in 396 Posts
Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Vintage-styled whimsically-named high end bicycle frames from a crusty Northern California brand named after the mythical land where dwelt Elrond since the second age of Middle Earth is just about the whitest thing ever. This is laughable white guilt posturing.
Bravo on your knowledge of Middle Earth history.
downhillmaster is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 03:42 PM
  #144  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: To the right: opinions, not facts.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 740 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by LV2TNDM View Post
The big difference is that Germany outlaws public display of Nazi propaganda and statuary. Only in legit museums.
True, although I'm not aware of American death camps and einsatzgruppen murdering people by the millions in living memory. Slavery was an abomination, but surely comparing Confederates to the Nazis is stretching a bit.
In the US, slavery owners and traitors against the country are memorialized in statues by the thousands.
This is true all over the world.
Swastikas are not flown publicly like Confederate flags, nor are they incorporated into a state flag.
This is a good point.
There are no famous 70's TV shows about a two crazy guys in a Porsche with a Swastika on the top running from the cops, and when someone makes a gaffe, says, "Oh, those good old Menchen!!!"
This is stretching to be offended by Dukes of Hazzard.
Germany actively teaches its youth about their previous generations' transgressions. It has accepted its sordid history and has chosen to learn from it.
Last time I checked, slavery is taught in American schools. Also, pretty much every country in the world has slavery in its recent history. Not excusing, but you're calling out the US so...

In the US, we're so busy shouting "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!" we cannot possibly accept the fact that we have flaws and need to improve.
Please. No one... NO ONE tears down the US (often with good reason) more than Americans.

Last edited by Hiro11; 10-03-20 at 03:52 PM.
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 10-03-20, 03:51 PM
  #145  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,554

Bikes: To the right: opinions, not facts.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 740 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 210 Posts
Originally Posted by downhillmaster View Post
Bravo on your knowledge of Middle Earth history.
The Last Homely House, home of Elrond Half-Elven, son of Earendil, Herald of Gil-Galad, host of the White Council, bearer of Vilya, enemy of Sauron.
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 10-03-20, 04:37 PM
  #146  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,260

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 994 Times in 661 Posts
Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Vintage-styled whimsically-named high end bicycle frames from a crusty Northern California brand named after the mythical land where dwelt Elrond since the second age of Middle Earth is just about the whitest thing ever. This is laughable white guilt posturing.
Some might call it an "expression of virtue."
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 05:48 PM
  #147  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,824

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1109 Post(s)
Liked 1,175 Times in 794 Posts
Originally Posted by djcookie View Post
. . . .


Last edited by BillyD; 10-03-20 at 07:53 PM.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 10-03-20, 05:49 PM
  #148  
ShannonM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Humboldt County, CA
Posts: 649
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 284 Times in 193 Posts
Well, this stayed above water for longer than I expected. Thanks to all y'all who commented in good faith and helped make this one of the most sincere and interesting conversations around this stuff that I've ever seen on any board I've ever been on. ("Ever," for me, goes back to 2400 baud BBSes and CompuServe.) And I mean every word of that sentence. It really was.

There are, of course, reasons that I wrote that whole paragraph in the past tense. And if you're one of those reasons, then you suck. And nobody agrees with you, not even secretly. And nobody thinks you're smart or brave or edgy, and nobody likes you, or wants to hang out with you, or sleep with you. Because you suck, and people who don't suck, which is most of them but not you, don't want to waste their limited time and energy dealing with people who suck, which is very few of them but includes you.

--Shannon
ShannonM is offline  
Likes For ShannonM:
Old 10-03-20, 06:40 PM
  #149  
kombiguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Yes, it's the same sort of thing.

"Not well spoken" often means "sounding black".
Or sounding "redneck" or "hillbilly."
kombiguy is offline  
Likes For kombiguy:
Old 10-03-20, 07:02 PM
  #150  
spdntrxi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East Bay Area ,CA
Posts: 1,702

Bikes: Parlee,BMC,Specialized and Trek

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked 53 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
spdntrxi, I am a literate person and understand what was written. Unfortunately for me, I suppose, I am unable to read the unintended meaning of "It is an insult to every person of color..."

"Pretty ironic preaching about race and referencing the great MLK while at the same time telling a total stranger what he has seen or should see with his own eyes. " I fail to see the irony. Please elaborate.
I didn't say you were illiterate.. just that it is a saying not to be taken literally... " I dont see color" just means race does not matter.For whomever says that, maybe it's true. Get it ? or are you just being difficult on purpose. Peace out.
spdntrxi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.