Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

Tubeless Lessons Learned

Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Tubeless Lessons Learned

Old 10-29-20, 07:40 AM
  #26  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,360
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3120 Post(s)
Liked 4,203 Times in 2,123 Posts
Originally Posted by walnutz View Post
I've read this a few times and can't make heads or tails of it, but you seem happy, so kudos!
Thanks, I was wondering if it was just me and I needed another cuppa.
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 10-29-20, 07:42 AM
  #27  
hsuBM
jj
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 331
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times in 78 Posts
Sincerely, thank you for convincing me to dash any curiosity about going tubeless. I appreciate it.
hsuBM is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 07:45 AM
  #28  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
Originally Posted by hsuBM View Post
Sincerely, thank you for convincing me to dash any curiosity about going tubeless. I appreciate it.
*Sighs and shrugs*
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 10-29-20, 07:45 AM
  #29  
Aladin
Senior Member
 
Aladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Siberia West .. aka Central Wisconsin... USA
Posts: 309

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian, 1998 Litespeed BlueRidge.. 1977? Schwinn LeTour 12.2 'Rain Daze'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I’ve sprung dozens of leaks but they always seem to seal. Thanks, Orange Seal. I did have to limp home pretty carefully once when I was using Stan’s.

In all fairness, I’m usually not more than 20 miles from home and my support team is just a phone call away. If I were any further away or touring or something, I’d certainly carry everything mentioned and more.

Just.. had my fill of orange seal-NOT. Air exchg dries it out too fast IME. I am-- in process..one foot in and one foot out.. of 'sperimenting w some seal-ANT recipes. Winter will see some work..

Me thinks.. org SEALNOT is just Elmers Glue/Woodglue w some grit thrown in. The last 2 containers which IMO is well overpriced failed to last like first 2 I bought.. same conditions.

Likely.. just my mileage. I failed to review org SEALNOT status and got left very high and dry.. way the hell in the boonies. I carp as I believe the gooooo-bers who mix the stuff do it more as a recreational pursuit.
Aladin is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 07:45 AM
  #30  
PoorInRichfield
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 640

Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 351 Post(s)
Liked 264 Times in 161 Posts
Additional tip I learned from going tubeless this year...
  • Buy a syringe that has a tiny straw for extracting sealant out of your wheels. Since I live in a northern climate where I don't ride outdoors all winter, I don't want sealant in my bike tires for the ~6 months that my bike is on the indoor trainer. Reason being that the sealant does dry-out inside the tire and I don't want a blob of sealant in one spot on the tire since it's not likely that I'll remember to spin my wheels "just because". Once the tire is sealed, it doesn't actually need the sealant in it to hold air... that's just for punctures. At this time, Zwift and Wahoo have not made any kind of "virtual tire puncture device" that I'm aware of for indoor riding realism.
  • Don't inflate one's tires with the valve stem at the bottom of the wheel. I'm not sure if I have too much sealant in my wheels or if this is just how it is, but if I try to put air in my tires with the valve stem closest to the ground, sealant will come out of the stem because all the sealant also pools at the bottom of the wheel and thus can get sucked out of the valve stem hole.
  • Don't deflate inflate one's tires or remove the valve stem core with the valve stem at the bottom of the wheel. Similar to the previous tip, I made this awful mistake just a few weeks ago. In preparing my bike for indoor riding, I went to remove the sealant from the tires and had the valve stem closest to the ground. It was taking a long time to let the air out of the tires, perhaps because some sealant was blocking the valve stem, so I removed the valve stem. Big mistake. Sealant shot out of the tire like a geyser into my face and all over the place, even w/o only a few PSI of air in the tire.
PoorInRichfield is offline  
Likes For PoorInRichfield:
Old 10-29-20, 07:54 AM
  #31  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,330

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20611 Post(s)
Liked 9,283 Times in 4,597 Posts
Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Me thinks.. org SEALNOT is just Elmers Glue/Woodglue w some grit thrown in.
This makes the rest of your statements make sense. Well, it doesn't make them sensible so much as it informs of the ~thought process behind them.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-29-20, 08:16 AM
  #32  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Just.. had my fill of orange seal-NOT. Air exchg dries it out too fast IME. I am-- in process..one foot in and one foot out.. of 'sperimenting w some seal-ANT recipes. Winter will see some work..

Me thinks.. org SEALNOT is just Elmers Glue/Woodglue w some grit thrown in. The last 2 containers which IMO is well overpriced failed to last like first 2 I bought.. same conditions.

Likely.. just my mileage. I failed to review org SEALNOT status and got left very high and dry.. way the hell in the boonies. I carp as I believe the gooooo-bers who mix the stuff do it more as a recreational pursuit.
Methinks you're doing it wrong.

You do realize, I hope, that you need to occasionally check the sealant level and top it up as necessary?

I live in a climate similar to yours in WI, and even in summer I need only to add a tiny bit of sealant every 6-8 weeks or so. Takes perhaps ten minutes per bike.
Koyote is online now  
Old 10-29-20, 08:23 AM
  #33  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,385

Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked 3,430 Times in 1,207 Posts
Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Just.. had my fill of orange seal-NOT. Air exchg dries it out too fast IME. I am-- in process..one foot in and one foot out.. of 'sperimenting w some seal-ANT recipes. Winter will see some work..

Me thinks.. org SEALNOT is just Elmers Glue/Woodglue w some grit thrown in. The last 2 containers which IMO is well overpriced failed to last like first 2 I bought.. same conditions.

Likely.. just my mileage. I failed to review org SEALNOT status and got left very high and dry.. way the hell in the boonies. I carp as I believe the gooooo-bers who mix the stuff do it more as a recreational pursuit.
If you leave a little Orange Seal out to dry, it's pretty obviously liquid latex with glitter added as a clotting agent.

With tires that don't seal so great against the rim (in my experience "tubeless ready" tires) yeah, Orange Seal will dry out in a few months, though I've never had to add any to a tire. I've change a few Specialized Roubaix Pros that were dry. A real tubeless tire such as the GP5000TL is a different story. The ones I've changed (6 or 8 so far) have all had Orange Seal left inside after 6 months.

Maybe how tubeless is great for some and not so great for others just comes down to what's in your area that causes punctures. For me it's those little wires that fray off of steel belted tires that are worn all the way down. Those seal up pretty much immediately. I suspect lower pressures seal better too. I know I see less weeping punctures at lower pressure.
MattTheHat is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 08:28 AM
  #34  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
If you leave a little Orange Seal out to dry, it's pretty obviously liquid latex with glitter added as a clotting agent.

With tires that don't seal so great against the rim (in my experience "tubeless ready" tires) yeah, Orange Seal will dry out in a few months, though I've never had to add any to a tire. I've change a few Specialized Roubaix Pros that were dry. A real tubeless tire such as the GP5000TL is a different story. The ones I've changed (6 or 8 so far) have all had Orange Seal left inside after 6 months.

Maybe how tubeless is great for some and not so great for others just comes down to what's in your area that causes punctures. For me it's those little wires that fray off of steel belted tires that are worn all the way down. Those seal up pretty much immediately. I suspect lower pressures seal better too. I know I see less weeping punctures at lower pressure.
From reading these threads, I also think that people's experiences with tubeless have much to do with whether they understand (1) how to set it up, (2) how to maintain it, and (3) how to handle things when they have the rare puncture that doesn't instantly seal up.

If you don't know what you're doing, tubeless might not work well.
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 10-29-20, 08:35 AM
  #35  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,193

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4446 Post(s)
Liked 1,348 Times in 875 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
On todayís ride, I was twelve miles out and spotted glass shards on the shoulder and quickly swerved to avoid. After about 45 seconds it became very apparent I didnít successfully avoid one of them, after hearing a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh with each front tire rotation. The air was coming out so fast and loudly I knew the sealant didnít have a chance, but I have bacon!

Got off the bike and saw sealant coming out of the boundary between the tread and sidewall. In other words a sidewall puncture.
Seemingly a lot of these stories are often sidewall related. Just as frequently they're conti 5k stories. With propensity to wider rims, is there possibly something to it that the center tread width section (thickest part of tire) is insufficiently extending to the sides? IOW, I find it curious that some broken glass made it up to the side of the tire somehow to cause the flat.
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 10-29-20, 08:36 AM
  #36  
Aladin
Senior Member
 
Aladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Siberia West .. aka Central Wisconsin... USA
Posts: 309

Bikes: 2000 Litespeed Appalachian, 1998 Litespeed BlueRidge.. 1977? Schwinn LeTour 12.2 'Rain Daze'

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
If you leave a little Orange Seal out to dry, it's pretty obviously liquid latex with glitter added as a clotting agent.

With tires that don't seal so great against the rim (in my experience "tubeless ready" tires) yeah, Orange Seal will dry out in a few months, though I've never had to add any to a tire. I've change a few Specialized Roubaix Pros that were dry. A real tubeless tire such as the GP5000TL is a different story. The ones I've changed (6 or 8 so far) have all had Orange Seal left inside after 6 months.

Maybe how tubeless is great for some and not so great for others just comes down to what's in your area that causes punctures. For me it's those little wires that fray off of steel belted tires that are worn all the way down. Those seal up pretty much immediately. I suspect lower pressures seal better too. I know I see less weeping punctures at lower pressure.
Agreed.

5000's and S Pro 1's are my choices. Put a dose of my recent brew.. just what's on hand.. Berryman's (Junk) for the base, good dose of E wood glue and a little H20 to right viscosity. Where I'm going.. dose in front road is holding surprisingly.. this a Pro 1 well worn off the back wheel... 12-1500 rear and now.. whew.. at least 2000 front. And.. LOL.. that tire got a sidewall cut say 1/3" which I booted. All is well.. IMO excellent overall wear. I'll say 215ish lbs now.. kovid belly... --->no gym... too much idle time. So the front is carrying some load....

My 5000 is over 3,000 still shows wear indicators albeit very shallow.. all rear miles. BEST tube-ass made.. IME.
Aladin is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 09:46 AM
  #37  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,330

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20611 Post(s)
Liked 9,283 Times in 4,597 Posts
Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
Put a dose of my recent brew.. just what's on hand.. Berryman's (Junk) for the base, good dose of E wood glue and a little H20 to right viscosity.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 09:48 AM
  #38  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,360
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3120 Post(s)
Liked 4,203 Times in 2,123 Posts
Silly syntax, apart from hindering comprehension, makes folks wonder if they are dealing with an actual adult. Me thinks.....
shelbyfv is offline  
Likes For shelbyfv:
Old 10-29-20, 09:53 AM
  #39  
rsbob 
😵‍💫
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 3,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1568 Post(s)
Liked 2,940 Times in 1,670 Posts
Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
I only carry a cell phone. No tube, no inflator, no pump, no patch kit, no plug kit and no tire levers. Iím sure Iíll eventually need to make the call of shame, but so far so good in over 17,000 miles.

ok, have to know what kind of tires AND do you ride on city streets with glass and sharp pointy things?
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️



rsbob is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 10:05 AM
  #40  
bruce19
Senior Member
 
bruce19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,251

Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1638 Post(s)
Liked 1,123 Times in 657 Posts
Originally Posted by SalsaShark View Post
......Tubes for the Win!!!!!!
OTOH since abandoning tubes for tubeless it's been over 2 years and zero flats.
bruce19 is offline  
Likes For bruce19:
Old 10-29-20, 10:21 AM
  #41  
rsbob 
😵‍💫
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 3,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1568 Post(s)
Liked 2,940 Times in 1,670 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Seemingly a lot of these stories are often sidewall related. Just as frequently they're conti 5k stories. With propensity to wider rims, is there possibly something to it that the center tread width section (thickest part of tire) is insufficiently extending to the sides? IOW, I find it curious that some broken glass made it up to the side of the tire somehow to cause the flat.

i agree. It may have been purely coincidental about timing. Glass never migrates and I keep my front at 70-80 PSI and the rear about 85. I have read a couple of threads about sidewall issues on Contis. The thing is the site of the cut had a little flap suggesting a cut.
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️



rsbob is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 10:27 AM
  #42  
MattTheHat 
Senior Member
 
MattTheHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,385

Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 722 Post(s)
Liked 3,430 Times in 1,207 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
ok, have to know what kind of tires AND do you ride on city streets with glass and sharp pointy things?
I've run Specialized Roubaix Pros and GP5000TL, both in 32mm. The Roubaix Pros are thicker and less puncture prone, but don't seal as well to the rim (so they lose more air over night). They also have higher rolling resistance.

About 70% of my riding is on city streets, about 10-15% MUP. The rest is on a smart trainer and a little bit of dirt/gravel.

Most of what I pick up seems to be the little steel belted radial wires. They seal immediately...I don't normally even hear anything. I see a little glass, but it's already crushed up pretty fine, so those generally seal pretty quickly too. Those tend to weep sealant for a few days.

Sidewall cuts were an issue for me when I ran GP4000S with tubes. I assume that's still a problem with the GP5000TL, but I haven't have a sidewall cut yet.
MattTheHat is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 10:50 AM
  #43  
rsbob 
😵‍💫
Thread Starter
 
rsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 3,994
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1568 Post(s)
Liked 2,940 Times in 1,670 Posts
Stupid question time.... is there a special type of patch used inside the tire to seal the hole or do you use a standard vulanizing tube tire patch? TIA
__________________
Road and Mountain 🚴🏾‍♂️



rsbob is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 10:57 AM
  #44  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,330

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20611 Post(s)
Liked 9,283 Times in 4,597 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Stupid question time.... is there a special type of patch used inside the tire to seal the hole or do you use a standard vulanizing tube tire patch? TIA
There might be some special ones, but I've only ever used regular tube patches. I've only had to resort to them twice, but have had a 100% success rate.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 11:05 AM
  #45  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
Originally Posted by rsbob View Post
Stupid question time.... is there a special type of patch used inside the tire to seal the hole or do you use a standard vulanizing tube tire patch? TIA
Umm, why not try your tire plugs?
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 10-29-20, 11:08 AM
  #46  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,585

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2993 Post(s)
Liked 5,193 Times in 2,109 Posts
Originally Posted by walnutz View Post
I've read this a few times and can't make heads or tails of it, but you seem happy, so kudos!
Yeah, I'll have what he's having'. Better yet, make it a double!
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 10-29-20, 11:36 AM
  #47  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
This post is classic bf. OP fails to easily deal with a puncture, even though he has the tools. Then recommends that the rest of us consider carrying two tire pumps and CO2.

Hell, maybe we should all carry spare wheelsets, complete with mounted tires...?
Koyote is online now  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 10-29-20, 11:59 AM
  #48  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 10,360
Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3120 Post(s)
Liked 4,203 Times in 2,123 Posts
Don't forget the bacon....
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 10-29-20, 12:08 PM
  #49  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,330

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20611 Post(s)
Liked 9,283 Times in 4,597 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
Umm, why not try your tire plugs?
If there wasn't already a tube inside of the tire, that's what I'd recommend, too, but if he's going to have to futz around with removing the tube and whatnot, might as well patch it up.

Of course, we still don't have the full story - if it's a smaller cut (<1/4") and it's not sealing because he's using Stan's or the sealant is old, putting in some fresh OS and re-mounting them might be all that's needed.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-29-20, 12:37 PM
  #50  
Koyote
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 6,700
Mentioned: 35 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6076 Post(s)
Liked 9,210 Times in 3,981 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
If there wasn't already a tube inside of the tire, that's what I'd recommend, too, but if he's going to have to futz around with removing the tube and whatnot, might as well patch it up.

Of course, we still don't have the full story - if it's a smaller cut (<1/4") and it's not sealing because he's using Stan's or the sealant is old, putting in some fresh OS and re-mounting them might be all that's needed.
I was actually just wondering why he didnít use his tire plug in the first place, before putting in a tube.
Koyote is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.