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Both 2017 Giant SLR 1 delaminated after only 2+ years

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Both 2017 Giant SLR 1 delaminated after only 2+ years

Old 10-12-20, 07:28 AM
  #1  
natto
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Both 2017 Giant SLR 1 delaminated after only 2+ years

In Jan 2018 I purchased a new, carbon, aero road bike from an authorized Giant dealer: a 2017 Giant Propel Advanced Pro 1.

It came with two 55mm deep dish carbon wheels. Giant SLR 1 55mm (rim brakes).

On August 1, 2020 my front wheel delaminated and on August 20, 2020 my rear wheel delaminated after approximately 11,500 miles over that 2 year, 8 month period. I weigh 132 pounds and have ridden the bike on road rides only.

Giant appears to be denying my warranty replacement claim and the bike shop dealer tells me I won't even get a definitive yes or no answer from either them, the dealer, or Giant the manufacturer.

My question is in a few parts:
A) Does this seem like it's just normal wear and tear or perhaps a manufacturing defect?
B) Does anyone else have 2017 Giant carbon SLR wheels that have also delaminated?
C) Do you think I should push for some sort of reimbursement/replacement? Does this "no"/non-answer seem acceptable to you?
D) Does this make anyone else who has 2017 Giant carbon wheels worried about the integrity of their wheels?

Other details that may be relevant:

I live just outside the Boston area which has some rolling hills but is relatively flat (no mountain descents where riding the brakes for long periods on big descents might be an issue). I rode the bike on roads only. I ride primarily in the northwest suburbs (Concord, Carlisle, Sudbury, Westford). The area is very popular with cyclists. Most of the cyclists I know have carbon wheels on their road bikes. I know of none of them who have had BOTH wheels delaminate after less than 3 years on these roads.

I put approximately 11,500 miles over 2 years and 8 months on the wheels, all of it on the roads with the exception of perhaps 7-8 occasions when I encountered a very brief section of unanticipated gravel road for no more than 1/2 a mile. I don't race but I do ride regularly in pace-lines at a decent clip -- you know, the kind of riding the wheels are presumably made for :-P

The bike had no impact or crash in the last year. Although in July 2019 over a year before delamination, a friend did a "superman" off his bike and crashed into my front fork with his body and broke the fork (and knocked me and the bike down). At the time, I had a Giant dealer bike shop examine the front wheel for damage and though they could not be 100% certain, they could not see any damage to the front wheel. That was fully 6,000 miles and over a year before both front and rear wheels delaminated. I did report that crash to Giant as I asked for (and received) a slightly lower than retail, crash replacement price on a replacement fork. So the front wheel did have an impact but it was long time before the delamination. My engineer/cyclist friends claim that time-line doesn't fit with delamination a year/6000 miles later. Do others agree? And that does not account for the rear wheel delamination (though I do understand that arguably any crash could cause damage).

I took the wheels (one at a time, 3 weeks apart as they each delaminated) to a local Giant dealer (Farinas in Watertown, MA) to inquire about the possibility of a warranty replacement. It's not entirely clear to me but it appears that Giant's warranty on carbon wheels is perhaps 2 years (or maybe only one?). The guy at the bike shop initially told me that Giant would likely give me some sort of replacement despite the fact that time-wise it would be outside the warranty period. But because of COVID, the warranty replacement claims would be backed up by 1-2 months and I would have to wait to find out. Now (it's October 2020), he is saying that Giant will not even provide me with a yes or no answer. He says I should just assume the answer is no and I will not likely hear back from him or Giant. He says that now when Giant is denying claims they are not bothering to communicate this denial. Given that Giant insists the only way to communicate with them is through the dealer, this leaves me with no way to get an answer.

I find this non-answer really problematic. I believe I ought to receive some sort of answer. I'm considering filing a small claims lawsuit for a defective product. I'm hoping this will at least get a dialogue going with Giant.

Any help/thoughts/ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
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Old 10-12-20, 07:38 AM
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Mulberry20
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Definitely file in small claims court. They won't show up and you will win a summary judgment, Do it.
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Old 10-12-20, 08:56 AM
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natto
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Thank you! That's very helpful. I assumed that it would make sense to file suit given that it would cost Giant more to hire attorneys to defend such a suit than the wheels are actually worth. I was hoping for a less adversarial resolution, or at least an explanation first of course.

Thanks again.
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Old 10-12-20, 09:26 AM
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You're going to sue based on a claim that is outside of the warranty period (if I read your tome correctly)?
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Old 10-12-20, 09:49 AM
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Looking at the website it seems as if Giant's warranty for wheels is one year, same as for their other components except for frame and fork. Even if it was 2 years, you are still out of warranty. No need to spend more time and energy on this.
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Old 10-12-20, 10:16 AM
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I would think that the best you can do is get a credit towards a new set. Getting replacement wheelset is likely not going to happen.

I would also think that it is not a case for a CPSC recall or a voluntary recall unless serious injury can result. Failure on the part of a user not inspecting the wheel at all after the warranty period might be a factor.

Carbon wheels had issues early on and there were some recalls. If the delam doesn’t result in a sudden catastrophic failure leading to injury, it is just an unfortunate situation.

Hopefully the LBS will work with you on getting a credit. If you have to wait, you’ll need to figure out if you want to continue with that LBS or move on to one that will help you more on a new set of wheels. You might even consider buying a non-carbon training set as a carrot for a shop that will work with you and Giant on resolving your carbon set.

John
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Old 10-12-20, 10:42 AM
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Thats a good question. That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around in presenting my "tome": what is reasonable (and legally permissible) to expect from the manufacturer both in terms of cost and safety?

First, I'm asking here because I'm trying to get a feel from the community of cyclists whether it's reasonable to expect failure of BOTH carbon wheels within 3 years of normal wear and tear on the roads?. And/or is it genuinely unsafe to ride a Giant SLR 1 wheel after the warranty period of one or two years runs out?

I'm actually pretty scared now given that I regularly reach speeds of 40mph on those wheels. Even at an average speed of 18mph, failure of the wheels while out on the roads could cause catastrophic injuries. I ride in a paceline regularly -- usually twice at week at average speeds of over 20mph. Am I putting those guys at risk by riding defective wheels? And given that I'm on the lighter side for a cyclist at 132 pounds, does that mean that heavier cyclists (most cyclist's) wheels are going to routinely fail prior to reaching the 11,500/ 2 yr 8 month mark I had reached?

Second, because I paid a lot of money for the bike/wheels both with the original bike purchase and in August this year when I paid for replacement wheels, is it just a cost I have to eat? Or is it reasonable to assume that those original wheels were defective? If so, can I legitimately ask for a replacement even though it is out of warranty period?

Finally, I want to get the word out and find out if I'm the only one. And if others also ride on recently manufactured Giant SLR 1 wheels, are they actually safe or not? I have found other threads where cyclists are complaining that their recently manufactured SLR wheels have failed for no apparent reason. I find it really concerning.

I really am asking questions hoping to get some real answers.

Thanks
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Old 10-12-20, 10:46 AM
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One thing I didn't mention is that I did actually buy the same wheels again from Giant. This time they're a newer (2021) model. Because of COVID the wait to have a warranty claim assessed was at least a month.

At first, the bike shop/Giant dealer told me that Giant would most likely agree to replace the front wheel because it was relatively soon after the end of the warranty period. Based on that assurance I bought another Giant SLR carbon wheel -- this time a 2021 model.

Notably, at the same time, I asked if they would/should check my rear wheel in the event it had the same issue. They told me it wasn't even worth checking the rear wheels since delamination of modern carbon wheels is such a fluke and so unlikely. Three weeks later that rear wheel delaminated. This leads me to believe that these wheels may have been part of a bad batch. Again, based on their assurances of an almost certain replacement now that both wheels had failed, I bought another Giant SLR carbon wheel to replace the rear wheel -- a 2021 model also.
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Old 10-12-20, 11:13 AM
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Thanks John. I did experience a very scary and sudden brake pulsing on the front wheel when it delaminated. I stopped using the front brake, ended my ride, and took it straight to the nearest bike shop. That bike shop looked at it and told me the wheel was totally unrideable and structurally unsound. That same bike shop had earlier that same morning put a new tubeless tire on for me when I discovered the tire was inexplicably flat as I took the bike out from inside my car. So when I rode back in on a now delaminated wheel, it had only been a couple of hours since I'd had experts looking at the whole setup. While, at the Giant dealer shop the next morning, I asked them to also examine my rear wheel and they said unless I was experiencing issues there was no need because it is/was so rare for these wheels to fail.

When the brake pulsing occurred, it was as if the front wheel was being grabbed hard suddenly and unevenly when I used the front brake. The yanking feeling on the front wheel while braking was pretty severe. In my opinion, that could have caused a crash on its own.
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Old 10-12-20, 11:17 AM
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I have always questioned in-house parts. Probably one reason I am going down the road of building from a frame.
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Old 10-12-20, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by natto View Post
I have found other threads where cyclists are complaining that their recently manufactured SLR wheels have failed for no apparent reason. I find it really concerning.
Originally Posted by natto View Post
One thing I didn't mention is that I did actually buy the same wheels again from Giant.
Apparently, you weren't that concerned about it.
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Old 10-12-20, 11:48 AM
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I used to train and race those roads 45 years ago. Every time I go back, I look at the roads. (Not so much the Concord, Carlisle ones, more the south-east of Boston; Milton, Canton where I grew up and my parents lived.) They've gotten a little better over the years, but not a lot. Winter damage still happens. My take? 3 seasons on good training/race spare wheels - the rims served you well. 11,500 miles? A hard, off-design hit to the front? Rear wheels have inherently a tougher life. More weight, less shock absorption and very diished and unequal spoking.

I don't know these wheels at all, but couldn't they be re-rimmed? It appears they have high quality Sapim spokes. If those are decent hubs they should do another 12,000 miles easily,perhaps taking time now to install new bearings. I considered it life on a race bike that I got maybe two seasons out of my race rims with limited mileage, perhaps two on my training rims and one winter on my fix gear's heavy tubular rims. Now years later, I did get 17,000 miles out of a pair of 400 gram high quality tubular rims that died of Pacific NW lava dust brake wear. But those wheels 1) never got the hard hit your front took and 2) never saw the roads you ride.

I have a "fond" memory of riding an early spring training ride out to the NEBC TT course near Carlisle; being passed by a car and simultaneously dropping the front wheel into a winter pothole. Hard hit but the wheels survived. (It was March and they were already "square" so I never would haven noticed another dent.) The TT course was a 10 mile loop. At the far point, I did a routine quick look down. Something was very, very wrong! The handlebar took a 30 degree angle down at the end of the stem reinforcement! Right drop was half a foot lower than the left. Woah!

20 miles from my home in downtown Cambridge. A long ways to ride on a sick handlebar. But - my riding partner lived just south of Concord, a mile from the train station. I knew she never locked her kitchen door and there was a train schedule tacked to it. Nursed my bike the 3 easy miles to her house, walked in, checked the schedule. A train in 45 minutes! To the station and bought a ticket. Train arrived, I started to board but the conductor looked at the bike and said this train was not a commuter train and couldn't carry bikes. I pointed to the handlebar and said I lived 1 mile from the Porter Square station. He looked at the bent handlebar, acknowledged I had a problem and said he could find some room in the baggage for it.

The above is a little off topic other than it was caused by the road conditions exactly where you ride. And a reminisce about my first 10-speed, a cheap 1967 Peugeot UO-8 that lived a hard life of NE and Ann Arbor winters, many crashes, two car doors and in 22,000 miles, never once left me stranded.

Ben
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Old 10-12-20, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
Definitely file in small claims court. They won't show up and you will win a summary judgment, Do it.
Internet legal advice lmao.
Based upon OP’s own words the wheels are out warranty
Stop the idiocy!
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Old 10-12-20, 01:24 PM
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Years ago I took the company that installed my pool cover to court. It was after the warranty. They never showed up. They would show an elephant walking on the cover in their ads. The judge asked me if by any chance an elephant was on my pool cover and I said no.

He quickly ruled in my favor. 4 weeks later I got a check for $2,999.00

In the case of a faulty product, consumers have rights beyond the warranty.

Remember what Wayne Gretzky said.
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Old 10-12-20, 01:37 PM
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If it lasts the life of the warranty, how is it "faulty" when it dies? Just because someone scammed the legal system vs a pool company doesn't mean it's right or to be expected. OP got what he paid for, plus another year.
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Old 10-12-20, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
If it lasts the life of the warranty, how is it "faulty" when it dies? Just because someone scammed the legal system vs a pool company doesn't mean it's right or to be expected. OP got what he paid for, plus another year.
As a consumer, is it reasonable to assume that high-end bicycle wheels should last for more than 2 years, assuming there was no damage caused by the consumer.
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Old 10-12-20, 01:43 PM
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You can expect and hope that they last longer but you have no right to demand that they last beyond the warranty. This isn't complicated.
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Old 10-12-20, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
You can expect and hope that they last longer but you have no right to demand that they last beyond the warranty. This isn't complicated.
I am sorry you are wrong. Basically every state has consumer protection laws that go beyond the stated warranty if it is reasonable to assume a product should function properly beyond the stated warranty.

I would imagine that a set of wheels that retailed for over $1,000.00 would be covered for the full 4 year period under "implied warranty" laws.

From Consumer Reports:

"Along with companies’ express warranties, you also have “implied warranties” under state law. The Uniform Commercial Code, a set of laws adopted in much the same form by all states and the District of Columbia, provides an automatic “implied warranty of merchantability.” That unwritten protection guarantees that consumer products are free of substantial defects and will function properly for a reasonable period of time. What’s “reasonable” depends on the type of product and the amount you paid. States typically limit implied warranties to four years. They apply to products you buy from retailers that normally sell such items."
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Old 10-12-20, 01:51 PM
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We'll just have to disagree and see how it turns out for OP.
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Old 10-12-20, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
We'll just have to disagree and see how it turns out for OP.
The bottom line is that if he files in SCC, one of two things will happen, 1) They don't show and he wins the max for SCC or 2) They contact him and try to settle.

Either way he wins.
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Old 10-12-20, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
"Along with companies’ express warranties, you also have “implied warranties” under state law. The Uniform Commercial Code, a set of laws adopted in much the same form by all states and the District of Columbia, provides an automatic “implied warranty of merchantability.” That unwritten protection guarantees that consumer products are free of substantial defects and will function properly for a reasonable period of time. What’s “reasonable” depends on the type of product and the amount you paid. States typically limit implied warranties to four years. They apply to products you buy from retailers that normally sell such items."
WOW you learn somthin' new every day.

Now this is getting interesting. I've always wanted to see the inside of a Small Claims Court.

Barry
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Old 10-12-20, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
As a consumer, is it reasonable to assume that high-end bicycle wheels should last for more than 2 years, assuming there was no damage caused by the consumer.
Not when they are racing parts. They cost a lot because they are light. Making them light doesn't always make the durable or longer lasting, more often it makes them weaker and shortens their useful life.

Does seem like they shouldn't delaminate but I question your definition of "reasonable"
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Old 10-12-20, 04:10 PM
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Might one or both wheel have been exposed to high temperatures? A couple months back, someone posted pics of their carbon wheel that had developed 'ripples' in the rim. Turned out it had been in a rear-mount bike carrier and the rim was sitting right behind the exhaust.
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Old 10-12-20, 04:29 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Mulberry20 View Post
The bottom line is that if he files in SCC, one of two things will happen, 1) They don't show and he wins the max for SCC or 2) They contact him and try to settle.

Either way he wins.
Nope. Either way he loses.

In the span of one's life, if you have never contacted a lawyer, or had seen the inside of a courtroom........................you win! (BTW, this also includes Jury Duty)


You got a lot of miles out of those wheels. They eventually were no longer serviceable, and required replacement. Welcome to cycling!
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Old 10-12-20, 04:44 PM
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OP, when you file the claim also file it against the bike shop.

This is a lock.
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