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Click bait news story: Bicyclist kicks dog in the head on the Luce Line, killing it

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Click bait news story: Bicyclist kicks dog in the head on the Luce Line, killing it

Old 10-20-20, 09:10 AM
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Hypno Toad
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Click bait news story: Bicyclist kicks dog in the head on the Luce Line, killing it

This story has been making the rounds on social media in the Twin Cities. I'm interested to see if the wider range of BF has any input/experience with dog/bike collisions.

I saw the headline and expected it was a bichon or other lap dog, but it was a yellow lab ?!?

For reference, I was riding this section of the Luce Line on Sunday, and I've biked this trail since the 80s, so I know it well. Rough estimate is that half the dogs are off leash in this area, leashes are required to walk a dog here, but most use it as an off leash park. I've never had a bad encounter with a dog here (or anywhere), but I'm always cautious with an off leash dog ... I have no idea what it'll do.

My post on a thread about this:
... maybe they saw their dog unresponsive and the person biking past at the same time and thought the two things were related.
I have to say, as somebody with a dog like a yellow lab (70 lbs flat-coated retriever) - I can't imagine a passing rider could kill a dog that size without going down. It is possible, but not likely.
This story does not add up. And without being able to ID the person on the bike, we will be left with the incomplete reporting from the people that lost their dog.
Frankly, this story should have never gotten beyond NextDoor without more critical info.
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota...ine-killing-it

Since this story is nothing but a published Nextdoor post, I've pasted the content below to save you from feeding the clickbait publication: A dog died days after being kicked in the head by a bicyclist on the Luce Line State Trail in the western Twin Cities suburbs earlier this month, according to a police incident report.

An Orono Police Department incident report says a 73-year-old Orono woman called police on Oct. 13 to report her dog's death.

She said she, her husband and their dog were running along the trail on Oct. 6. There was no one in sight of them until a "biker came from behind, at a quick pace," kicked their dog in the head, and kept riding down the trail, the report said.

The dog was running behind the owners on the trail when it was kicked, the report said, noting the biker kicked the dog so hard it ended up on the side of the trail in the brush and wasn't breathing.

The owners performed a heart massage on the dog and revived it, the report said. For the next five days, the dog rested at home. But on Oct. 11, the owner went to put the dog in its kennel when the dog's legs went out from under it and it stopped breathing.

They massaged its heart again, but it didn't work and the dog died, the report said.

The owners said the bicyclist is believed to be a man, he was wearing a helmet, black bike pants and a colorful bike shirt, but they aren't sure if they'd be able to recognize him if they saw him again because it "all happened so fast and they were trying to attend to their dog."

The incident report calls this a petty misdemeanor, but no suspect has been identified.

Meanwhile, posts on NextDoor indicate the owners have hung signs on the Luce Line about their dog, a yellow lab, near Brown Road in Orono. Many on the page are calling for etiquette from bikers, walkers, dog owners and others on the trail, which has been extra busy this year due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

The Minnesota Department of Natural Resources maintains the 63-mile Luce Line State Trail that stretches from Winsted east to Plymouth, where it connects to the Luce Line Regional Trail, which connects to Minneapolis. The DNR has a webpage dedicated to trail etiquette and rules. Among them: pass on the left and give an audible signal; stay to the right when others approach; yield to pedestrians and slower trail users; and keep your pets on a leash and under your control at all times.

The DNR's website says the Luce Line has experienced "very high use" and it may not be possible to practice social distancing on it, noting it can be impossible to pass or approach someone without coming within six feet if there are too many people on the same stretch of trail at the same time.



Afterthought:


Last edited by Hypno Toad; 10-20-20 at 09:11 AM. Reason: adding video
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Old 10-20-20, 03:09 PM
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The story lost me at “owner performed a heart massage on the dog and revived it”.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:17 PM
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The owner was a canine heart specialist, she knew right where to spread the ribs to directly access the heart.

The insane German Shepard that attacked and bit me for absolutely no reason, I kicked in the head twice. And I got bit twice. I feel bad he got the last bite in, and I'm quite sure the SOB did not die. Wish he had, TBH.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:29 PM
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If true, that's not good.
That said, if the dog went after a cyclist, would they not try to paint a defensive kick as an "unprovoked attack"?

Yeah, not buying it.

Whenever a dog bigger than a cat comes at me (not merely just running towards me), I aim straight at the dog, hoping my cargo platform will stop it. It usually means the dog will move andby the time the dog realises my legs was hiding behind the platform, it is too late for it to latch on.

Obviously, if it comes from behind or the side, I try to do things differently. Uphill with the dog behind me can be a real problem.

But really, if you cannot control your dog, I will do whatever it takes to stop it. In that situation, I really don't care that it is the owners who are the real culprits, I'm dealing with their out-of-control dog.

That said, I've found that if the dog doesn't seem out of control, but rather "Play chasing" (can't explain it more than that), the situation is usually diffused if I stop and "chat" to the dog. Not sure that is a good strategy for the next bloke coming past that particular dog, though.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:32 PM
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Very hard to believe a kick could kill a lab-sized dog unless it was unusually fragile (e.g. old and weak). The physics and mechanics would have be in perfect alignment to deliver that much force.

The dog was running behind the owners on the trail when it was kicked, the report said
Then how to they know what happened?
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Old 10-20-20, 03:32 PM
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It's kinda hard to kick a dog that's just standing there minding his own business. It's hard NOT to kick a dog that's chasing you, in full attack mode with teeth bared, and is ready to take a bite out of your leg if you stop pedalling, at least for me. Especially after having been bitten already.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:45 PM
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I imagine asking for opinions on dogs here would be about like asking on a web site for postmen err postal delivery personnel.
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Old 10-20-20, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
It's kinda hard to kick a dog that's just standing there minding his own business. It's hard NOT to kick a dog that's chasing you, in full attack mode with teeth bared, and is ready to take a bite out of your leg if you stop pedalling, at least for me. Especially after having been bitten already.
The dog was running behind the owners on the trail when it was kicked”.

My question was if as they state, the dog was behind the owners as they were running, they might have no idea if the dog had moved into the cyclists path and as result, the dog gets kicked to move it out of the way. Possibly the cyclist interpreted a movement by the dog as a lunge, who knows and the owners might not have been aware.

What dog owners don’t get, and I see this a lot, is they have a responsibility to have their dog under control the entire time they are near other people, cyclists, etc.. and I cannot imagine it was a surprise to them that a cyclist rode up behind them “at a quick pace”, which could be a speed that seems fast to a runner, but moderate for a cyclist. I generally avoid paths and am always nervous when passing in the same direction, a person walking a dog as I’ve no idea if they heard me shout out “passing”, and/or how the dog will react. As far as I’m concerned, walking a dog on a bike/pedestrian path is a bad idea, and we see the results in this story.
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Old 10-20-20, 04:38 PM
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For me, we love our 3 rescue dogs - I'm as passionate about dogs as I am about bikes.

Our 10 month old cattle dog mix has been interesting, she has a strong instinct to chase fast things, and we live on busy rail-trail. As a good dog owner, when I see a person on bike (checking behind me often), I stop to get my puppy on a short leash and keep her calm while the person bikes past. We're making progress.

I've had very few bad interactions with dogs. Over the summer, I was riding a gravel road in farmlands, two dogs were in the ditch near a farmstead, they took interest in me. I held my line and talked to the dogs in a calm voice, they watched me pass without issue.

The worst close call I've had (and I do tons of miles on gravel every year), was a retractable leash in the suburbs & 1/2 mile from my house. The dog in front of the walker hid the amount of leash and the oncoming SUV limited my ability to move to my left. Not sure why I avoided contact with that dog ... dumb luck

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Old 10-20-20, 04:41 PM
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Yeah those retractable leashes are deadly. You don't really know how constrained the dog is. You might think it's at the end of it's leash then - oh no!
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Old 10-20-20, 05:04 PM
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To me, as a bare legged bicyclist, when I see an off-leash dog, with it's teeth showing, that's angrily and aggressively barking while looking right at me like I'm his worst enemy, I treat the situation like I would if I saw a (possibly) crazed homeless person, yelling and screaming and waving a knife around.

Probably nothing is gonna happen to me as I ride past, so I try to stay cool. But when that thing starts chasing after me, that's a little different, and I think it's appropriate to be concerned. This was not a situation I created, and it sure looks like I'm being attacked. Maybe not, but I always prepare for the worst.

I was going to add something about female owners of large dogs, but wisely edited it.
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Old 10-20-20, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Yeah those retractable leashes are deadly. You don't really know how constrained the dog is. You might think it's at the end of it's leash then - oh no!
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Old 10-20-20, 05:23 PM
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Obviously no one should do anything to hurt an animal that is just minding its own business. But the dog should have been on a leash so absent other evidence one could not disagree with a rider who said a well placed kick was necessary. Assuming this actually even happened. The only actual fact in evidence seems to be that a dog died.

(I assume there is no coroner's report.)
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Old 10-20-20, 05:28 PM
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WHY would anyone even think of doing this, kicking a dog that just standing there, for the heck of it? And why would they be on a bike when they did it? To me it's pretty clear this dog was chasing them, what other (reasonable) explanation could there be?
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Old 10-20-20, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
WHY would anyone even think of doing this, kicking a dog that just standing there, for the heck of it? And why would they be on a bike when they did it? To me it's pretty clear this dog was chasing them, what other (reasonable) explanation could there be?
I agree. A cyclist seeing a dog running behind its owners, aiming for that particular dog and then actually hitting it - and so hard it kills it - seems very, very unlikely to say the least.
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Old 10-20-20, 05:55 PM
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if it was behind them, did they actually see the kick? Maybe the dog did something unexpected. Labs bite tons of people every year.

My experience with kicking dogs is that it's really hard to do. But the one time I connected, I immediately felt bad about it. Dog running straight for me, teeth bared, pretty scary. So I swung back my leg and as I was swinging it forward, the dog pulled up. So my kick actually connected for once. We were both pretty shocked. I just don't see how you could kick a large dog hard enough to get it off the trail. Not to mention the physics of kicking a dog sideways off of a moving bicycle.

I love dogs but I'm generally unapologetic about hitting them if they are threatening me and close enough to bite. And I'm generally not going to stop in the presence of a dog that was at all aggressive
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Old 10-20-20, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
if it was behind them, did they actually see the kick? Maybe the dog did something unexpected. Labs bite tons of people every year.

My experience with kicking dogs is that it's really hard to do. But the one time I connected, I immediately felt bad about it. Dog running straight for me, teeth bared, pretty scary. So I swung back my leg and as I was swinging it forward, the dog pulled up. So my kick actually connected for once. We were both pretty shocked. I just don't see how you could kick a large dog hard enough to get it off the trail. Not to mention the physics of kicking a dog sideways off of a moving bicycle.

I love dogs but I'm generally unapologetic about hitting them if they are threatening me and close enough to bite. And I'm generally not going to stop in the presence of a dog that was at all aggressive
Not only that, but hit it "just right" that you don't bash its face, but makes its heart stop. A frigging cardiac arrest. On a dog that just happens to be owned by an expert in reviving dogs who suffers just that.
Seriously, the more I think of this story, the more outlandish it seems. In fact, it seems like the owner is trying to drum up business.
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Old 10-20-20, 06:49 PM
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I'll do anything I can to avoid a violent interaction with a dog, as it is never the dog's fault -- behind every "bad" dog is an irresponsible owner. Though I will happily call the authorities on the irresponsible owner.

I once got charged by a lab...I was riding along on a country road, past a house, and I heard or sensed something from my right. Looked over just in time to see a lab charging straight at me. Dog crashed into me, I swerved, made a somewhat-controlled dismount, and yelled my head off until the owner came out of the house to get his dog. Turned out that the dog had bent my outer chainring - frickin' Ultegra, so pretty solid. I told the owner that his dog must be injured, but we checked him out and he was fine. They have hard heads.

+1,000 on the retractable leashes. Anyone who knows anything about dogs - and training them - would never use one of those.
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Old 10-20-20, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
For me, we love our 3 rescue dogs - I'm as passionate about dogs as I am about bikes.

Our 10 month old cattle dog mix has been interesting, she has a strong instinct to chase fast things, and we live on busy rail-trail. As a good dog owner, when I see a person on bike (checking behind me often), I stop to get my puppy on a short leash and keep her calm while the person bikes past. We're making progress.

I've had very few bad interactions with dogs. Over the summer, I was riding a gravel road in farmlands, two dogs were in the ditch near a farmstead, they took interest in me. I held my line and talked to the dogs in a calm voice, they watched me pass without issue.

The worst close call I've had (and I do tons of miles on gravel every year), was a retractable leash in the suburbs & 1/2 mile from my house.
Retractable leashes are...


Thats from my perspective as a cyclist and dog owner.
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Old 10-21-20, 02:10 AM
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Yeah, no, not buying it. Sounds like the couple lost their beloved pet and had to blame someone for something.

It's really difficult to manage a decent defensive blow from a bicycle to ward off a threat, let alone deliver an effective offensive blow. Anything hard enough to do any damage will probably throw us off the bike as well. My main road work when I was an amateur boxer was cycling and it's just not likely anyone could deliver an effective punch or kick while riding, other than getting lucky. Experienced sprinters can throw a good shoulder bump or deflect someone's handlebar with an elbow, but that's about all.

I've hit a dog once while riding. A neighbor's goofy but harmless pittie was giving me the parade escort treatment, then suddenly stopped in front of me. I was on my heavy comfort hybrid with spring suspension and rolled right over him. No harm to me, bike or dog.

I wouldn't try to get into any defensive stuff while riding. Too easy to fall and be injured worse. If I'm worried about a particular dog I'll stop, dismount, put the bike between me and the dog, and get out the pepper spray. So far, so good. I've used the pepper spray only once and that was during a walk, not a bike ride. The stuff works too, better than I'd expected.

I've never hosed a dog while riding but I probably should just to discourage them from chasing. Dogs that get in the habit of chasing tend to end up dead, so it's doing the dog a favor by giving it a spritz of pepper spray for chasing. But so far I haven't done that. The "owners" (anyone who lets their pets roam free is just a dog feeder, not a responsible dog owner -- that includes those 50-yard retractable non-leashes/tripwires) are usually within sight and doing the usual ineffectual stuff dog-feeders do: oh precious no-no gee I dunno what got into him precious never does that o bad boy naughty sorry won't happen again blahblahblah
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Old 10-21-20, 07:48 AM
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Here's another TdF clip with a dog wreck, and this one is two riders at break away speeds hitting this dog in the head and shoulder. You'll see the dog run away on the left of the images by the red directors car. (this also has the yellow lab wreck at the end). This reinforces the point, it would be damned hard to kill a lab with a kick from a passing person on a bike. FWIW, I've share this video and point with the publication that posted the story.

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Old 10-21-20, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
As a side note, between these and the close passes, you should consider logging your videos with UpRide.cc - it'll make it easier to show negligence and/or intent in the event that someone does get hurt in the future.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:26 AM
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After some 40 years of dog-interaction-free cycling, my number came up and I've been taken off my bike twice in the past year by little 15lb (7kg) dogs that launched themselves at top speed into my front wheel. One was free-ranging, one was on the end of a 25' (7.5m) retractable leash [city ordinance: dogs must be on leash, leash 6' (1.8m) maximum length]. Both times the owners were right there. Neither owner offered anything beyond "I'm sorry this happened." I'm down two helmets and some bar tape, and I've got some new scars on my knee.


Be calm, be rational, stay legal...but do whatever is required to protect yourself. 100 years ago some cyclists ***did a historical thing***. The 2020 version...hmm, I suppose is to mount wide-angle action cams and file lawsuits.

Last edited by tcs; 10-21-20 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:32 AM
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I have no idea what happened, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't kick the dog as described without either basically stopping or flopping over due to Newtonian physics. And such a hard kick administered directly to the head is only plausible at all if the dog is running directly at the cyclist.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:36 AM
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I use A Marine Air Horn to ward off Dogs.
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